Why do extremist give the EF and traditionalist a bad name?

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Peeps said:
I think we will see a much smaller, scaled-down, and less-elaborate Church in the years to come.
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Maybe “less elaborate”, but the church has been steadily gaining members over the decades and projections indicate greater numbers in the years to come.
 
Hereiam said:
why do extremists give the OF and those accepting Vatican 2 a bad name?”
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Only that this doesn t exist.
It is created in this bubble within CAF.
" Those accepting Vatican II" is among the most ridiculous descriptions of what happens outside this place in real life than can be heard of.
Hollow . Dated. Lost in who knows what time.
How many of us were brought up after it and how much does one have to endure as if we had been brought up in the " leftovers " of Catholicism.
Say it often enough and it becomes real. To whom? Where?
Almost surreal.
 
graciew said:
Only that this doesn t exist.
It is created in this bubble within CAF.
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You must be new here…this is an ongoing source of discontent between keepers of the Catholic faith, here at CAF…it is no better on one side than the other.
 
Not new. Just done with it here…
And to make it more difficult ,there are different characters posting anything but stumbling blocks to interesting conversations. Which there were,even among different backgrounds.
It is.no longer challenging here but tedious among infiltrates of all sorts.
This isn t even real out there.
I am in Texas right now. And when I am out in the streets I wonder where the nasty people are that I cannot find them.

That is what I see.
 
I believe extremes in any aspect of life are off-putting. I love the TLM, the old Roman Breviary, and even the Douay-Rheims translation. That said, I also love the new mass, especially when celebrated in Latin ad orientem. The Mass is a Holy Sacrifice, regardless of the language used or even the missal used. As long as it is said according to a form approved by the Church, it is the meeting of Heaven and earth. Instead of placing our preferences to the level of doctrine and dogma, we need to love our brothers and sisters and encourage them in the faith; letting them exercise the faith as they choose.
 
I think it’s for the same reason why extremists give the OF and charismatic Catholics a bad name.

Extremists are exactly that and they tend to be very vocal, controlling, and push their agenda hard.
 
Have you ever been to a solemn OF Mass celebrated with chant, polyphony, Latin, incense etc? I’ve been to OF Masses that are just as beautiful as the EF.
 
Yes, there are many very beautiful OF Masses.

I think perhaps the problem arises when the Mass is thought to be too much about the people and what they can bring, what they can contribute etc. When things focus too much on the people, things can end up being too much about the community rather than God. I think that is when the balance gets tipped and things go out of kilter.
 
Brendan_64 said:
I think perhaps the problem arises when the Mass is thought to be too much about the people and what they can bring,
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I don’t know. The thing I see as bothersome is too many options. If you call a parish office to schedule a funeral, they sometimes want you to choose readings and such for the Mass.

I remember doing this, and just telling the young lady that we are counting on the priest to pick something appropriate as he’s been down this road a lot more often.

Really, with funeral arrangements, the time, who the mortician is, what cemetery, are the kinds of details that need to be worked out. It becomes too complex to expect the family to decide on the Mass propers
 
I completely disagree with regard to funerals.

If the family does not want to be a party to the choices that is OK, and I am sure that the priest/deacon/layperson helping the family would be accommodating.
However, I feel that allowing the family some choices is a wonderful way to help honor their loved one.
 
CilladeRoma said:
If you read inter oeumenici specifically paragraph 91, you will find a direction that says altars should be built so that the priest may face the people.
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That is so when during the Latin Mass the priest needs to turn toward the people, he can. It is not an instruction for the priest facing the people for the whole Mass.
 
In response to the original question, Why do extremists give the EF and traditionalist a bad name: because people do not like hearing what they do not want to hear.

It is just human nature, if you do not like something someone is saying, attack the person, label the person and spread a bad report about them.

Also, people get set in their ways and do not want to be told what they are doing is wrong. Traditionalists have been trying to bring back the sacredness of the Mass for a long time but sadly the Mass has become about the people and the people do not want to give up what they have gained, whether it be right or wrong. The Mass has become worldly and EF and traditionalists point it out, so the traditionalists are attacked by the world.

Jesus said, if they hate me they will hate you.

Also, over the years people worked very hard to bring about much of the focus on the people at the Mass and they don’t want to see those changes changed or reversed.
 
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Augustinian said:
I remember doing this, and just telling the young lady that we are counting on the priest to pick something appropriate as he’s been down this road a lot more often.

Really, with funeral arrangements, the time, who the mortician is, what cemetery, are the kinds of details that need to be worked out. It becomes too complex to expect the family to decide on the Mass proper
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When my mother passed away choosing the readings and the hymns for me was the best thing. I was so grateful there were choices and in those choices there were thankfully some Catholic hymns because the majority of the songs on the list were protestant, she is in heaven, walking on golden streets or in a garden type songs. If there weren’t choices and a chance to pick Catholic hymns, those protestant in heaven hymns are what she would have had at her funeral and that would definitely not have been her choice.

It gave me the opportunity to give my mother a Catholic funeral.
 
Oh, really?

Then explain the bolded, please
  1. The main altar should preferably be freestanding, to permit walking around it and celebration facing the people. Its location in the place of worship should be truly central so that the attention of the whole congregation naturally focuses there.
Choice of materials for the construction and adornment of the altar is to respect the prescriptions of law.

The sanctuary area is to be spacious enough to accommodate the sacred rites.
 
That simply means that the priest should have the option to face the people. Celebrating the OF Mass Ad Orientem is completely acceptable. Pope Francis has done so himself (at the tomb of St JPII).
 
From what I understand it is a directive for the priest if he chooses to celebrate facing the people, not demanding he face the people.
 
But that is not what you said in your reply to me.

@twf and @phil19034, yes, I know that it is an option.

What I did in linking that document was to show that, in the Consilium set up after the Council, that was charged with putting the reforms into place, the idea that the altar to moved so that is Mass could be said facing the people, did indeed come from Vatican II. Nothing more, nothing less.

If you needed an example of why some people give a bad name to “traditionalists” you need to look no further than the responses to my posts about this. I posted Church documents that do exactly what many “traditionalists” say was never addressed at VII, and we still get arguments. 🤨:roll_eyes:
 
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