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Exorcist
Guest
Nope, it’s not that simple. I agree that a great many Catholic have no idea what the Mass actually is but there are a great many reasons why they are not in the pews on Sundays.
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Exorcist
Guest
I think a huge amount of the problem is that people, both clergy and lay really don’t want to think about the problem in any depth. I’ll bet less than 1/3 of those that posted actually worked their way through the entire flowchart.
There are a multitude of reasons why fewer people attend Mass. Far, far more then I listed in my opening posting yet most Catholics seem to want to latch onto one or possibly two underlying reasons and that’s simply not enough. One has to dig deeper.
I think this problem is time-phased too. In my case, my expectations at Mass have been dropping for many years. Things that just wouldn’t have happened in years past are now accepted.
There are a multitude of reasons why fewer people attend Mass. Far, far more then I listed in my opening posting yet most Catholics seem to want to latch onto one or possibly two underlying reasons and that’s simply not enough. One has to dig deeper.
I think this problem is time-phased too. In my case, my expectations at Mass have been dropping for many years. Things that just wouldn’t have happened in years past are now accepted.
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JillianRose
Guest
JillianRose;9722398:
The Shrine is great!! They are open late on Thursdays until 8. My 4 year old begs to go their all the time. He tries to carry the Cross!! LOL Every time he get mad because he can’t lift it!! ( Its adhered to the ground)Hey Everyone:
Here is my thought. I think it is plain and simple. I think as in any church, it is up to the Priest/Pastor. It is basic psychology. People get away with only what they are allowed to get away with. We have 4,000 members in our Church. We have 4 masses. The Priest does not allow “Lax” Catholics. Here is how are church is ran:
**I stopped by your Church a month ago was I was returning from Indianapolis. Actually my intention was to visit the Shrine. I had been listening to Relevant Radio and there was an advertisement. But when I got there at 5:00, the Shrine was closed.
But I saw this magnificent edifice to the west. Once I figured out how to get up there, I drove around. I will be back soon.
What a great homily from Fr. Maletta, although he crossed the line (which I admire).**
Fr. Maletta is also an attorney. He says what needs to be said. He tore down the house last weekend regarding the real presence. He dose not play. He is VERY magisterial.
I grew up in the Chicago -Northwest side. I went to Immaculate Conception. The principle was a Nun. I was so happy to find a school for my children that have Nuns.
stjohnparish.org/ Here is the link . They have a 24 hour Eucharist adoration in the old Long cabin down the road.
A catholic family donated that land and gave money to build that shrine. They got the idea from a shrine in Texas. Then Man, said " I have the means, God is pulling me to do this." It is so hilarious, we have these droves of people who come by the bus loads. One time a Calvinist Church came and said “wow, we loved it. The Catholic got the crucification right”. LOL WT-HECK?
BTW we get to keep your Mother of the Millenium. LOL We just have build her a home… Its just siting in our church parking lot!! LOL
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JillianRose
Guest
Well I love staying home. I love cooking and cleaning and letting my husband be the head of the house. Take a load of my shoulders. Oppression was bad then. We still have KKK in Indiana. They are a sick group of people. My Cuban grandfather had it real bad.Ahhh…going back to 1955- Cost of living- yes! Family values- yes! The way ethnic/racial minorities were treated then and how women were viewed- No! But I understand what you are saying. But I am derailing that great silverliner of a train with this
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brbt
Guest
I find that many who state the fewer catholics are attending mass do not have facts to back those type of statements. I have attended mass at many churches and the clergy readly state that those attending mass is on the increase. Before repeating that liberal line that fewer catholics are attending mass. You should really do independent research from the liberal media talking points.
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George_Stegmeir
Guest
I find it interesting that there was a lot of publicity about Mel Gibson being a very orthodox, traditional Catholic-and that his father was a sedevacantist.But those who think like that would shudder at the thought of Aramaic- if it’s not Latin, it’s a heresy
On a more somber note, there are people who think we haven’t had a valid pope since before Blessed John XX111 and that any Mass in a language other than Latin is invalid and blasphemous- they’re called sedevacantists and every once in a while, one will pop up here on CAF, trolling their propaganda
Funny thing, haaven’t heard anything about this since he was involved with a sexual scandal and his legitimate wife divorced him!
I realize we all are weak and sinful, but so much for so many who wear their religion on their sleeve, and try to benefit from how holy they are!
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AnnArbor
Guest
In October, parishes make a physical count of the people in the pews. That is where the numbers come from – and Mass attendance is indeed declining, as is parish registration. There are exceptions, of course, but the overall trend is downward.
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LightBound
Guest
And there’s nothing wrong with you wanting to stay at home. I was referring more to women that worked and made 3/4 or less of what a man did for the same job. . Or young ladies being told they could be clerical workers or hairstylists or if they wanted to go to college, it was to be a teacher or a nurse. Nothing wrong with any of those jobs or careers, but it’s nice to have other options if you need or wish to work outside the home. Life wasn’t as June Cleaverish as we’d like to thing. You are right about the oppression back then. Besides, I wouldn’t want to give birth like they did in the 1950’s, 1960’s, or the 1970’s. Racism was terrible. I can only imagine what life was like for your grandfather and anyone not white (or Protestant) in many areas. I probably ought to stop now, before I get an infraction for derailing a thread.
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coachkfan1
Guest
Well maybe if the laity raised their expectations then maybe these things wouldn’t be just accepted.
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brbt
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JillianRose
Guest
I had a thought. Maybe its also, because there are so many different Churches. If you don’t like the Catholic Church or any church, you can find a Church that fits you. Now a days its hard for a Catholic because the Churches teaches are not in line with secular views. You pretty much find a church for any one. Did you know for 33 dollars you can become an ordain minister? You can start your own church, not even have seminary training of any kind/ or denomination. You can twist the Bible to mean what ever you want, and believe me you will find someone willing to join. People that do go to church can pick a church that fits them. Its sad.
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brbt
Guest
AnnArbor,
I can tell you that where I am our attendance is up and and increasing in all the churches in our Diocese. We also have a great many other immigrant catholics that have not registered with their parishes and may never do so but that being said attendance is on the increase. I also recently attended mass at the church in another state which my wife and I where married and is not used the the parrish as a museum and the church has tripled in size and attendance. This is a trend that I am seeing up and down on the east coast and also on the west coast. So parish registration only reflects thos who willing register many immigrants still do not officially register for reasons only they can explain. There is also the migration of catholics who transfer from one parrish to another where move once they have been either transferred or they move for a new job. We also have an annual increase of many who have become catholics and I personnaly know of a very good friend who used to be a muslim and is not a devote catholic. So I do not take a great deal of stock in the tracking of registered catholics as a way of show the increase or decrease of those attending mass which in of it self is not always and tracking the attendance of those who are registrered at their parrishes. So those registration records are not scientific in terms of accuracy. Even the catholic schools are increasing in attendance in our diocese and each parrish that has schools is seeking to enlarge to accomodate those who wish to enroll their children in parochial schools.
I can tell you that where I am our attendance is up and and increasing in all the churches in our Diocese. We also have a great many other immigrant catholics that have not registered with their parishes and may never do so but that being said attendance is on the increase. I also recently attended mass at the church in another state which my wife and I where married and is not used the the parrish as a museum and the church has tripled in size and attendance. This is a trend that I am seeing up and down on the east coast and also on the west coast. So parish registration only reflects thos who willing register many immigrants still do not officially register for reasons only they can explain. There is also the migration of catholics who transfer from one parrish to another where move once they have been either transferred or they move for a new job. We also have an annual increase of many who have become catholics and I personnaly know of a very good friend who used to be a muslim and is not a devote catholic. So I do not take a great deal of stock in the tracking of registered catholics as a way of show the increase or decrease of those attending mass which in of it self is not always and tracking the attendance of those who are registrered at their parrishes. So those registration records are not scientific in terms of accuracy. Even the catholic schools are increasing in attendance in our diocese and each parrish that has schools is seeking to enlarge to accomodate those who wish to enroll their children in parochial schools.
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Exorcist
Guest
I tend to agree.
But it would be difficult. It’s long been accepted in my parish that the priest arrives 5 minutes before Mass, celebrates the Mass and then is GONE. Some stick around to shake hand before departing but not many.
I asked my pastor why fell into the same model as the last 5-6 pastors? He got defensive and I dropped it. Yes, there are a million excuses – he’s busy, hungry, tired, going to make a hospital call, etc.
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AnnArbor
Guest
As I said, there are exceptions – North Carolina, for example. However, the reality is that overall Mass attendance is declining, as is participation in the sacraments. Baptisms, marriages, confirmations are all in decline.
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paulrus
Guest
Not to be too blunt, but I just don’t buy it. I’m sure these people really believe what they’re saying, but I think many of them are fooling themselves or perceiving what isn’t really there. For example, “eliminate the extreme conservative haranguing”? Where are these people going on Sunday mornings? Not to most Catholic churches I’ve been to in the last 20 years. My guess is many of these people just don’t like being told that they’re wrong.
This looks like a list made by a bunch of entitled Boomers infected by modern liberalism who are upset that the Church is actually, you know, a church, and not a touchy-feely seminar where they can feel self-actualized, or some such nonsense. You see this in the words they use to complain: “insensitive” (aww, poor babies), “extreme conservative” (in other words, orthodox), etc. I’m sure there are some priests who actually fit these descriptions, but in my experience attending mass over a couple of decades in several different areas of the country they are few and far between. Unless the Diocese of Trenton is a hotbed of fire and brimstone preachers that I just haven’t heard about, then I don’t put much stock in these responses.
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Exorcist
Guest
One of the things that really saddens me is the gleeful, almost proud announcements of “my parish has X Masses every Sunday!” Just how is a parish supposed to be a spiritual home when it’s run like a multi-shift factory?
I wonder where that model even came from? Must be from the reduced tithing and clerical vocations compared to other branches of Christianity.
How nice it would be is a great deal more and smaller Catholic parishes were sustainable…
I wonder where that model even came from? Must be from the reduced tithing and clerical vocations compared to other branches of Christianity.
How nice it would be is a great deal more and smaller Catholic parishes were sustainable…
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grannymh
Guest
Of course, there are many reasons why Catholics avoid the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass Saturday/Sunday.
And yes, the solution is indeed simple. Priests need to teach the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass as part of their homily. Catholics in the pews deserve nothing less.
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grannymh
Guest
Not only did I read through the flow chart, I printed it for further study and sharing.
At this point, I am thinking of sending it to the Bishop, God willing and the creek don’t rise, and a copy to my home pastor, who recently devoted homilies to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass which included a diagram, given to the congregation, of the structure of the Mass. I am of the old school where one catches more flies with honey.
When a change is needed, it is important to point out the good which is being done. It is also important to offer a simple solution as a starting point, such as post 31. Prime the pump (the original idiom, not the current one) we used to say.
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Pug
Guest
Maybe more people in our area are living their life relatively happily without religion. They don’t perceive original sin as profoundly obvious and needing remedy. They can afford to do many distracting, fun things and don’t readily sense a deep lack in their life, the kind of lack that religion is designed to solve. Or, if they do sense something, they fail to see how religion applies to it, and so are not motivated toward religion.
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ByzCathCantor
Guest
Don’t know if there is anything to buy. The list is what it is, and people will feel what they feel whether that is misinformed, misguided, selfish or otherwise. The challenge of the Church and us as faithful is to now figure out how to soften the hearts of those who have fallen and draw them back. The first step is to listen. It seems the Bishop of Trenton was willing to do just that, and now must fugure out how to best address these points in a manner that is still faithful to the Church’s mission and teachings.
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