Why do fundamentalists believe the world is 6000-10000 years old?

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what evidence are you claiming as evidence,reliable evidence is what is called for,it is noted that for the dating methods 75% come out in favour of a young earth - twinc
Yeah 75% of the established scientific dating methods come out in favour of a young earth yet every branch of science agrees on a figure of 4.54 billion years. Guess there is a major cover up going on! Must be the same people involved in those fake moon landings!!!

Forget 75%, name me ONE established scientific dating method that returns a young age.
 
for the dating methods 75% come out in favour of a young earth - twinc
Evidence? References? Sources?

Here are some results for the Amistoq Gneiss:
Code:
Method              Age (billion years)
-----------------   -------------------
Rb - Sr isochron    3.70 ± 0.14
Lu - Hf isochron    3.55 ± 0.22
Pb - Pb isochron    3.80 ± 0.12
U - Pb discordia    3.65 ± 0.05
Th - Pb discordia   3.65 ± 0.08
Data from Baadsgaard (1973), Moorbath et al. (1975), Pettingill and Patchett (1981).

Where are your results? If your 75% figure is correct then I am expecting 15 dates for the Amistoq Gneiss of less than 10,000 years with references. Where is your evidence?

rossum
 
Ok lads, here is my position. There is a huge amount of evidence gathered by Protestant creationist scientists (some Catholic also to be fair) that show a young earth. There is a huge amount of evidence gathered by evolutionist scientists that show them an old earth. Let us admit few of these scientists are insane, both sides. This shows us that science sometimes is not a perfect discipline. Findings can be interpreted in different ways.

There is however for Christians, Jews and Muslems a second source of knowledge, revelation, their holy books. These book reveal the creationist position.

I am one of those who have studied both sides and have now found intellectual and spiritual truth in the creationist position.

Recently I have come accross an article written by a professor of Philosophy who has divided this problem into six theses:
** T = scvientific statement S = factual statement contaned in Scripture**

Thesis1: If T is not demonstrable, then accept S and reject T
T2: If T is demonstrable and demonstrated (proven) then accept T and reject S
T3 If T is demonstrable but not demonstrated, then keep S and pursue T as a hypothesis.
T4: All factual statements S are revisable in light of T.
T5: Certain factual statements S are not revisable in the light of T.
T6: Factual statements S have salvation value.


Now there are problems here. Many of you guys claim 'evidence for this and that but another called Stephen Hawking tells us in his BHofT:

‘Any physical theory is always provisional, in the sense that it
is only a hypothesis: you can never prove it.
No matter how many times the results of experiments agree with some theory,
you can never be sure that the next time the result will not contradict it.’

Now a Catholic who basis his or her Catholic faith on such limited human reasoning is subjecting the Catholic interpretation of all factual statements in Scripture to the mercy of possible error.

So I chose what the Fathers believed and Protestant scientists have shown me these beliefs also have scientific evidence to support it.

For me faith is superior to reason
For others reason is superior to tradition.

So lads, why do you make me out to be some sort of imbicile lacking in scientific know how?
 
Ahhh…so the current catechism is in error! Our recent popes of the 20th century are in error.

Burn me at the stake. The earth is not flat and the earth is not the center of the solar system. Oh my.

Because I believe in the awesome power of a God that stands outside of time and that billions of years is just a blink of an eye to him…cassini considers me to be a bad Catholic. He considers JP2 to be misinformed. As a matter of fact anyone that disagrees with him should line up along the atheist side of the wall. BLAH BLAH BLAH :banghead::banghead::banghead::harp:
What does the current Catechism teach regarding origins?

Share with me the year that it changed. Magisterial documents only.
 
Evidence? References? Sources?

Here are some results for the Amistoq Gneiss:
Code:
Method              Age (billion years)
-----------------   -------------------
Rb - Sr isochron    3.70 ± 0.14
Lu - Hf isochron    3.55 ± 0.22
Pb - Pb isochron    3.80 ± 0.12
U - Pb discordia    3.65 ± 0.05
Th - Pb discordia   3.65 ± 0.08
Data from Baadsgaard (1973), Moorbath et al. (1975), Pettingill and Patchett (1981).

Where are your results? If your 75% figure is correct then I am expecting 15 dates for the Amistoq Gneiss of less than 10,000 years with references. Where is your evidence?

rossum
just to keep it in the Catholic domain and not as just my views,clues and conclusions go to www.DaylightOrigins.com click on Ireland and then Age of the Universe and also inaccurate dating methods.Also go to www.SearchfortheTruth.net and click on audios on the subject and listen and learn not from me but from experts and specialists - twinc
 
What does the current Catechism teach regarding origins?

Share with me the year that it changed. Magisterial documents only.
I’ve looked in the CCC…there is quite a bit that includes the possibility that evolution was a mechanism for God.

I’ve also looked at a SSPX website traditio.com. They also include evolution as a possible theory.

Gotta run…but I will do more research for you.

Peace
 
Ok lads, here is my position. There is a huge amount of evidence gathered by Protestant creationist scientists (some Catholic also to be fair) that show a young earth.
Then PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE present this universally accepted scientific evidence, i refer you to my last post. I pity you that you don’t understand science.
 
Then PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE present this universally accepted scientific evidence, i refer you to my last post. I pity you that you don’t understand science.
so lets start with an all catholic domain at www.DaylightOrigins.com and then click on Ireland and then Age of the Universe and Incorrect dating methods.Also go to www.SearchfortheTruth.net -go to audio and listen and learn from at least five audio tapes playing just for you and others - twinc
 
I note that you have failed to provide 15 recent dates, together with references, for the Amistoq Gneiss. Your side seems to be lacking data.
just to keep it in the Catholic domain and not as just my views,clues and conclusions go to www.DaylightOrigins.com click on Ireland and then Age of the Universe
I assume you meant “Age of the Earth”, there is no “Age of the Universe” link. Reading the “Age of the Earth” link we find a particularly egregious example of the usual farrago of creationist PRATTs:

1 - Star Clusters
2 - Large Stars
3 - High Energy Stars
4 - Binary Stars
- All of these are the same argument, we see objects in the universe that are only a few hundred thousand or a few million years old. True. What your site uniformly fails to do is to show that those objects are as old as the universe, rather than younger than the universe. I can observe every human being on earth and none of them is over 200 years old. Does that mean that the earth is only 200 years old? Of course not. These arguments are equally ridiculous - didn’t you even check this rubbish before giving me the link?

5 - Hydrogen in the Universe - They quote Fred Hoyle against the Big Bang? What can I say, this is scientific illiteracy of the highest order. Fred Hoyle lost the argument between his Steady State universe and the Big Bang universe a long long time ago. The nail went in the coffin when Penzias and Wilson discovered the cosmic microwave background in 1964. 1964! Forty five years ago. This is scientific ignorance of a very high order indeed. This is the scientific equivalent of quoting an alchemist in a chemistry argument. Complete and utter rubbish - this item is an insult to its readers.

6 - Solar Collapse - Claim CE310: The incredible shrinking sun. More creationist misunderstanding of science. This site is really scraping the barrel here.

I am not going to bother with the rest, you can find most of them already refuted here: Index to Creationist Claims. Your site is a caricature of laughably bad YEC misuse and misunderstanding of science. It is so bad that even Answers in Genesis disowns some of its arguments. Look at number 17, the Moon Dust argument. Here is what that hotbed of evolutionist atheism Answers in Genesis has to say about that argument:Only a thin layer of dust covers the moon’s surface. However, this does not prove a young age for the moon. Before the Apollo lunar missions, a few scientists had predicted that a yards-thick layer of dust should have settled on the moon over billions of years.

Those predictions got a lot of press, yet further satellite measurements of dust in space indicated a much smaller rate of accumulation than previously assumed. This does not mean the moon is billions of years old; modern scientists cannot know the rate of dust accumulation in the past or the amount of dust originally on the moon. Therefore moon dust cannot be used as an age indicator one way or the other.

Editor’s Note: During the 1960s and 1970s many creationists adopted the “moon dust” argument based on early calculations by some secular scientists, but more accurate information is now available.

Source: AiG - Far Out Claims About Astronomy.
This point has been inaccurate for over thirty years, why is this website still promoting it? How do you expect to convince anyone with an argument that even Answers in Genesis rejects?

By now you should have some idea of the utter contempt I have for this appallingly bad website. It is a gross insult to anyone who reads it, whether creationist or not. If you use arguments from this site then you are going into battle armed with a peashooter. It is an excellent example of why I often accuse creationist websites of lying.

You have really shot yourself in the foot with this one.

rossum
 
I note that you have failed to provide 15 recent dates, together with references, for the Amistoq Gneiss. Your side seems to be lacking data.

I assume you meant “Age of the Earth”, there is no “Age of the Universe” link. Reading the “Age of the Earth” link we find a particularly egregious example of the usual farrago of creationist PRATTs:

1 - Star Clusters
2 - Large Stars
3 - High Energy Stars
4 - Binary Stars
- All of these are the same argument, we see objects in the universe that are only a few hundred thousand or a few million years old. True. What your site uniformly fails to do is to show that those objects are as old as the universe, rather than younger than the universe. I can observe every human being on earth and none of them is over 200 years old. Does that mean that the earth is only 200 years old? Of course not. These arguments are equally ridiculous - didn’t you even check this rubbish before giving me the link?

5 - Hydrogen in the Universe - They quote Fred Hoyle against the Big Bang? What can I say, this is scientific illiteracy of the highest order. Fred Hoyle lost the argument between his Steady State universe and the Big Bang universe a long long time ago. The nail went in the coffin when Penzias and Wilson discovered the cosmic microwave background in 1964. 1964! Forty five years ago. This is scientific ignorance of a very high order indeed. This is the scientific equivalent of quoting an alchemist in a chemistry argument. Complete and utter rubbish - this item is an insult to its readers.

6 - Solar Collapse - Claim CE310: The incredible shrinking sun. More creationist misunderstanding of science. This site is really scraping the barrel here.

I am not going to bother with the rest, you can find most of them already refuted here: Index to Creationist Claims. Your site is a caricature of laughably bad YEC misuse and misunderstanding of science. It is so bad that even Answers in Genesis disowns some of its arguments. Look at number 17, the Moon Dust argument. Here is what that hotbed of evolutionist atheism Answers in Genesis has to say about that argument:Only a thin layer of dust covers the moon’s surface. However, this does not prove a young age for the moon. Before the Apollo lunar missions, a few scientists had predicted that a yards-thick layer of dust should have settled on the moon over billions of years.

Those predictions got a lot of press, yet further satellite measurements of dust in space indicated a much smaller rate of accumulation than previously assumed. This does not mean the moon is billions of years old; modern scientists cannot know the rate of dust accumulation in the past or the amount of dust originally on the moon. Therefore moon dust cannot be used as an age indicator one way or the other.

Editor’s Note: During the 1960s and 1970s many creationists adopted the “moon dust” argument based on early calculations by some secular scientists, but more accurate information is now available.

Source: AiG - Far Out Claims About Astronomy.
This point has been inaccurate for over thirty years, why is this website still promoting it? How do you expect to convince anyone with an argument that even Answers in Genesis rejects?

By now you should have some idea of the utter contempt I have for this appallingly bad website. It is a gross insult to anyone who reads it, whether creationist or not. If you use arguments from this site then you are going into battle armed with a peashooter. It is an excellent example of why I often accuse creationist websites of lying.

You have really shot yourself in the foot with this one.

rossum
Excellent post! I only hope i can emulate your patience when confronted with such scientific illiteracy in the future,
 
I note that you have failed to provide 15 recent dates, together with references, for the Amistoq Gneiss. Your side seems to be lacking data.

I assume you meant “Age of the Earth”, there is no “Age of the Universe” link. Reading the “Age of the Earth” link we find a particularly egregious example of the usual farrago of creationist PRATTs:

1 - Star Clusters
2 - Large Stars
3 - High Energy Stars
4 - Binary Stars
- All of these are the same argument, we see objects in the universe that are only a few hundred thousand or a few million years old. True. What your site uniformly fails to do is to show that those objects are as old as the universe, rather than younger than the universe. I can observe every human being on earth and none of them is over 200 years old. Does that mean that the earth is only 200 years old? Of course not. These arguments are equally ridiculous - didn’t you even check this rubbish before giving me the link?

5 - Hydrogen in the Universe - They quote Fred Hoyle against the Big Bang? What can I say, this is scientific illiteracy of the highest order. Fred Hoyle lost the argument between his Steady State universe and the Big Bang universe a long long time ago. The nail went in the coffin when Penzias and Wilson discovered the cosmic microwave background in 1964. 1964! Forty five years ago. This is scientific ignorance of a very high order indeed. This is the scientific equivalent of quoting an alchemist in a chemistry argument. Complete and utter rubbish - this item is an insult to its readers.

6 - Solar Collapse - Claim CE310: The incredible shrinking sun. More creationist misunderstanding of science. This site is really scraping the barrel here.

I am not going to bother with the rest, you can find most of them already refuted here: Index to Creationist Claims. Your site is a caricature of laughably bad YEC misuse and misunderstanding of science. It is so bad that even Answers in Genesis disowns some of its arguments. Look at number 17, the Moon Dust argument. Here is what that hotbed of evolutionist atheism Answers in Genesis has to say about that argument:Only a thin layer of dust covers the moon’s surface. However, this does not prove a young age for the moon. Before the Apollo lunar missions, a few scientists had predicted that a yards-thick layer of dust should have settled on the moon over billions of years.

Those predictions got a lot of press, yet further satellite measurements of dust in space indicated a much smaller rate of accumulation than previously assumed. This does not mean the moon is billions of years old; modern scientists cannot know the rate of dust accumulation in the past or the amount of dust originally on the moon. Therefore moon dust cannot be used as an age indicator one way or the other.

Editor’s Note: During the 1960s and 1970s many creationists adopted the “moon dust” argument based on early calculations by some secular scientists, but more accurate information is now available.

Source: AiG - Far Out Claims About Astronomy.
This point has been inaccurate for over thirty years, why is this website still promoting it? How do you expect to convince anyone with an argument that even Answers in Genesis rejects?

By now you should have some idea of the utter contempt I have for this appallingly bad website. It is a gross insult to anyone who reads it, whether creationist or not. If you use arguments from this site then you are going into battle armed with a peashooter. It is an excellent example of why I often accuse creationist websites of lying.

You have really shot yourself in the foot with this one.

rossum
will you refute thatyour beloved Big Bang has been given the boot and your geological column and other phony stuff to boot - back to the steady state and the drawing board it seems - twinc
 
will you refute thatyour beloved Big Bang has been given the boot and your geological column and other phony stuff to boot - back to the steady state and the drawing board it seems - twinc
For me…I have never refuted that God created everything. That he guides everything. Even the SSPX does not refute the possibility of evolution…as long as guided by God.

www.traditio.com
 
Well, everyone has forgotten about my post.

Do yourself a favor go but a high tech helium balloon. Let it float up to your ceiling and make note of the day when it falls to the floor.

Why are there helium wells if the earth is billions of years old?
 
Well, everyone has forgotten about my post.

Do yourself a favor go but a high tech helium balloon. Let it float up to your ceiling and make note of the day when it falls to the floor.

Why are there helium wells if the earth is billions of years old?
Because they’re trapped beneath bedrock. Just like oil. Just like magma. We don’t have lava spewing all over the earth. But it’s down there waiting to be released. Just like helium.
 
Excellent post! I only hope i can emulate your patience when confronted with such scientific illiteracy in the future,
I enjoyed writing it. A nice easy target to hit and an opportunity to say “egregious”. 🙂

rossum
 
will you refute thatyour beloved Big Bang has been given the boot and your geological column and other phony stuff to boot - back to the steady state and the drawing board it seems - twinc
Will you go away and learn some science please. While you are about it you should also learn that you need to provide references in the scientific literature to support what you are saying. You are badly out of your depth here.

Start by reading Penzias, A.A.; Wilson, R.W. (1965). “A Measurement of Excess Antenna Temperature at 4080 Mc/s”. Astrophysical Journal 142: 419–421.

Currently your arguments are about as effective as saying “Christians are cannibals who kill children and abort babies” without providing any support for those statements. In other words your arguments are completely ineffective.

rossum

P.S. John 6:53, Deuteronomy 21:18-21, Hosea 13:16 🙂
 
I enjoyed writing it. A nice easy target to hit and an opportunity to say “egregious”. 🙂

rossum
:D, you sir are a thinker, of that there is no doubt.

I wonder… Have you seen “The man from earth”? You may like it, i did.
 
While you are about it you should also learn that you need to provide references in the scientific literature to support what you are saying. You are badly out of your depth here.
This is a hard point to get across to most, but it is so true. For when you pass degree level you will never be taken seriously if you make an assertive statement without evidence or citation.
 
Because they’re trapped beneath bedrock. Just like oil. Just like magma. We don’t have lava spewing all over the earth. But it’s down there waiting to be released. Just like helium.
Helium is not just like oil, and it is not just like magma. It is not just the wells themselves. There are types of rock all over the world that have helium in them. The helium should have diffused out of these kinds of rock billions of years ago.

If you can not understand something as simple as diffusion rates, why bother discussing scientific matters?
 
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