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dizzy_dave
Guest
I never said or claimed to be a theological quiz. That’s why I’d like to hear the truths of the faith taught in the homily.
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dizzy_dave
Guest
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dizzy_dave
Guest
I like that idea. Do you know any good ones that would be for the Mass readings for each day? For example, some devotionals you can buy have the readings listed and printed out for each day, then they have a short “homily” for that days readings. Are there any good (faithful) ones on-line that I could print out?
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dizzy_dave
Guest
**Your post is very good except the last two words. GO SAINTS!!!Yeah, I know what you mean. It’s the same 'ol, same 'ol every Sunday. It sounds as if the Priest is reading a numbered list. I’m there for the Eucharist anyway. If I wanted preaching, I would still be at the Baptist down the street. But, as long as Christ is present in body, blood, soul and divinity; I will be there.GO COLTS!
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dizzy_dave
Guest
Huh?To each his own.I would find some of the above rather dry and boring.
Do you find the truths of the faith boring?
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EasterJoy
Guest
Do you mean this, then?In replying the the OPQ…
I suspect that there are two reasons.
**1. FEAR!
FEAR:
- Political correctness**
in 1970 about 75% of self professed Ctholics attended weekly and Holy Day Mass
TODAY THAT NUMBER IS LESS THAN 25%
in 1970 about 65% of ht same group went to Confession at least once per year
TODAY THAT NUMBER IS ABOURT 10%
[PEW REPORT 2008]
Political correctness is it’s own form of religion today. Noone dares “offend” anyone! That is why homilies stick so often to translating the Bible WHICH TOO IS NECESSARY, an pretty much avoid all attempts at teaching our Catholic Faith. It’s certainly a heck of a lot easier, and safe territory.
In the background of couse is the money issue.IT DOES TAKE MONEY TO RUN CHURCHES AND SCHOOLS. I wonder however if there are any stats on how many vocations come out of todays CS system? Certainly the education is better; BUT what about faith issues?
Support of Catholic Schools is often the major expense factor for a parish.
As a group [with notable exceptions like EWTN and the Extrodinary Form Churches] we are missing the boat on educating those of us in the pews on what Catholics Believe and WHY, what the Church teaches and WHY, and I see no signs of a change comming anytime soon.
Let us pray,
Instead of being about the art of how not to unintentionally or unnecessarily give offense (which would have been a good thing) what has become known as political correctness has instead engendered the widespread sense that one has a right not to be offended and at the same time has a right to take anything one does not happen to like as actually being offensive in some objective sense.
Likewise, the perhaps-useful concept of self-esteem has been turned into a right to self-satisfaction.
Because of these developments (by which I believe decent ideas have been diabolically twisted, in a very literal sense), it is nearly impossible to ask even Christians to consider that they need improvement in a direction not of their own choosing without offending them. If you offend them, they consider it both your (in this case, the homilist’s) fault and a legitimate reason to penalize the Church financially, in order to stop the “offending” behavior.
If so, I think you’re right about that.
I also think the art of oral rhetoric is not widely known or appreciated. Even when people know how to listen, few speakers know how to address them in an effective manner. I also think electronic media do wreck listening skills, making many people hard to reach via any kind of oral communication. More and more people are entertainable, they might remember very short, very catchy phrases, but they are otherwise, well, intellectually inert, particularly by purely oral communication.
Homilists have a tough row to hoe. I think the smart ones aim at the decent listeners, and let the rest catch up as they may. You don’t learn to listen when nobody ever expects you to listen. If you are constantly bombarded with watered-down messages, even an able listener will have a hard time continuing to listen. Given good oral presentations, people learn to like them.
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Elizabeth502
Guest
No, I didn’t say that. I would find a talk about abortion boring, same for birth control. (Nothing new there; nothing inspiring there; nothing for me personally there.) I would find most talks about doctrine or dogma interesting within the Mass (i.e., a “homily” – subject of thread) only in the context of how I put it earlier (when a logical continuation of a scripture passage or discussion of the saint celebrated at that liturgy), and later how benedictgal cited remarks by our current Pope (some of which were similar to mine, almost verbatim).
I could find discussions of hell or purgatory interesting or “dynamic” only if they related to the spirituality of the Word read in the Mass, and if there were a deeper discussion of sin than some list. (For example, the great homily today by Fr. Menezes during the EWTN Mass.)
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pro_multis
Guest
I have read Catholic Answers for years, but decided to get a user name to reply to this message.
I am in complete agreement with the origional poster and I am willing to take it a step further: I believe that priests who, for whatever reason, choose to deliver weak, watered down homilies, are costing many catholics their salvation. I also feel that esoteric sermons on “God’s love” or uninteresting stories about a priest’s childhood bore the people and do not contribute to their religous development. It is an exception when I hear a sermon that is instructive or memorable at a novus ordo mass.
A few weeks ago I attended Christmas mass at one of the most important sees in America. The archbishop literally read his homily verbatum, and it sounded like an academic work or an essay written by a seminarian. Long, completely uninspiring, and people around me were falling asleep. Think of the opportunity this priest had at that moment, and he totally blew it.
At a novus ordo mass I attened this year the priest lamented the decline in church attendence and wondered out loud what the problem was. I had too much respect for his office to give him a hint after mass.
As catholics, we have a limitless volume of subject matter that is the making of great homilies:
There are however, many catholic churches where you can almost guarentee a meaningful, timely, and educational homily…a traditional parish. I would urge any catholic here who is not satisfied with the homilies to begin attending the Mass of All Time. I cannot draw upon words from my vocabulary to describe it, so I won’t waste my time trying. I just want to put it out there that there is a solution to this serious problem and it could change your life.
I am in complete agreement with the origional poster and I am willing to take it a step further: I believe that priests who, for whatever reason, choose to deliver weak, watered down homilies, are costing many catholics their salvation. I also feel that esoteric sermons on “God’s love” or uninteresting stories about a priest’s childhood bore the people and do not contribute to their religous development. It is an exception when I hear a sermon that is instructive or memorable at a novus ordo mass.
A few weeks ago I attended Christmas mass at one of the most important sees in America. The archbishop literally read his homily verbatum, and it sounded like an academic work or an essay written by a seminarian. Long, completely uninspiring, and people around me were falling asleep. Think of the opportunity this priest had at that moment, and he totally blew it.
At a novus ordo mass I attened this year the priest lamented the decline in church attendence and wondered out loud what the problem was. I had too much respect for his office to give him a hint after mass.
As catholics, we have a limitless volume of subject matter that is the making of great homilies:
There is no excuse for a priest to give a flat homily. In fact, it is negligent.
There are however, many catholic churches where you can almost guarentee a meaningful, timely, and educational homily…a traditional parish. I would urge any catholic here who is not satisfied with the homilies to begin attending the Mass of All Time. I cannot draw upon words from my vocabulary to describe it, so I won’t waste my time trying. I just want to put it out there that there is a solution to this serious problem and it could change your life.
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benedictgal
Guest
Maybe we should print this out and give it to our pastors and parochial vicars:
chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/articolo/1341812?eng=y
This is an excellent article. Evidently, the lack of quality preaching is not an American problem. The Italians are also faced with sub-par preaching.
chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/articolo/1341812?eng=y
This is an excellent article. Evidently, the lack of quality preaching is not an American problem. The Italians are also faced with sub-par preaching.
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lutherlic
Guest
Interesting points but very sad statistics. I am not sure of the financial angle (and hope it is not the case).In replying the the OPQ…
I suspect that there are two reasons.
**1. FEAR!
FEAR:
- Political correctness**
in 1970 about 75% of self professed Ctholics attended weekly and Holy Day Mass
TODAY THAT NUMBER IS LESS THAN 25%
in 1970 about 65% of ht same group went to Confession at least once per year
TODAY THAT NUMBER IS ABOURT 10%
[PEW REPORT 2008]
Political correctness is it’s own form of religion today. Noone dares “offend” anyone! That is why homilies stick so often to translating the Bible WHICH TOO IS NECESSARY, an pretty much avoid all attempts at teaching our Catholic Faith. It’s certainly a heck of a lot easier, and safe territory.
In the background of couse is the money issue.IT DOES TAKE MONEY TO RUN CHURCHES AND SCHOOLS. I wonder however if there are any stats on how many vocations come out of todays CS system? Certainly the education is better; BUT what about faith issues?
Support of Catholic Schools is often the major expense factor for a parish.
As a group [with notable exceptions like EWTN and the Extrodinary Form Churches] we are missing the boat on educating those of us in the pews on what Catholics Believe and WHY, what the Church teaches and WHY, and I see no signs of a change comming anytime soon.
Let us pray,
Fear is a terrible reason not to firmly teach the faith, particularly at Mass. If only 25% honor their obligations (that 100% know), I would say they are the faithful and the faithful want the truth. Anything less weakens their faith and the Church.
Political correctness is always wrong in my opinion. It is used to stifle truth and to mold how people think. It is a devious and invaluable tool in Satan’s toolkit.
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EasterJoy
Guest
There are some really awful homilists out there. Some should know better, and some could do better. There is no doubt of that. Having said all this, though, I am reminded of a story told by Fred Rogers (aka Mr. Rogers).
He said that early in his career (I believe he was still in seminary), he was travelling and went to worship in a little church he had never been to. He suffered through the sermon, counting down all the ways in which in violated every rule of preaching. We are not talking about a guy who simply knew how to break the rules. This speaker was objectively awful.
Young Fred Rogers looked away from the pulpit for a moment and his eyes landed on a woman sitting near him. Unlike him, she had been transported. The Lord was speaking to her, using this awful sermon. Mr. Rogers immediately realized how important the attitude of the listener is, and tried to take on that attitude himself as a listener.
I have found great profit when I have taken his advice. If you are really listening, if you have the attitude, “Speak, Lord, your servant is listening”, you will be amazed at how God can use the worst homily you ever heard. It only takes a tidbit of gold, it really does. If your eyes are open, it will be there, that little sparkle.
If you are in a parish you don’t like, saddled with a priest you don’t like who celebrates Mass in a way you don’t like and who gives homilies that you don’t like to a bunch of lukewarm lunks whose presence could hardly be expected to be anything but a distraction to you, God can still use that. I am not saying that you have no right to find a more suitable parish, if the opportunity exists. But if it doesn’t, consider that you may be among those God will use as a pilot light of sorts. If you care, yet refuse to be lit on fire, then what hope is there for those who are too tired or apathetic to care? Yet God thirsts for all. If God wants to light you on fire, all you have to do is to try to stay tinder-dry, and not be wet blanket. God does the rest. There is a reason the rich are sent empty away. The rich don’t have that attitude that they will take what is offered. The poor are the ones that are open to the riches God has in mind.
Ask, and you shall receive. If you ask for a word, God will speak to you, if you are only willing to hear what He chooses to say (or how He chooses to remain silent), and do not insist on hearing what you had very much hoped to hear. With that attitude, though, I will wager that the words meant for you will leap out ten feet high, that you will hear words, spoken loudly, and perhaps more and better than you’d ever hoped.
Oh, and pray every day that God will give you a good priest, one who will offer the entire Mass well and who is a good confessor. You do want to ask Him for that, and as relentlessly as the old lady in the parable, who was after the corrupt judge to give her justice. It does far more good than complaining here. I expect you will be amazed.
He said that early in his career (I believe he was still in seminary), he was travelling and went to worship in a little church he had never been to. He suffered through the sermon, counting down all the ways in which in violated every rule of preaching. We are not talking about a guy who simply knew how to break the rules. This speaker was objectively awful.
Young Fred Rogers looked away from the pulpit for a moment and his eyes landed on a woman sitting near him. Unlike him, she had been transported. The Lord was speaking to her, using this awful sermon. Mr. Rogers immediately realized how important the attitude of the listener is, and tried to take on that attitude himself as a listener.
I have found great profit when I have taken his advice. If you are really listening, if you have the attitude, “Speak, Lord, your servant is listening”, you will be amazed at how God can use the worst homily you ever heard. It only takes a tidbit of gold, it really does. If your eyes are open, it will be there, that little sparkle.
If you are in a parish you don’t like, saddled with a priest you don’t like who celebrates Mass in a way you don’t like and who gives homilies that you don’t like to a bunch of lukewarm lunks whose presence could hardly be expected to be anything but a distraction to you, God can still use that. I am not saying that you have no right to find a more suitable parish, if the opportunity exists. But if it doesn’t, consider that you may be among those God will use as a pilot light of sorts. If you care, yet refuse to be lit on fire, then what hope is there for those who are too tired or apathetic to care? Yet God thirsts for all. If God wants to light you on fire, all you have to do is to try to stay tinder-dry, and not be wet blanket. God does the rest. There is a reason the rich are sent empty away. The rich don’t have that attitude that they will take what is offered. The poor are the ones that are open to the riches God has in mind.
Ask, and you shall receive. If you ask for a word, God will speak to you, if you are only willing to hear what He chooses to say (or how He chooses to remain silent), and do not insist on hearing what you had very much hoped to hear. With that attitude, though, I will wager that the words meant for you will leap out ten feet high, that you will hear words, spoken loudly, and perhaps more and better than you’d ever hoped.
Oh, and pray every day that God will give you a good priest, one who will offer the entire Mass well and who is a good confessor. You do want to ask Him for that, and as relentlessly as the old lady in the parable, who was after the corrupt judge to give her justice. It does far more good than complaining here. I expect you will be amazed.
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stbruno
Guest
thereasonforourhope.org/
Check out this priest’s Sunday homilies. I guarantee you willl agree, they do not stink. They are powerful and you can be fed. I appreciate Fr.Larry Richard’s. If you listen to his homilies, I guarantee you that will swiftly become a regular listener too.
And I totally agree with the above poster’s message…from the story of Fred Rogers. Powerful stuff. We don’t come to church to be entertained, we come to part of the body of Christ. We get out of it, what we put into it. Peace to you. Hope this Sunday you try some of these wonderful suggestions, to build your faith and to build your parish community.
Check out this priest’s Sunday homilies. I guarantee you willl agree, they do not stink. They are powerful and you can be fed. I appreciate Fr.Larry Richard’s. If you listen to his homilies, I guarantee you that will swiftly become a regular listener too.
And I totally agree with the above poster’s message…from the story of Fred Rogers. Powerful stuff. We don’t come to church to be entertained, we come to part of the body of Christ. We get out of it, what we put into it. Peace to you. Hope this Sunday you try some of these wonderful suggestions, to build your faith and to build your parish community.
E
EasterJoy
Guest
Going over the readings for the day is always profitable. Finding a homilist outside your own parish is a very good remedy for poor preaching, too. Those are nice even if you have great homilists at your place, but they are like a tank of oxygen if the preaching is poor.
I don’t mean to be hard on people who have to sit through awful preaching, particularly in those cases where the meaning of the Gospel is not only neglected, but distorted. That is a hard cross for anyone to bear. It is like any other suffering, though. Even though the suffering itself is not from God, resolving to let God make the best of it for you can have astonishingly wonderful results.
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Incomplete
Guest
Great reminder.
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CDNowak
Guest
To answer the question in the title thread, the same reason why Obama is considered a good speaker. We have abandoned the art of rhetoric, so most people don’t know how to give an effective speech, not just clergy. Of course there is the fact that the theology in many homilies is disappointing, and that is the bigger problem.
Many priests would benefit by ignoring the diocesan policy that says the homily should be 5-7 minutes based only on the readings for the day. If the priest is not a particularly strong biblical scholar himself, then this can be disastrous. Likewise if the priest is not a particularly good orator. A shorter homily, based on the Liturgy (The season, the feast) or on relevant events (natural disasters and the need for charity) is often the better route. It certainly will be better remembered.
Last Sunday I actually heard 4 great to good homilies, which had the great misfortune of being strung together into one forgettable homily.
Many priests would benefit by ignoring the diocesan policy that says the homily should be 5-7 minutes based only on the readings for the day. If the priest is not a particularly strong biblical scholar himself, then this can be disastrous. Likewise if the priest is not a particularly good orator. A shorter homily, based on the Liturgy (The season, the feast) or on relevant events (natural disasters and the need for charity) is often the better route. It certainly will be better remembered.
Last Sunday I actually heard 4 great to good homilies, which had the great misfortune of being strung together into one forgettable homily.
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Silence_Dogood_1
Guest
I’m sorry, did you say 5-7 minutes???
In most of our churches, a 40 minute sermon is considered to be on the quick end.
I know of several preachers who routinely go an hour and twenty minutes or more.
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jmcrae
Guest
Yes.
I remember those from my Protestant days, too - and yet, the Catholic Mass isn’t any shorter than any of the Protestant services that I used to go to. I finally realized that the reason is that we do so much more praying at Mass, than we used to do at our Protestant church.
The focus of the Mass is not on the preacher’s message, but on the Eucharist, and on the prayers.
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EasterJoy
Guest
Getting around to saying something in over an hour, while talking to people who expect you to talk for over an hour, is very much easier than saying something substantial in 5-7 minutes when half the crowd would rather you spoke for 3-4.
It is a well-known maxim in academic circles that it takes far longer to prepare five minutes of remarks than a fifty-minute lecture. The latter takes much less self-discipline. Think back to the Gettysburg Address, though. Two carefully-chosen minutes can be far more powerful and more memorable than two undisciplined hours.
There are homilists who could easily speak for 40 minutes and make it seem like five. Those homilies are heaven.
The worst are the ones that take 5 minutes, but make it seem like forty. Those are…well, Purgatory, anyway.
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Silence_Dogood_1
Guest
I just can’t imagine preaching a sermon in five minutes. I’d feel like I was neglecting my call to preach.
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japhy
Guest
There are plenty of Catholic sermons that last an hour or longer. I listen to one almost every day at 5pm on my local Catholic radio station. They just don’t happen in the context of the Mass.
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