"Why do I go to church?"

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Cari

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Hey’ yall,

A good friend of mine, who is not Catholic, has been struggling with religion for the better part of a year. During that time, she has asked me questions about Catholicism, been open to my responses (even ones she doesn’t understand/agree with), and has changed her opinion of Catholics from “legalistic, spiritually dead folks” to personally embracing some of Catholic doctrine.

Her current question, and one that I think could be a great turning point for her, revolves around the question of church. She currently attends an AoG church, which she has expressed constant and unwavering annoyance with the superficiality of it. She hates going to church, having someone ask her how she is, and then flee if she gives a real response (she is working through a lot of horrible pain from her childhood). When I talked to her about the Catholic notion of redemptive suffering, and being able to offer up our suffering for God to use, she was blown away. It spoke to a part of her that was always angry at God for “allowing” her to suffer through what she did as a child.
Never once in her years as a Methodist, or now as a Pentecostal had she ever found an answer to suffering.

Her reasoning goes like this: She gets “fed” by reading her Bible, by talking to God, by having conversations with me. What does she need a church for, particularly one that only wants to deal with people on a superficial level?

I need your help in reaching out to her. Here’s what we’ve covered so far, to help you in your suggestions:
  1. Catholics do not, for the most part, go to Mass to hear a “sermon series”, get swept up by the Holy Spirit through the music, or to chat with friends. While all this is nice, the primary purpose Catholics go to Mass is to receive the Eucharist.
  2. John’s Bread of Life discourse discussing the Real Presence has, in her mind, moved from “hogwash” (her word 8 months ago) to “a mystery she can’t wrap her mind around”. She is particularly held up by the “The flesh is no avail. My words are spirit and life” comment (sorry, not exact). She views this as Jesus saying that the Bible (His words) are what give life, the flesh (the Eucharist) isn’t what we think it is.
  3. We’ve covered the difference between Papal infallibility and the misconception of Papal impeccibility.
Ok, let me have it. How can I help move her from where she is, a place where she feels (though not maliciously, she’s honestly seeking the Truth) that solitary Bible study, and conversations with her well-meaning but nobody of a neighbor is a good substitute for Jesus’ Church?

p.s. She also, due to her shocking childhood experiences, has a very, very big problem accepting authority. 😉
 
She rejects the idea of corporate worship?:confused:

That is simply odd and unbiblical.
 
Hellisreal said:
She rejects the idea of corporate worship?:confused:

That is simply odd and unbiblical.
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She says she wants to get back to “how it was”, and then goes on to describe her version of “The Way”, when Christians worshipped in small, closely knit groups. Her ideal church would be one where 5-9 people got together regularly to talk about God, to read the Bible, and to grow in holiness together.

Hellisreal, could you list some scriptural versus supporting corporate worship? It might help, though I’ll need more to help her move past her romantic notion of “The Way”.

Thanks
 
Most simply she is fed by her conversations with you and her reading of the bible… that much is true…

I think your best response to her comment is this: Being “fed” by such things is like eating the crumbs that fall on the floor from the table. yes, it is something for the spirit, but it is hardly sufficient. The mass is not about superficiallity at all… in fact, when one understands it’s structure and origins they can realize how amazingly spiritual it is. The mass and sacraments are the feast, the banquet of God, at which catholics are not just fed, but filled by the Spirit of God.
 
Cari said:
Her ideal church would be one where 5-9 people got together regularly to talk about God, to read the Bible, and to grow in holiness together.
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forget scriptural references of this, even roman secular historians noted that by the 80 AD the basic structure of today’s mass was already the standard practice of christian (catholic) worship. The book “the lamb’s supper” details this fact.
 
Cari said:
She says she wants to get back to “how it was”, and then goes on to describe her version of “The Way”, when Christians worshipped in small, closely knit groups. Her ideal church would be one where 5-9 people got together regularly to talk about God, to read the Bible, and to grow in holiness together.

Hellisreal, could you list some scriptural versus supporting corporate worship? It might help, though I’ll need more to help her move past her romantic notion of “The Way”.

Thanks
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Sure, I will look them up. They would be revolving around the Eucharist and confession and when there is a problem to go to the Church. Its been a long time since someone I know has tried to say corporate worship is not needed.

In the meantime ask her who is to give her Holy Communion in a small close knit 5-9 people group? Would that person be an “elder”? Who would decide on the requirements?

It does not get more corporate than the Eucharist and confession, but I dont think I would go that route yet until she can see how wrong she is to think her romanticized idea is practical or does not present its own problems.
 
promethius95945 said:
forget scriptural references of this, even roman secular historians noted that by the 80 AD the basic structure of today’s mass was already the standard practice of christian (catholic) worship. The book “the lamb’s supper” details this fact.
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She’s interested in reading the ECFs, but the fact that secular sources (even as early as 50 years after Our Lord’s Resurrection) talk about the Mass wouldn’t interest her. She’d want to return to how it “immediately” was. I’ll point her in their direction, though, maybe it’ll hit a nerve!
by HellisReal
In the meantime ask her who is to give her Holy Communion in a small close knit 5-9 people group? Would that person be an “elder”? Who would decide on the requirements?
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This is part of the problem- she doesn’t have an entirely Biblical love of the Eucharist/Communion yet. Example- in her current church, they have it MAYBE once a month and- no kidding here- they are given a piece of bread AND A GRAPE. :eek:

I need more ammo showing her the importance of the Eucharist, since that’s what I keep telling her is the major point of Catholic Church attendence.
 
Okay, Paul says something good here:

Acts 20:28

1 timothy 6:12 also good because both faith and sins are covered here in the “presence of many witnesses”

I just skimmed your latest post and she likes ECF’s?

Tell her that the earliest of Christians worshipped the way they did mostly to avoid persecution and grizzly death and were not by choice hiding out in small clusters.
 
As a convert (who attended AoG’s for most of my teen/young adult years), my best advice is to find people who speak her language.

Tim Staples is a Catholic Apologist who is a convert, he is former Assembly of God - get some of his stuff - you listen/read it first then give it to her.

Because many A/G pastors like to draw on Hebrew/Judiac roots of Faith, some of Rosalind Moss’s work would be a good choice as well.

The ECFs are fantastic, you can find many references in the library here at Catholic Answers. Of course, giving her the set of Jurgins would be a really best friend kind of gift 🙂
 
Oh - and keep going to Redemptive Suffering. AG teaching is that if you are not healthy and happy (and rich) - bottom line, you do not have enough faith. The idea of suffering for a reason, well, it touches what that health and wealth “gospel” misses.
 
Cari said:
She says she wants to get back to “how it was”, and then goes on to describe her version of “The Way”, when Christians worshipped in small, closely knit groups. Her ideal church would be one where 5-9 people got together regularly to talk about God, to read the Bible, and to grow in holiness together.

Hellisreal, could you list some scriptural versus supporting corporate worship? It might help, though I’ll need more to help her move past her romantic notion of “The Way”.

Thanks
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you might want to invite her to work through, with you, a good Catholic study of Acts to look a “the way it really was” in the beginning. There is one from Emmaus road, there is the Ignatius 1-vol by Scott Hahn, and a good 6-week study on Acts from Loyola of Chicago, all inexpensive and good guides. She will probably be more amenable to going at this scripturally, and in a small group. All of these are ideal for small groups. One verse that comes to mind is right in the beginning chap 2 or 3 about how the disciples shared everything in common, gathered together to sing psalms, here reminiscences of Christ’s life from the apostles, share scripture, praising God, the apostle’s teaching, fellowship, and especially for the breaking of the bread. Acts 2:42-47
 
puzzleannie said:
you might want to invite her to work through, with you, a good Catholic study of Acts to look a “the way it really was” in the beginning. There is one from Emmaus road, there is the Ignatius 1-vol by Scott Hahn, and a good 6-week study on Acts from Loyola of Chicago, all inexpensive and good guides. She will probably be more amenable to going at this scripturally, and in a small group. All of these are ideal for small groups. One verse that comes to mind is right in the beginning chap 2 or 3 about how the disciples shared everything in common, gathered together to sing psalms, here reminiscences of Christ’s life from the apostles, share scripture, praising God, the apostle’s teaching, fellowship, and especially for the breaking of the bread. Acts 2:42-47
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This is awesome! I’ll look into these study guides.

Thanks everyone, keep them coming, please! The more suggestions I have, the more I’ll be able to organically bring them up during normal conversation.
 
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