Why do I here Catholics saying that non-christians can go to heaven?

[MaHeRsHaLaL]

I don’t understand, in that case, how you could argue that even the position you thought Catholics held was “harsh.” Why is it “harsher” for some to have a “free pass” and others to have a decent chance rather than for some to have a decent chance and others no chance at all (which you seem to believe)? Isn’t it in fact your view that is unbearably harsh? On face value, your accusation of “harshness” looks rather disingenuous.

What I understand the Catholic Church to teach (this is what I believe, but I’m not Catholic) is that God wants everyone to be saved and that we can trust Him to show mercy even beyond the covenanted means of grace, although those means of grace remain His chosen means and thus cannot be despised without grave peril.

Edwin

But isn’t there a universal law set down by God himself. Like John 3:5 that says all should be baptised. Can God contravene his own law?
And then in Romans1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse

Here it appears Paul is saying that no-one can use the excuse of ignorance.

 

[RC_Matt]

But isn’t there a universal law set down by God himself. Like John 3:5 that says all should be baptised. Can God contravene his own law?
And then in Romans1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse

Here it appears Paul is saying that no-one can use the excuse of ignorance.

John 3:5 has to be seen in light of the context. It doesn’t refer to the physical act of baptism, it refers to repentance, i.e., to be reborn in the spirit as opposed to being born in the (sinful) flesh. In other words, Jesus told the Pharisee Nicodemus that people can’t get to heaven unless they clean-up their acts.

In this section of Romans, Paul is expressing the incongruence of universal salvation and universal sinfulness. In Romans 1:20, he’s saying that all people have to do is look at the world and universe around them and the existence of God is pretty obvious. There’s no excuse for not being able to figure that one out, duh. There’s no excuse for human arrogance; again, this passage is part of a larger whole and has to be viewed in context.

I don’t know why anybody would think that non-Christians can’t get to heaven; that’s not what the Catholic Church teaches anyway. Put simply, virtually all of Jesus’ teachings revolve around “love your neighbor as yourself.” Of course it’s easier to follow that rule if you’re Catholic, go to Mass and pay attention; but even non-Christians who do their best to live their lives in that manner are “saved.” By implicitly following Christ’s teachings, they have implicit knowledge of Christ; i.e., they are implicit Christians. Therefore, Jews, Moslems, Mormons, Buddhists, Pagans, etc., can all be “saved.” Nothing else makes any sense at all.

 

[cradlecathlic26]

the Catholic church believes that salvation can happen outside the Church. End of story!

 

[ralphinal]

I know that the Catholic church holds tradition with the same respect as scripture, like the assumption of Mary, the perpetual virginity etc…

They are not in the Bible, but they are held as doctrine by the church.

Ok. It still isn’t really a part of this thread, but it is a question that you have. Basically, we have lots of reasons to put sacred scripture as an authoritative sourse. The Catholic answers website has links about it. There are threads on here as well. Even the Bible talks about holding to tradition as well as scriptures, though no where does it say scriptures alone.

 

[MaHeRsHaLaL]

John 3:5 has to be seen in light of the context. It doesn’t refer to the physical act of baptism, it refers to repentance, i.e., to be reborn in the spirit as opposed to being born in the (sinful) flesh. In other words, Jesus told the Pharisee Nicodemus that people can’t get to heaven unless they clean-up their acts.

In this section of Romans, Paul is expressing the incongruence of universal salvation and universal sinfulness. In Romans 1:20, he’s saying that all people have to do is look at the world and universe around them and the existence of God is pretty obvious. There’s no excuse for not being able to figure that one out, duh. There’s no excuse for human arrogance; again, this passage is part of a larger whole and has to be viewed in context.

I don’t know why anybody would think that non-Christians can’t get to heaven; that’s not what the Catholic Church teaches anyway. Put simply, virtually all of Jesus’ teachings revolve around “love your neighbor as yourself.” Of course it’s easier to follow that rule if you’re Catholic, go to Mass and pay attention; but even non-Christians who do their best to live their lives in that manner are “saved.” By implicitly following Christ’s teachings, they have implicit knowledge of Christ; i.e., they are implicit Christians. Therefore, Jews, Moslems, Mormons, Buddhists, Pagans, etc., can all be “saved.” Nothing else makes any sense at all.

I’m afraid I have to strongly disagree with your comments on John 3:5. There is a very clear distinction made throughout scripture between baptism and repentance. Had he been referring to repentance, he would have said repentance.

 

[Namesake]

:yup: My grandmother used to say, that we are" judged according to the light that we have".
There are some dear & wonderful people who have never heard the Name of Jesus, yet they are kind & loving, & serve God the best that they know how…Who am I, to judge them? That is left to God Himself…(And my grandfather liked to say, “I am glad **I **am not in charge of admissions to Heaven!”).
Also, when you read about stories of missionaries who reach parts of the world where, as I say, no one has heard of Jesus, time & again, people will say, “I knew that there had to be a God like that!” or, “Oh, yes, but I never knew His Name was Jesus; just that God loved us all so much!!”
Somehow, there is put into hearts, the knowledge of God, however dim that light may be, and the God Who knows all hearts will judge them. Not me, not you, not anyone… except the One with the nail-scarred hands…

My father-in-law has read the Bible many times, cover to cover. He goes to church very faithfully. He and I talk about Christianity often. He is the best man you could ever imagine. Faithful husband, loving father, ethical business man, supporter of the community.

But, he just can’t believe that Jesus will save his soul and that he can get to heaven.

I believe that he will be in heaven. God would not forsake such a loving and kind soul. At least not the God that I believe in.