Why do I keep reading posts about married catholics getting formally annulled?

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I tried sending you a PM - but the person that answers those questions within the group that is more than qualified to do it.
Joanofarc2008, sorry I never turned that feature on. Maybe I am thinking one way and you are thinking another, because I do not have a clue as to what you are saying. It’s ok. I will get the question answered at some point.
 
That is exactly my point about porn. It is a hidden addiction. I think that many women don’t realize how addicted their boyfriends, fiance, or husbands really are. I do have experienc working with groups of men who are sexually addicted in one way or another. To the man, they all say that they thought their addiction woud go away when they get married but the only thing marriage did was make them hide their addiction more.

I think it impossible for a porn addict to develop a clear understanding of what marriage really is - self sacrificing, self donating love. Or at a minimum, if they understand it intellectually, their addiction prevents them from living it out fully in the context of a relationship between husband and wife. A porn addict is instead consumed with self gratification. For him it is impossible to give of himself. The very nature of the addiction is an inability to resist any urge to gratify onself.

One would not expect a drug addict to have a mature undertanding of the nature of marriage nor the ability to live it out. I think porn addicts are just as bad.

-Tim-
I’m not sure about porn. I’m not a canon lawyer, but it might be grounds for a degree of nullity if:

**Grave lack of discretionary judgment concerning essential matrimonial rights and duties (Canon 1095, 20)

You or your spouse was affected by some serious circumstances or factors that made you unable to judge or evaluate either the decision to marry or the ability to create a true marital relationship. **

Psychic-natured incapacity to assume marital obligations (Canon 1095, 30)

You or your spouse, at the time of consent, was unable to fulfill the obligations of marriage because of a serious psychological disorder or other condition.


I see two problems, but it would depend on how the Church viewed porn addiction both prior and continuing.

However, I think a priest would counsel that the man get help and the couple enter into counseling – before resorting to seeking divorce and then annulment.

I do not believe the Church is trying to get into the annulment business, as the easy way out of every rough patch, so that we can pick and choose the terms – rather the Church sometimes recognizes that hidden impediments might have existed before the marriage took place. The purpose of the annulment is to be free to marry in the Church. Sometimes marriages break down and the Church will not find grounds to issue a decree of nullity.

If one divorces, then they cannot remarry or enter into any relationship without the decree of nullity. It happens.
 
Having premarital sex with one person within a relationship, especially with someone who you think you will marry, although sinful, does not automatically make you open to having sex with multiple partners while in a relationship.

:confused:
Does the inablity to control onself before marriage automatically mean that they will not be able to control themselves in marriage? No, absolutely not. It’s not automatic. You are right. Thank you.

But can it indicate a lack of self control?

Look at it the other way. What a great display of self control and what a beautiful gift it would be to have a boyfriend or girlfriend who loved you so much that she held herself pure just for you, just for your wedding night. What a gift that would be. No? I know the idea seems like a fairy tale or an absurdity nowadays.

-Tim-
 
There are those who God does break through and they start to actively fight via confession and prayer and service to others…etc. It is a lifelong battle, but when they fall they go to confession and progress in faithfulness. It has to be a choice with firm resolve though. Growth. If it remains totally hidden, then it needs exposure, but not necessarily to the entire world, but to the spouse, and a priest, and friends who are on the same journey.
 
The rules are so strict regarding annulment! So how is it so common that married catholics get annulments?
I am just joining the Church and have been married twice previously. I lived a godless life up until now and I am getting annulments for my previous marriages.

The grounds for annulment for both were pretty straight forward and are expected to take anywhere from six to nine months to complete. My first marriage was more of a spur of the moment thing to obtain benefits. I think that annulment fell under “No intention, when marrying, to contract a lifelong relationship” (I don’t have the paperwork in front of me to verify). My second wife never wanted children, so that one fell under “The intention, when marrying, to never have children”.

The point of me sharing this with you is that people like me skew the numbers. The Catholic Church is granting me annulments for marriages that occurred between two people that were not a member of any church and got married in front of a justice of the peace. It’s not the Catholic Church’s fault that I got a divorce and if I was a Catholic when I was considering marriage I would have never got married (or left the Church to get married). I like that the Catholic Church makes it painful to get an annulment (and it is painful to write a 15 page report on why your marriage failed) and places so much emphasis on making sure the union is right before giving its blessing. I think if more people did this process, there would be fewer divorces.

I would suppose that if I or my previous wives were Catholic and got married in the Church, it would have been much harder to get an annulment because we would have make a case that one of us was mentally incapable to fulfill the marriage obligations. I have heard cases like that taking years to be granted.
 
The rules are so strict regarding annulment! So how is it so common that married catholics get annulments?

What am I missing from this picture? It just seems like we have so many faithful catholics working so hard to legitimize divorce, and it’s really making me wonder how it’s even occurring through the church.
you hear about Catholics seeking annulments because you hear about Catholics getting divorced. We have NO faithful Catholics working to legitimize divorce and that is NOT what annulment is. Ask your diocese for their publication or guidelines on the topic or get a copy of the book Annulment, the Marriage that Wasn’t so you can clear up your misconceptions.
 
I tried to find some hard numbers on the number of Catholic marriages annually, to compare with annulment stats, but have struck out so far. But I did find a report from 2007, commissioned by the USCCB and done by Georgetown U, called “Marriage in the Catholic Church”. It is 187 pages of interesting info about adult Catholics and matrimony. Here are a few items that might address the topic of this discussion.

The report confirms other info that I have seen that about 20% of Catholics end up divorced. That varies by generation and other demographics. But only 15% of divorced Catholics have sought an annulment, and about half of those were granted. The report doesn’t clarify what “sought an annulment” means, so some of those may be people who inquired, who perhaps started the process and did not complete it, or were advised against it. But the numbers seem to indicate that** only about 1%-2% of Catholic marriages are being annulled. **

76% of the adult Catholics surveyed believed divorce was acceptable in “some cases”. The top circumstances were: ** physical abuse (96%), Emotional Abuse (92%), Infidelity (85%), Addictive behavior (72%**). However, fewer than 30% agreed that divorce is usually the best solution. 71% agreed, “at least somewhat, that couples do not take marriage seriously enough when divorce is easily available”.

**Adequate preparation may be a big issue in the failure of marriages. The report says that “divorced and separated Catholics are less likely to have discussed each of these topics prior to marriage”: trust and commitment, openness to having children, intimacy or sexuality, family backgrounds or history, and parenting approaches. **

We have often heard the “old saw” about communicating, but this survey indicates that this is important. Currently married Catholics label “Finances” as the most challenging aspect of their relationship, and place communication issues third, and trust & commitment issues 8th. For divorced Catholics, communication issues was number one, followed by** trust & commitment issues**. This may help indicate what goes into the make-up of a successful and happy marriage vs. a problem marriage, with trust and honest and open communication with your spouse very important factors.

From my point of view as a Boomer, I would say that many young people in my day entered into marriage prematurely. I can think of several of my peers who married quite quickly, with little real preparation, and most of those marriages failed. They were probably doomed from the beginning, as the marriages were not built on a strong foundation.

I think the preparation for marriage today is better, but there are still other factors. On this site and other forums we hear of people who “find out” things about their spouse they didn’t know, or learn that they do not agree on basic and critical issues. That truly amazes me, and I wonder how they could have entered into the Sacrament of Marriage so unaware. In those cases, divorce, often followed by an annulment, are the only way to rectify the problem.

Another point to consider is that the Catholic church grants annulments for marriages that were entered into outside the Catholic church, as we read in the post from*** Dannel11***. This often occurs so that the Catholic party in the prior marriage CAN get married in the Church, a good thing.

The reason we read posts from and about married Catholics and annulments is, I think, because it is such a traumatic situation and process, and the posters are seeking whatever help they can get from fellow Catholics. They are not taking it lightly.

Now if only we could get more people to take marriage that seriously.
 
I tried to find some hard numbers on the number of Catholic marriages annually, to compare with annulment stats, but have struck out so far. But I did find a report from 2007, commissioned by the USCCB and done by Georgetown U, called “Marriage in the Catholic Church”. It is 187 pages of interesting info about adult Catholics and matrimony. Here are a few items that might address the topic of this discussion.

The report confirms other info that I have seen that about 20% of Catholics end up divorced. That varies by generation and other demographics. But only 15% of divorced Catholics have sought an annulment, and about half of those were granted. The report doesn’t clarify what “sought an annulment” means, so some of those may be people who inquired, who perhaps started the process and did not complete it, or were advised against it. But the numbers seem to indicate that** only about 1%-2% of Catholic marriages are being annulled. **

76% of the adult Catholics surveyed believed divorce was acceptable in “some cases”. The top circumstances were: ** physical abuse (96%), Emotional Abuse (92%), Infidelity (85%), Addictive behavior (72%**). However, fewer than 30% agreed that divorce is usually the best solution. 71% agreed, “at least somewhat, that couples do not take marriage seriously enough when divorce is easily available”.

**Adequate preparation may be a big issue in the failure of marriages. The report says that “divorced and separated Catholics are less likely to have discussed each of these topics prior to marriage”: trust and commitment, openness to having children, intimacy or sexuality, family backgrounds or history, and parenting approaches. **

We have often heard the “old saw” about communicating, but this survey indicates that this is important. Currently married Catholics label “Finances” as the most challenging aspect of their relationship, and place communication issues third, and trust & commitment issues 8th. For divorced Catholics, communication issues was number one, followed by** trust & commitment issues**. This may help indicate what goes into the make-up of a successful and happy marriage vs. a problem marriage, with trust and honest and open communication with your spouse very important factors.

From my point of view as a Boomer, I would say that many young people in my day entered into marriage prematurely. I can think of several of my peers who married quite quickly, with little real preparation, and most of those marriages failed. They were probably doomed from the beginning, as the marriages were not built on a strong foundation.

I think the preparation for marriage today is better, but there are still other factors. On this site and other forums we hear of people who “find out” things about their spouse they didn’t know, or learn that they do not agree on basic and critical issues. That truly amazes me, and I wonder how they could have entered into the Sacrament of Marriage so unaware. In those cases, divorce, often followed by an annulment, are the only way to rectify the problem.

Another point to consider is that the Catholic church grants annulments for marriages that were entered into outside the Catholic church, as we read in the post from*** Dannel11***. This often occurs so that the Catholic party in the prior marriage CAN get married in the Church, a good thing.

The reason we read posts from and about married Catholics and annulments is, I think, because it is such a traumatic situation and process, and the posters are seeking whatever help they can get from fellow Catholics. They are not taking it lightly.

Now if only we could get more people to take marriage that seriously.
👍
 
…The reason we read posts from and about married Catholics and annulments is, I think, because it is such a traumatic situation and process, and the posters are seeking whatever help they can get from fellow Catholics. They are not taking it lightly.

Now if only we could get more people to take marriage that seriously.
What an excellent post!! :tiphat:
 
I tried to find some hard numbers on the number of Catholic marriages annually, to compare with annulment stats, but have struck out so far. But I did find a report from 2007, commissioned by the USCCB and done by Georgetown U, called “Marriage in the Catholic Church”. It is 187 pages of interesting info about adult Catholics and matrimony. Here are a few items that might address the topic of this discussion.

The report confirms other info that I have seen that about 20% of Catholics end up divorced. That varies by generation and other demographics. But only 15% of divorced Catholics have sought an annulment, and about half of those were granted. The report doesn’t clarify what “sought an annulment” means, so some of those may be people who inquired, who perhaps started the process and did not complete it, or were advised against it. But the numbers seem to indicate that** only about 1%-2% of Catholic marriages are being annulled. **

76% of the adult Catholics surveyed believed divorce was acceptable in “some cases”. The top circumstances were: ** physical abuse (96%), Emotional Abuse (92%), Infidelity (85%), Addictive behavior (72%**). However, fewer than 30% agreed that divorce is usually the best solution. 71% agreed, “at least somewhat, that couples do not take marriage seriously enough when divorce is easily available”.

**Adequate preparation may be a big issue in the failure of marriages. The report says that “divorced and separated Catholics are less likely to have discussed each of these topics prior to marriage”: trust and commitment, openness to having children, intimacy or sexuality, family backgrounds or history, and parenting approaches. **

We have often heard the “old saw” about communicating, but this survey indicates that this is important. Currently married Catholics label “Finances” as the most challenging aspect of their relationship, and place communication issues third, and trust & commitment issues 8th. For divorced Catholics, communication issues was number one, followed by** trust & commitment issues**. This may help indicate what goes into the make-up of a successful and happy marriage vs. a problem marriage, with trust and honest and open communication with your spouse very important factors.

From my point of view as a Boomer, I would say that many young people in my day entered into marriage prematurely. I can think of several of my peers who married quite quickly, with little real preparation, and most of those marriages failed. They were probably doomed from the beginning, as the marriages were not built on a strong foundation.

I think the preparation for marriage today is better, but there are still other factors. On this site and other forums we hear of people who “find out” things about their spouse they didn’t know, or learn that they do not agree on basic and critical issues. That truly amazes me, and I wonder how they could have entered into the Sacrament of Marriage so unaware. In those cases, divorce, often followed by an annulment, are the only way to rectify the problem.

Another point to consider is that the Catholic church grants annulments for marriages that were entered into outside the Catholic church, as we read in the post from*** Dannel11***. This often occurs so that the Catholic party in the prior marriage CAN get married in the Church, a good thing.

The reason we read posts from and about married Catholics and annulments is, I think, because it is such a traumatic situation and process, and the posters are seeking whatever help they can get from fellow Catholics. They are not taking it lightly.

Now if only we could get more people to take marriage that seriously.
👍👍👍
 
The rules are so strict regarding annulment! So how is it so common that married catholics get annulments?

What am I missing from this picture? It just seems like we have so many faithful catholics working so hard to legitimize divorce, and it’s really making me wonder how it’s even occurring through the church.
The Catholic message is finally starting to make sense, to many catholics that have heterodox views. They are finally paying attention to what the Catholic Church teaches in i proposing the things taught in scripture and tradition.

God Bless:)
 
I guess I feel as if the ease at which some are granted annulments diminishes my own marriage in a way. I mean, what is the deal with a psychiatric impediment? I can understand if someone is batcrap crazy, but what about depression, which just about everyone seems to have nowadays?

For example, my dad died when I was 16 and I have been on antidepressants for about half my life. I’m pretty sure I could make some sort of case for an annulment based only on this criteria, even though I would NEVER want to do so and am very happily married to a man I deeply love. It bothers me in a way that if I tried, these facts alone might be enough to convince the church that my marriage isn’t real, when really, it is one of the MOST real things I have ever done. Does the simple fact that I would never choose to seek an annulment indicate the true validity of my marriage?

Am I wrong? Oversimplifying?
 
I guess I feel as if the ease at which some are granted annulments diminishes my own marriage in a way. I mean, what is the deal with a psychiatric impediment? I can understand if someone is batcrap crazy, but what about depression, which just about everyone seems to have nowadays?

For example, my dad died when I was 16 and I have been on antidepressants for about half my life. I’m pretty sure I could make some sort of case for an annulment based only on this criteria, even though I would NEVER want to do so and am very happily married to a man I deeply love. It bothers me in a way that if I tried, these facts alone might be enough to convince the church that my marriage isn’t real, when really, it is one of the MOST real things I have ever done. Does the simple fact that I would never choose to seek an annulment indicate the true validity of my marriage?

Am I wrong? Oversimplifying?
You are oversimplifying. It has had no effect on your marriage. Now say that at the time of your marriage you were gravely depressed, did not tell your husband that you were suffering from depression and married because you thought you couldn’t do any better after two suicide attempts. Maybe you realized he added stability and would take care of you You started getting treatment realized what a horrid mistake you had made because you never really loved him and quickly found yourself attracted to different men you would meet further complicating your marriage. Maybe that would be a case for how depression could have effected consent.
 
I guess I feel as if the ease at which some are granted annulments diminishes my own marriage in a way. I mean, what is the deal with a psychiatric impediment? I can understand if someone is batcrap crazy, but what about depression, which just about everyone seems to have nowadays?

For example, my dad died when I was 16 and I have been on antidepressants for about half my life. I’m pretty sure I could make some sort of case for an annulment based only on this criteria, even though I would NEVER want to do so and am very happily married to a man I deeply love. It bothers me in a way that if I tried, these facts alone might be enough to convince the church that my marriage isn’t real, when really, it is one of the MOST real things I have ever done. Does the simple fact that I would never choose to seek an annulment indicate the true validity of my marriage?

Am I wrong? Oversimplifying?
Annulments are only for those who have divorced, which clues into the fact that something was wrong, possibly, from the beginning. You are happy. It doesn’t diminish the grace you have, but I get what you are saying. This very thing is on my mind in my discernment right now…and it messes with me. With Anti-depressants or without depressed folks have certain troubles others don’t have…emotional, mental and physical.

as a person who experiences depression, unhappiness can be a depression symptom and lead to divorce because you might focus too much on your symptoms…and think you are really unhappy with this person maybe because you cannot percieve they would love this depressed mess you are at the moment…a slippery slope if you are not openly talking about it and working on it. I think often depressed folk end up divorced because they think they are unlovable…while the spouse is thinking…what can I do to help, I love you so much…on the other hand, often depression isn’t understood by the other person, and they never realized it would be so difficult and they themselves are not mature enough to handle loving another soul through sickness and health.

now I think I am starting to ramble.
 
I guess I feel as if the ease at which some are granted annulments diminishes my own marriage in a way. I mean, what is the deal with a psychiatric impediment? I can understand if someone is batcrap crazy, but what about depression, which just about everyone seems to have nowadays?

For example, my dad died when I was 16 and I have been on antidepressants for about half my life. I’m pretty sure I could make some sort of case for an annulment based only on this criteria, even though I would NEVER want to do so and am very happily married to a man I deeply love. It bothers me in a way that if I tried, these facts alone might be enough to convince the church that my marriage isn’t real, when really, it is one of the MOST real things I have ever done. Does the simple fact that I would never choose to seek an annulment indicate the true validity of my marriage?

Am I wrong? Oversimplifying?
besides to even really think about an annulment you have to be divorced…if you are happy, don’t worry about it.
 
The rules are so strict regarding annulment! So how is it so common that married catholics get annulments?

What am I missing from this picture? It just seems like we have so many faithful catholics working so hard to legitimize divorce, and it’s really making me wonder how it’s even occurring through the church.
Just because the rules are “strict” does not mean that you won’t see “many” posts.
 
I But I personally can’t see how I can demand sex from my girlfriend before marriage and if she consents, how I can then move forward into marriage with the expectation that she remain faithful. If she cannot control herself outside of marriage, what makes me think she will be able to within marriage?
a bigger question is, whether the [hypothetical] man in this case is mature enough for marriage and even understands what commitment and fidelity mean, and is thinking of anything other than his own immediate gratification, which certainly bodes ill for a healthy marriage based on true intimacy and communication, and may definitely interfere with full free will consent.
quote=LaSainte;8911814]I guess I feel as if the ease at which some are granted annulments diminishes my own marriage in a way. I mean, what is the deal with a psychiatric impediment? I can understand if someone is batcrap crazy, but what about depression, which just about everyone seems to have nowadays?
and believe me I deal with couples in this situation all the time and there is NOTHING easy about the annulment process (although to be fair it is less intimidating than many people fear). It is a remedy in canon law that is a right of all Catholics to seek who feel they need it. I am sorry you had a bad experience with your father, but that sad fact has nothing to do with the reality of someone who has entered into marriage with someone who has a personality disorder that was not evident at the time, which renders him incapable of fulfilling the vows and demands of marriage.
 
I guess I feel as if the ease at which some are granted annulments diminishes my own marriage in a way. I mean, what is the deal with a psychiatric impediment? I can understand if someone is batcrap crazy, but what about depression, which just about everyone seems to have nowadays?
I also prefer the idea of working without a net because divorce and easy annulments are contagious. It gives people the illusion that they will be able to solve their problems through divorce and still be able to get married in the church.

There is also more of a complication with children:
Children born of a union declared null are considered in canon law to be offspring of a “putative” marriage (c. 1061, 3), and thus legitimate for all ecclesial purposes (c. 1137). In cases of long-standing marriages declared null, the records often report protests to the Tribunal made by children who are already in late adolescence and well able to think for themselves: “but you are saying we are illegitimate”. The Tribunal answers, with all technical correctness, No; and quotes cc. 1061 and 1137. In one case however the grown daughter came back with a further comment: “OK; but what you are saying is that my father and mother were never truly husband and wife”. To that there was no answer. This in effect is what is being said today of the parents of many thousands of children.
This of course does not happen with divorce. The children of divorcees never doubt that they were legitimate; nor that their parents were really married. Here I think we have a phenomenon, fraught with pastoral consequences, that calls for more serious study than has been given to it.
Code:
        When nullity is declared because of consensual incapacity, a further important and somewhat related point is to be noted. In such a case, according to a formal judgment of a Church tribunal, one (or both) of the parties (one of the parents, in our context) is declared to have suffered from some grave psychic anomaly at the time of consent.
cormacburke.or.ke/node/220
 
I There is also more of a complication with children:
there is no complication with children (other than what they are already suffering because of the divorce, which is a done deal with or without the annulment) because there status is not affected. Why are you bringing this up?
 
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