Why do liberal Catholics stay in the Church?

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Liberal Catholics stay in the Church for the same reasons conservative Catholics stay in the Church.
 
PRmerger said:
And why do liberals stay when there is another denomination that fits their theology?
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Peter didn’t drop his fishing net and follow Jesus, after asking Jesus what His theology was. Theology is of the mind, and it can be very useful; but the mind is a servant of the heart, the nous.
 
Ahimsa said:
Peter didn’t drop his fishing net and follow Jesus, after asking Jesus what His theology was. Theology is of the mind, and it can be very useful; but the mind is a servant of the heart, the nous.
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This is a non-sequitur.

And the mind is* not* a servant of the heart.

God commands us to love him with our entire heart, soul, strength and MIND. Theology is the MIND part about loving God and we are commanded to apprehend him through this study.

So the question remains, if there is a denomination that conforms to the liberal’s theology, why not just join that church?
 
PRmerger said:
This is a non-sequitur.

And the mind is* not* a servant of the heart.

God commands us to love him with our entire heart, soul, strength and MIND. Theology is the MIND part about loving God and we are commanded to apprehend him through this study.
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Yes, the mind (or intellect, or reason) is important, but the heart (that which responds with “faith”, even beyond “reason”) is the central aspect of the human person. Notice that “heart” comes first in the list that you presented, whereas “mind” comes last.
 
Ahimsa said:
Yes, the mind (or intellect, or reason) is important, but the heart (that which responds with “faith”, even beyond “reason”) is the central aspect of the human person. Notice that “heart” comes first in the list that you presented, whereas “mind” comes last.
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'kay. 🤷

Fair enough.

'Tis a non-sequitur nonetheless.

I don’t understand why liberals remain in the CC when there is surely a church that matches all of their theology to a “t”. 🤷
 
Ahimsa said:
Yes, the mind (or intellect, or reason) is important, but the heart (that which responds with “faith”, even beyond “reason”) is the central aspect of the human person. Notice that “heart” comes first in the list that you presented, whereas “mind” comes last.
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No, Faith acts upon the soul.

As Aquinas noted, the Soul has three main powers, Animation, Reason and Will

Reason informs the Will, but the Will decides. Faith illuminates the intellect and enflames the Will.

But in each case, the actio of Faith requires the Will to make a Free Choice.

So the question then becomes, when those who disagree with the Church make the choice of will to belong to the Church, what was the grounding of the intellect that informed the will?
 
PRmerger said:
'kay. 🤷

Fair enough.

'Tis a non-sequitur nonetheless.

I don’t understand why liberals remain in the CC when there is surely a church that matches all of their theology to a “t”. 🤷
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Many liberals would say that there is no church/ecclesial community with which they agree (or rationally understand, or intellectually fully comprehend) 100%.
 
Brendan said:
So the question then becomes, when those who disagree with the Church make the choice of will to belong to the Church, what was the grounding of the intellect that informed the will?
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In modern English, “intellect” implies something very “intellectual” or even “academic”, which is why “heart” seems more appropriate.

So, the grounding of the heart that informs the will, is based upon the person’s faith that the Church is where God wants them to be, even if they may have problems fully intellectually understanding or comprehending all the teachings and Teachings of the Church.
 
Liberalism is an “ideology” and not a “theology”. This is why you have liberal Theologists. They are infuenced by their ideology. I am going out on a limb by guessing that you are talking about modernists, who are lumped into the title of liberal. The modernist’s can erode a Church from within, if care is not exercised. They want to make the Church fit there ideology, which is that we must conform to current beliefs and practices within our secular society. You might be surprised to know that “cafeteria Catholicism” is far more prevalent than liberalism.

We are all sinners and possess some unclean nature that effects our relationship with God. It is for this reason we stay in the Church so that the Holy Spirit can continue to work upon us.

Many liberals do leave the Church which is part of the reason we have a society full of “church shoppers”. The other reason is the chaos of Protestantism, which continues to “reform” itself.

The Catholic Church has long been known for its support of liberal political issues. If you study its history you will be surprised at our involvement in forming labor unions, etc. Where we draw the line with current liberal polical beliefs is abortion. However, our stance on abortion also includes questioning the death penalty, which puts us at odds with many on the conservative side. We as a Church are a blend of many cultures and ideologies, who have one thing in common, we are all sinners. However, we are fortunate in having been drawn to the truth, which is the Church. For the record, I am an independent conservative. God Bless.
 
PRmerger said:
I don’t understand why liberals remain in the CC when there is surely a church that matches all of their theology to a “t”. 🤷
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Perhapse God is holding them there for a time and reason that only He knows about.

God patiently held me in the Catholic Church for 37 years. Sometimes I went every week and sometimes sporadically. I was entrenched in great sin and didn’t go to confession that whole time. I was going through some very bad times in my early 40’s and began searching for God. One evening about four years ago, I was reading John 6 and it hit me… I fell on the kitchen floor crying over what my sins were doing to Jesus Christ. At that point, I realized that the Church was everything it claims to be and that if I should ever stop loving the Church, I would stop loving God as well. The next day I made a confession of 37 years.

I won’t get into what happened to me in the minute or two after that confession, primarily because no one will believe me. Suffice it to say that I know what the disciples felt at Pentacost.

Jesus kept Peter around knowing that he would deny him, not once but three times. The thief on the cross converted with only moments to live. Jesus drew Thomas back to the upper room to show him his hands and his side in spite of Thomas’s doubt. God let Saul persecute the Church knowing that he would be truned into Paul.

The fact is that we don’t know what God is doing in other people’s lives and we would all do well to ammend our own lives before we demand that other’s be removed from God’s sacraments.

-Tim-
 
PRmerger said:
I don’t understand why liberals remain in the CC when there is surely a church that matches all of their theology to a “t”. 🤷
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I found this article to be quite enlightening in regards to this question:

Why I’m Still a Catholic by Andrew Greeley

I understand the question. I think it is a natural one to ask for those of us who get frustrated by certain people’s lack of doctrinal fidelity. The Catholic Church’s beauty and history are a stronger pull towards the Church than theological disagreements are a push out of the Church.
 
Ahimsa said:
In modern English, “intellect” implies something very “intellectual” or even “academic”, which is why “heart” seems more appropriate…
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Aquinas was correct, as are the modern translations of his works. It is in the Intellect, as the seat of Reason that informs the Will.

Ergo, their decision their Will derived at, if it is truely Faith acting upon it, must have the Intellect (yes, using the modern defintion) as it’s source.

We see that in the traditional prayer, the Act of Faith
O my God, I firmly believe that you are one God in three divine persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I believe that your divine Son became man and died for our sins, and that he will come to judge the living and the dead. I believe these and all the truths which the holy catholic Church teaches, because in revealing them you can neither deceive nor be deceived.
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Faith, acting upon the soul, informs the Intellect (modern defintion) to enflame the will to believe.
 
TimothyH said:
. The fact is that we don’t know what God is doing in other people’s lives and we would all do well to ammend our own lives before we demand that other’s be removed from God’s sacraments.

-Tim-
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Oh, to be sure I am not making any demands that others be removed from God’s sacraments. Only that liberals who demand that the Church change their teachings re-assess their demands.
 
Ahimsa said:
Many liberals would say that there is no church/ecclesial community with which they agree (or rationally understand, or intellectually fully comprehend) 100%.
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Tis true and they might also not be 100% certain the Catholic faith is not correct, thus they hold on in some degree. And yet who knows where God might lead them in the future.
 
Ahimsa said:
Yes, the mind (or intellect, or reason) is important, but the heart (that which responds with “faith”, even beyond “reason”) is the central aspect of the human person. Notice that “heart” comes first in the list that you presented, whereas “mind” comes last.
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“Go with your guts! That’s what you have them for!” Roy Scheider’s character says to urge a subordinate to make a tough decision in a movie. I’ve never understood any of this. My heart contains no neurons with which to think.
 
sedonaman said:
“Go with your guts! That’s what you have them for!” Roy Scheider’s character says to urge a subordinate to make a tough decision in a movie. I’ve never understood any of this. My heart contains no neurons with which to think.
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Heart ≠ gut
 
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