Why do liberal Catholics stay in the Church?

[Roy5]

MontChevalier

** Roughly 25% of Americans are Catholics, while about twice that number are Protestants**. Protestants are divided, of course, though they seem to move easily from one church to another. You will find very few Catholics - maybe 5-10% or less of the population - in states like Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Arkansasm etc.  The percentage has grown for two main reasons: northerners moving south and Latinos moving up in from Mexico and other parts of Latin America.  

** But, if you are right, and if liberal or cafeteria Catholics aren't really Catholics, then I think that perhaps 10% of Americans are 'real Catholics'.** In this area about 20% of them attend mass faithfully, compared to more than 80% 50 years ago.

** I was just reading the latest* America*,** the fine Jesuit magazine which arrived today, and letters to the editor indicate how many Catholics are alienated because the Church continues to insist that everything it teaches in doctrine and morals is infallible. It is sad to see what a mass exodus from the Church had occurred around here. Many leave Christianity entirely for no religion at all. Others drift into some variety of Protestantism, either of the liberal, mainline variety or of the evangelical, literalist sort.

 **Hard-line Catholics can choose to close their eyes to all this.** And if they believe that God will always defend and preserve the 'one, true, apostlic Church' they need not be defensive, but relax. The Lord will surely keep the true faith pure.

** As for me personally, I think we need to focus on a spirit of unity (not union) among Christians**, respecting different viewpoints while rejoicing in our common dedication to Christ who supercedes any one denomination. Arrogant tribalism conflicts with what I view as the spirit of Christ. Millions of dedicated Christians, among them profound scholars, see things differently. I have no problem with that. Members of the same family often see things differently, but they don’t let such differences destroy the unity of that family.
**
Let us make religion a bridge and not a barrier.** God bless Catholics, Protestants, and God-loving people of every creed, color, culture and country.

 

[princessmara]

It can be difficult when we have priests in the church that are very liberal. The priest who was the pastor of the parish I left was what I call a bleeding heart liberal. He was pro abortion and many times his homilies were contrary to what the church teaches. If our priests are leading with this kind of example why are we surprised when we have parishners with this attitude?

 

[MontChevalier]

MontChevalier

** Roughly 25% of Americans are Catholics, while about twice that number are Protestants**. Protestants are divided, of course, though they seem to move easily from one church to another. You will find very few Catholics - maybe 5-10% or less of the population - in states like Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Arkansasm etc.  The percentage has grown for two main reasons: northerners moving south and Latinos moving up in from Mexico and other parts of Latin America.  

** But, if you are right, and if liberal or cafeteria Catholics aren't really Catholics, then I think that perhaps 10% of Americans are 'real Catholics'.** In this area about 20% of them attend mass faithfully, compared to more than 80% 50 years ago.

** I was just reading the latest* America***, the fine Jesuit magazine which arrived today, and letters to the editor indicate how many Catholics are alienated because the Church continues to insist that everything it teaches in doctrine and morals is infallible. It is sad to see what a mass exodus from the Church had occurred around here. Many leave Christianity entirely for no religion at all. Others drift into some variety of Protestantism, either of the liberal, mainline variety or of the evangelical, literalist sort.

 **Hard-line Catholics can choose to close their eyes to all this.** And if they believe that God will always defend and preserve the 'one, true, apostlic Church' they need not be defensive, but relax. The Lord will surely keep the true faith pure.

** As for me personally, I think we need to focus on a spirit of unity (not union) among Christians**, respecting different viewpoints while rejoicing in our common dedication to Christ who supercedes any one denomination. Arrogant tribalism conflicts with what I view as the spirit of Christ. Millions of dedicated Christians, among them profound scholars, see things differently. I have no problem with that. Members of the same family often see things differently, but they don’t let such differences destroy the unity of that family.
**
Let us make religion a bridge and not a barrier.** God bless Catholics, Protestants, and God-loving people of every creed, color, culture and country.

There was never a bridge, nor a barrier, but an entire ocean that separates us. Unity or anything similar to unity, is just another way to attack the Church. And I do not recognize your opinion as valid, regarding why Catholics can be Liberal, pro-abortion, homo-loving, hypocrites. I defend the tradition that has existed for thousands of years; this is not just another church.

-MontChevalier

 

[David_Castlen]

Would you prefer people left the Church that Christ built, or stay within the Church to continue working out their faith with fear and trembling and where they may find the fullness of His truth eventually?

You hit me where I have been having problems. Having come back to the church after 40+ years away from it, spending 8+ years as a staunch Baptist and studying the Church and its Fathers I was excited about my return. After two weeks “inside” I was shocked at members who believed there are times that abortions is OK, you didn’t have to believe all those miracles in the bible, and on and on… I asked myself and others why they are allowed to stay. Then I read something Kreeft said; something like this: the Chruch is a home of sick people… That comforted me but did NOT give me satisfaction… I particularly do not undersand how the VP of the US, nancy polosi, The Kennedys, Sean Hannity and the rest of the CINOs do not get a public excumunication as their examples confuse my brother protestants… this even bothers me more because I feel like i am being extremely judgemental… I guess it is easy to be an “arm-chair bishop”… Oh well, I am glad the subject is in discussion here… i look forward to the responses and hope you respond to my writing herewith.

 

[BlueDogMN]

I thought there were just Catholics… why label anyone. It seems to me that this thread has more based upon political struggle that spiritual action. There is much more to Catholic social teaching that segregating Catholics with labels of liberal or conservative…

I struggle to embrace all catholic social teachings and I certainly don’t just struggle with this one day a year (election day). Seek the truth and advocate for justice; don’t just preach opinion.

I am cautious when people are so quick to judge others based upon a perception of who someone is… I would hope that people would rather get to know me before they label me; liberal or otherwise…

 

[AamahJones]

I am a moderate, cradle Catholic. I have differed and had inner struggles with some church teachings and doctrine over the years but I stay in the church because of the real presence of the Eucharist, the sacraments and many, many other things. Catholic is who I am. I could not be anything else.

I answer this type of question this way. Catholics who disagree with parts of the church teaching stay Catholic for the same reason that people still call themselves part of their family even though they might not agree with everything family members do.

Have I agreed with everything my parents thought or did during my lifetime? No, but I love them and the family they created and I would never abandon it.

Same with being a citizen of the United States. I don’t agree with everything this country or its government does, have problems with some aspects of American society, but would never consider renouncing my citizenship.

It’s the same with the church. Just because my human nature causes me to doubt and disagree with things doesn’t mean I am going to automatically leave behind a Church that is a treasured part of who I am.
Just my two cents — God bless.

So well said, thank you for validating my opinion.

 

[drdaddy]

The very tenor of the question concerns me. An equally important question might be "Why do Conservative Catholics stay in the Church? I ask this not to cause a battle, but to point out that conservative Catholics bemoan and question teachings of the Church as mush as Liberal Catholics do. Aren’t we all called to have faith in God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit that they will guide us - whether we are “liberal” or “conservative”? This type of us against them rhetoric may indeed be the demise of the Universal Church. Just my humble thoughts.

 

[estesbob]

The very tenor of the question concerns me. An equally important question might be "Why do Conservative Catholics stay in the Church? I ask this not to cause a battle, but to point out that conservative Catholics bemoan and question teachings of the Church as mush as Liberal Catholics do…

They do? Which ones?

 

[raaucoin]

I recently read (can’t remember where) that the reason most dissident Catholics stay in the Church is because they realize that if they left then their influence would weaken (i.e. no one would really care what they think). I think this seems reasonable enough with respect to Catholic politicians who support abortion, gay marriage, etc. It also could apply to dissident priests. And even those people in charge of organizations like Catholics for Choice.

But my question is, what about the average layman? The man or woman who attends Mass weekly, yet his opinion on many things is not in accord with the Church. Why do these folks remain in the Church? You can’t really say that they stay for reasons of influence or power. So what is it?

Thanks.

Why do they? Why did I? because in spite of a desperate attempt to justify and rationalize why my ideas were better than the Church’s, I couldn’t completely block out the Call of the Good Shepherd.

 

[KSU]

"An equally important question might be "Why do Conservative Catholics stay in the Church? " estesbob

They do not “stay” in the Church, the ARE the Church. They were there with Christ when He instituted the Church, and have defended it and kept it in accordance with His commands, despite contrary attempts by liberals to this day. He said to the first Conservative, “And I say to you, that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hell [insert your own examples, e.g., Christ was homosexual, so it’s OK] shall not prevail against it.”

As to what it is people must believe in order to be in His Church, i.e., in order to honestly call themselves Catholics, Christ said to Peter, "And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound, even in heaven. And whatever you shall loose on earth shall be loosed, even in heaven.”

When self-defined Catholics try to muddle what Peter has bound on earth, and try to lead others astray, especially children, they are playing with fire: “But because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth.”

Be very careful, folks, you’re playing with eternity.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Why do they? Why did I? because in spite of a desperate attempt to justify and rationalize why my ideas were better than the Church’s, I couldn’t completely block out the Call of the Good Shepherd.

 

[je333]

The very tenor of the question concerns me. An equally important question might be "Why do Conservative Catholics stay in the Church? I ask this not to cause a battle, but to point out that conservative Catholics bemoan and question teachings of the Church as mush as Liberal Catholics do. Aren’t we all called to have faith in God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit that they will guide us - whether we are “liberal” or “conservative”? This type of us against them rhetoric may indeed be the demise of the Universal Church. Just my humble thoughts.

Amen! We must NOT politicize our beautiful Catholic faith in our Church. We are all brothers and sister in JESUS CHRIST, our Lord, despite our political differences, cultural backgrounds, etc…

 

[je333]

They do? Which ones?

I was called by God the father to come back to him so I can bring different flavors to the CHURCH… My mission now is to bring glory to his name. :tiphat::tiphat::tiphat::newidea::newidea:

 

[je333]

"An equally important question might be "Why do Conservative Catholics stay in the Church? " estesbob

He said to the first Conservative, "And I say to you, that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hell [insert your own examples, e.g., Christ was homosexual, so it’s OK

]

:tsktsk::tsktsk::tsktsk: My dear brother. What’s in your heart by making this comment! How do you feel about homosexuals? Again, homosexuals not homosexuality. Be very careful my dear brother…

 

[je333]

Why do they? Why did I? because in spite of a desperate attempt to justify and rationalize why my ideas were better than the Church’s, I couldn’t completely block out the Call of the Good Shepherd.

:hug3::hug3::hug3:

 

[KSU]

:tsktsk::tsktsk::tsktsk: My dear brother. What’s in your heart by making this comment! How do you feel about homosexuals? Again, homosexuals not homosexuality. Be very careful my dear brother…

I feel about homosexuals just the way Conservative Catholics should, i.e., the way our current-day Peter and the CCC teach me to feel about them. So what?

I wish militant homosexuals were just as tolerant and protective of Church teaching. They are not; in fact they mock it and detest it and commit all sorts of abominations against Her. Their despicable attempts to muddle what Peter has bound on earth (doctrine) are an example of what Christ meant by “the gates of hell.”

 

[dontknow]

MontChevalier

** Roughly 25% of Americans are Catholics, while about twice that number are Protestants**. Protestants are divided, of course, though they seem to move easily from one church to another. You will find very few Catholics - maybe 5-10% or less of the population - in states like Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Arkansasm etc.  The percentage has grown for two main reasons: northerners moving south and Latinos moving up in from Mexico and other parts of Latin America.  

** But, if you are right, and if liberal or cafeteria Catholics aren't really Catholics, then I think that perhaps 10% of Americans are 'real Catholics'.** In this area about 20% of them attend mass faithfully, compared to more than 80% 50 years ago.

** I was just reading the latest* America***, the fine Jesuit magazine which arrived today, and letters to the editor indicate how many Catholics are alienated because the Church continues to insist that everything it teaches in doctrine and morals is infallible. It is sad to see what a mass exodus from the Church had occurred around here. Many leave Christianity entirely for no religion at all. Others drift into some variety of Protestantism, either of the liberal, mainline variety or of the evangelical, literalist sort.

 **Hard-line Catholics can choose to close their eyes to all this.** And if they believe that God will always defend and preserve the 'one, true, apostlic Church' they need not be defensive, but relax. The Lord will surely keep the true faith pure.

** As for me personally, I think we need to focus on a spirit of unity (not union) among Christians**, respecting different viewpoints while rejoicing in our common dedication to Christ who supercedes any one denomination. Arrogant tribalism conflicts with what I view as the spirit of Christ. Millions of dedicated Christians, among them profound scholars, see things differently. I have no problem with that. Members of the same family often see things differently, but they don’t let such differences destroy the unity of that family.
**
Let us make religion a bridge and not a barrier.** God bless Catholics, Protestants, and God-loving people of every creed, color, culture and country.

There is much in this reply that I agree with.

 

[David_Castlen]

There is much in this reply that I agree with.

“The Gospel is offensive”
“…enter through the narrow gate…”

Yes, let’s not be offensive; but remember, we can not share a partial Gospel. Read chapter 3 and 4 and 5 of Acts.

All things in love

 

[PRmerger]

“The Gospel is offensive”
“…enter through the narrow gate…”

Yes, let’s not be offensive; but remember, we can not share a partial Gospel. Read chapter 3 and 4 and 5 of Acts.

All things in love

Indeed.

That segues nicely with a post I just read from Catholic Apologist Mark Shea:

And that’s not just because heresy is boring. It goes deeper than that. Don’t get me wrong. Heresy is stupefyingly boring. Just off the top of your head, which would you call the more interesting story even if you didn’t believe it: that the Creator of the entire universe became a human being on an out of the way planet in the spiral arm of the Milky Way galaxy, performed miraculous deeds, changed lives and hearts, encountered opposition from the Powers that Be, was betrayed, arrested, subjected to a kangaroo court and murdered in the most heinous way imaginable, rose from the dead, ascended to heaven, and now offers eternal ecstasy to the miserable species that killed him, or,

Jesus was a dead rabbi with a girlfriend. **Jesus said that niceness was nice. **Jesus was pretty much indistinguishable from a commentator on TV who urges bromides about gender equality and tariff reform.

So yeah. Heresy is boring. But it’s boring because of something deeper.

Read more: ncregister.com/blog/mark-shea/heresy-and-orthodoxy-sterility-and-fruitfulness/#ixzz1dLxpCGEh

 

[je333]

I feel about homosexuals just the way Conservative Catholics should, i.e., the way our current-day Peter and the CCC teach me to feel about them. So what?

I wish militant homosexuals were just as tolerant and protective of Church teaching. They are not; in fact they mock it and detest it and commit all sorts of abominations against Her. Their despicable attempts to muddle what Peter has bound on earth (doctrine) are an example of what Christ meant by “the gates of hell.”

Im sorry you feel that way. Not all conservatives feel that way and not all liberals like homosexuals. “Militant homosexuals” are VERY tolerant and PROTECTIVE of Church teachings. MANY OF THEM who follow JESUS in our Beatiful Catholic Faith do in fact serve in the Church as priests and nuns and many as lay people. The cross they carry is much heavier than most people. We have to show compassion to them and encourage those who are far away from the Church to come back to the Lord. THEY ARE IN HEAVEN AS WELL. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH HOMOSEXUALS MY DEAR BROTHER. THE SAME SEX SINFUL ACTS IS WHAT IS WRONG. Please consult and ask your priest or spiritual advisor to guide you on your own issues about HOMOSEXUAL PEOPLE. The hard feelings you have for them is not of God. I will pray for you. May God Bless You!!!