Why do liberals act like they can't live without contraception and abortions?

[mountee]

One thing the last few years have taught me is that there is no telling what drives how some people feel and I would be far better off being concerned about myself. Trying to figure out why a “liberal” thinks so differently than I, a " conservative", is something that I do not believe will ever be determined. I know that when I consider my beliefs they almost always come down to the fact that as a cradle Catholic I was influenced in my thinking to such a way that I continue to feel that way today, 61 years later. Liberals who are so far apart from me in what we believe have probably reached their conclusions for some similar reasons. I only hope that we can all find a way to disagree respectfully, I feel that God expects that of us.

 

[CrimsonThorn]

True, that. I suppose taking anti-depressants is also opposing what is natural. It’s preventing you from feeling the emotions that, presumably, God intended you to feel.

Incorrect.

Depression goes against what we are ordered for. It goes against what it means to live a healthy life, so taking antidepressants to get back on track what we are naturally ordered for would be ok.

Contracepting life is not what living organisms were ordered for. Living organisms were meant to reproduce.

 

[CrimsonThorn]

If there are gay animals (i.e. homosexuality occurs in Nature) how can it truly be unnatural?

Its unnatural (again im playing into your arguement here assuming it is found in animals. For the record i believe being gay is a choice)…well maybe “unnatural” is an improper term. I think “disordered” is better…

So its disordered just like Cancer and Depression are disordered, since it contradicts what livig organisms were ordered for.

If you are hungry and your instinct drives you to eat, and instead of eating food you start to eat broken class and cardboard…do you agree that this is Disordered? Do you agree that things such as glass and cardboard have zero nutrients and that humans were not meant to eat these things?

 

[CrimsonThorn]

How are things such as the internet natural?

The internet isnt natural, but the internet is not disordered. It doesnt prevent organisms in doing what they were ordered for.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Its unnatural (again im playing into your arguement here assuming it is found in animals. For the record i believe being gay is a choice)…well maybe “unnatural” is an improper term. I think “disordered” is better…

So its disordered just like Cancer and Depression are disordered, since it contradicts what livig organisms were ordered for.

If you are hungry and your instinct drives you to eat, and instead of eating food you start to eat broken class and cardboard…do you agree that this is Disordered? Do you agree that things such as glass and cardboard have zero nutrients and that humans were not meant to eat these things?

Really?
Did you consciously choose to be straight?

 

[CrimsonThorn]

Really?
Did you consciously choose to be straight?

Being straight is what I was ordered for by nature, theres no need to think about it, just as i dont have to choose between food and cardboard everytime i get hungry.

Engaging in homosexuals acts is most definitely a choice, just as engaging in heterosexual sex is.

Attraction is one thing, actions are another.

On a related note, men in prison seem to be capable of choosing to engage in gay acts in prison, yet lead otherwise heterosexual lives when out of prison.

 

[DENNYINMI]

I would answer this question by replying that some think they can not live without sex.

 

[Regular_Atheist]

I would answer this question by replying that some think they can not live without sex.

Incorrect.

Life is just much, much better with sex.

Contracepting life is not what living organisms were ordered for. Living organisms were meant to reproduce.

I’d disagree that each and every human being must reproduce. There’re an awful lot of humans, and since we’re pretty much at the top of the food chain, I don’t think it’s a necessity. We’re not exactly going to go extinct any time soon. I don’t think it’s wrong or immoral to use contraception. While it may oppose what we were “ordered” for, I don’t think it’s wrong to not follow that particular order. I don’t believe in a God, so I don’t believe there’s anyone to annoy or offend, and of course any order that seems to have arisen happened simply by sheer chance.

 

[CrimsonThorn]

I don’t think it’s wrong or immoral to use contraception. While it may oppose what we were “ordered” for, I don’t think it’s wrong to not follow that particular order.

In our sub-discussion we’re not talking about the morality, just what is natural and what is disordered. The morality is a separate discussion entirely.

Secondly, I’d like to add that you’ve pretty much conceded your argument right there anyway in what is bolded. You’ve basically said “yeah it’s disordered, but so what?”

When you bring the “so whats?” into the discussion, you’ve given up your side and have acknowledged my points as being correct. You may still further disagree with the points, but that’s not what we’re concerned with at this time

 

[Seeker1961]

Really?
Did you consciously choose to be straight?

You’ll never get an answer to that question. I’ve been asking straight people for 30 years and have yet to get one. There’s always a change of subject, usually turning it back to the “disorder”.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Being straight is what I was ordered for by nature, theres no need to think about it, just as i dont have to choose between food and cardboard everytime i get hungry.

Engaging in homosexuals acts is most definitely a choice, just as engaging in heterosexual sex is.

Attraction is one thing, actions are another.

On a related note, men in prison seem to be capable of choosing to engage in gay acts in prison, yet lead otherwise heterosexual lives when out of prison.

Exactly.
Just as you did not choose to be straight, there is no reason to think that a gay person chose to be a homosexual.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

In our sub-discussion we’re not talking about the morality, just what is natural and what is disordered. The morality is a separate discussion entirely.

Secondly, I’d like to add that you’ve pretty much conceded your argument right there anyway in what is bolded. You’ve basically said "yeah it’s disordered, but so what?"
When you bring the “so whats?” into the discussion, you’ve given up your side and have acknowledged my points as being correct. You may still further disagree with the points, but that’s not what we’re concerned with at this time

I see no reason to believe that you are correct.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Originally Posted by AngryAtheist8
Really?
Did you consciously choose to be straight?

You’ll never get an answer to that question. I’ve been asking straight people for 30 years and have yet to get one. There’s always a change of subject, usually turning it back to the “disorder”.

No, he admitted that he didn’t choose to be straight.
But he doesn’t appear to see the connection.

 

[Seeker1961]

Originally Posted by AngryAtheist8
Really?
Did you consciously choose to be straight?

No, he admitted that he didn’t choose to be straight.
But he doesn’t appear to see the connection.

They never do…because we have to remain different/disordered/evil.

 

[CrimsonThorn]

Originally Posted by AngryAtheist8
Really?
Did you consciously choose to be straight?

No, he admitted that he didn’t choose to be straight.
But he doesn’t appear to see the connection.

Being straight is what I am ordered for, just as I am ordered for food when I get hungry. If I go for cardboard when I get hungry, even if I don’t have to make the choice that I’m hungry for cardboard, I still have to make the choice to actually eat the cardboard. I’d say that is disordered. I’m not exactly doubting the sincerity of attraction a homosexual feels, but the fact that they’re attracted to something they were not biologically ordered for, is disordered.

Apparently you’re not seeing the connection.

 

[CrimsonThorn]

You’ll never get an answer to that question. I’ve been asking straight people for 30 years and have yet to get one. There’s always a change of subject, usually turning it back to the “disorder”.

Please see post # 260. Answer is there.

 

[CrimsonThorn]

I see no reason to believe that you are correct.

You’re going to have to do more explaining than that.

I’m sure you think life is compatible with death, too, which is a huge paradox and doesn’t require you to accept or believe that in order for it to be, in fact, a paradox.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Originally Posted by AngryAtheist8
Originally Posted by AngryAtheist8
Really?
Did you consciously choose to be straight?

No, he admitted that he didn’t choose to be straight.
But he doesn’t appear to see the connection.

They never do…because we have to remain different/disordered/evil.

Regardless of how misguided they may be, everyone is the hero of their own story:shrug:

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Being straight is what I am ordered for, just as I am ordered for food when I get hungry. If I go for cardboard when I get hungry, even if I don’t have to make the choice that I’m hungry for cardboard, I still have to make the choice to actually eat the cardboard. I’d say that is disordered. ** I’m not exactly doubting the sincerity of attraction a homosexual feels, but the fact that they’re attracted to something they were not biologically ordered for, is disordered.**

Apparently you’re not seeing the connection.

Men are biologically ordered to impregnate as many women as possible.

Yet…

According to Catholic Natural Law a man acting in such a way is sinful and wrong.

As a Catholic, how can you pretend that there is not an inherent contradiction there?

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Originally Posted by Seeker1961
You’ll never get an answer to that question. I’ve been asking straight people for 30 years and have yet to get one. There’s always a change of subject, usually turning it back to the “disorder”.

Please see post # 260. Answer is there.

Not really:shrug: