Why do lutherans call themselves evangelical catholics?

[PRmerger]

I’m going to approach random people and ask them where the closest universal Church is and see what they say.

Do you think they will point to the local Lutheran church?

Probably not.

And what happens when you ask them, “Where is the nearest Catholic church?”

 

[dronald]

I realize your remark is probably tongue-in-cheek, but if you ask them this, they may think you’re referring to a Unitarian Universalist church!

Haha. I considered this as well.

 

[dronald]

Do you think they will point to the local Lutheran church?

Probably not.

And what happens when you ask them, “Where is the nearest Catholic church?”

They would probably be very confused.

And I suppose “Catholic” would point them to the One True Holy Apostolic Catholic Church founded on Peter the rock circa 33ad.

 

[guanophore]

I’m going to approach random people and ask them where the closest universal Church is and see what they say.

Now that would be a truly fascinating study! More fun than Jay walking I expect.

 

[PRmerger]

And what happens when you ask them, “Where is the nearest Catholic church?”

They would probably be very confused.

Are you saying this with a straight face (virtually speaking)?

Really?

You are actually proposing on this forum that if someone came to your town and asked a local citizen, “Where is the nearest Catholic church?” this average local citizen would “probably be very confused.”

 

[dronald]

Are you saying this with a straight face (virtually speaking)?

Really?

You are actually proposing on this forum that if someone came to your town and asked a local citizen, “Where is the nearest Catholic church?” this average local citizen would “probably be very confused.”

No no. I was saying if you asked them where the nearest universal church is they’d look at you funny.

I already responded that “Catholic” would have them point to the One True Holy Catholic Church founded on Peter the rock circa 33ad.

 

[JonNC]

=guanophore;12300390]Yes, exactly. If the Lutherans and the Anglicans are in communion with each other has he says, then why do their bishops not work together like all the Catholic Bishops work together with the successor of Peter?

For example, the EO patriarchs are all in unity with each other (though they are not in unity with the successor of Peter).

In the US, the ELCA and TEC can and do share priests. It’s called full altar and pulpit communion. Episcopal and Lutheran bishops participate in each other’s ordinations. Priests from one communion can serve a parish from the other.

I don’t know if this is the case of the Porvoo communion in Europe, but I suspect it is.

Both of these communions have their leaderships, but are they working in unity together? If not, how can they say that they are “in full communion” with each other?

It depends on what you mean. Institutionally, they are still separate, but they do work in unity as I described above.

Jon

 

[guanophore]

In the US, the ELCA and TEC can and do share priests. It’s called full altar and pulpit communion. Episcopal and Lutheran bishops participate in each other’s ordinations. Priests from one communion can serve a parish from the other.

Well I learn something new every day on this forum!

Thank you Jon.

What prevents them from being instituttionally united?

 

[JonNC]

Well I learn something new every day on this forum!

Thank you Jon.

What prevents them from being instituttionally united?

Then there would be only one leadership, and someone wouldn’t be a leader anymore.

Seriously, it may have to do with preservation of their particular traditions, as well as polity. For example, when a Lutheran pastor is serving an Episcopal parish, liturgical worship is reflective of the Anglican parish, not the Lutheran pastor, etc.
If you think about it, however, this is often the case for communions in unity, outside of yours. Autocephaly is a fairly common structure.

Jon

PS: In the earlier post I said “full altar and pulpit communion”. I think the correct term is “full altar and pulpit fellowship”.

 

[7_Sorrows]

Because everyone wants to claim the name Catholic, but they want to do it on their own terms.

(Borrowing from St. Augustine)…we all know that when a stranger comes to town and asks for the nearest Catholic church, no one points him to a Lutheran church.

That is the wisest statement I have read on the entire thread!

 

[PRmerger]

That is the wisest statement I have read on the entire thread!

:curtsey:

 

[JonNC]

Because everyone wants to claim the name Catholic, but they want to do it on their own terms.

(Borrowing from St. Augustine)…we all know that when a stranger comes to town and asks for the nearest Catholic church, no one points him to a Lutheran church.

If a stranger comes to town and asks where the nearest Orthodox Church is, no one would point them to a Catholic Church.

Does that mean Catholicism is, therefore, heterodox?

Please note, PR, that, yes, we consider ourselves Catholic, but those of us who use this quite accurate title asked about in the thread are using the descriptor “Evangelical” to identify the tradition of catholicity we are.
If a stranger asks about an Evangelical Catholic parish, many in America might not know exactly what that is, but those that do, and I’m thinking those that don’t, would not send them to a “Roman” Catholic Church.

Jon

 

[PRmerger]

No no. I was saying if you asked them where the nearest universal church is they’d look at you funny.

Ah. Okey dokey then.

Yes. That question is really a question with no application.

I already responded that “Catholic” would have them point to the One True Holy Catholic Church founded on Peter the rock circa 33ad.

Yep.

Right here:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[PRmerger]

If a stranger comes to town and asks where the nearest Orthodox Church is, no one would point them to a Catholic Church.

This is absolutely correct.

No Catholic that I have ever encountered wants to say, “Hey, I am a member of the Orthodox Church!”

Because that would be disingenuous.

I would never say, “I consider myself Orthodox”.

Although there seems to be quite a few folks here who want to say, “Hey, I am a member of the Catholic Church!” when they are not.

 

[JonNC]

I might add that there is a movement within the Catholic Church that is using the title “Evangelical Catholic”, in response to Pope Benedict’s call for a “new evangelization”.
I would strongly encourage my Lutheran siblings to refrain from taking offense at Catholics using the term Evangelical.


Jon

 

[meltzerboy]

From Romeo and Juliet: “What’s in a name? That which we call a rose by any other word would smell as sweet…”

Sorry, Shakespeare, apparently there is sometimes quite a lot in a name!

 

[7_Sorrows]

Please note, PR, that, yes, we consider ourselves Catholic, but those of us who use this quite accurate title asked about in the thread are using the descriptor “Evangelical” to identify the tradition of catholicity we are.
If a stranger asks about an Evangelical Catholic parish, many in America might not know exactly what that is, but those that do, and I’m thinking those that don’t, would not send them to a “Roman” Catholic Church.

What do you mean tradition of catholicity you are?
If soneone asked me for an evangelical catholic church I would ask first - you mean catholic church? If they said no I would not know what they were talking about. I would not associate.evangelical catholic with a protestant church.

I seem to have no comprejension of what it means to be Catholic.

Jon

 

[EvangelCatholic]

Yes, exactly. If the Lutherans and the Anglicans are in communion with each other has he says, then why do their bishops not work together like all the Catholic Bishops work together with the successor of Peter?

For example, the EO patriarchs are all in unity with each other (though they are not in unity with the successor of Peter).

Both of these communions have their leaderships, but are they working in unity together? If not, how can they say that they are “in full communion” with each other?

Lutherans and Anglicans continue to forge ever closer relationships to the point that they hold their respective general assemblies together in Canada, for example.

 

[7_Sorrows]

Please note, PR, that, yes, we consider ourselves Catholic, but those of us who use this quite accurate title asked about in the thread are using the descriptor “Evangelical” to identify the tradition of catholicity we are.
If a stranger asks about an Evangelical Catholic parish, many in America might not know exactly what that is, but those that do, and I’m thinking those that don’t, would not send them to a “Roman” Catholic Church.

Jon

The problem is you have no comprehension of what it means to be Catholic. What do you mean by tradition of catholicity?
I would never associate evangelical catholic with protestant.

 

[EvangelCatholic]

I might add that there is a movement within the Catholic Church that is using the title “Evangelical Catholic”, in response to Pope Benedict’s call for a “new evangelization”.
I would strongly encourage my Lutheran siblings to refrain from taking offense at Catholics using the term Evangelical.


Jon

Yes Jon; have you read or heard about the book, “Evangelical Catholicism” by George Weigel? The discussion of reforming the papacy is quite interesting. Good read