Why do lutherans call themselves evangelical catholics?

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guanophore said:
Never mind the middle ages, what about back to the early centuries of the Church? How did he set aside that Christians had embraced 7 sacraments for 1500 years both East and West?

This is a problem I see with the Protestant position. One can disregard all that one believes are trappings from Rome, because the Papacy corrupted the Church, but one is still left with the Sacred Deposit of faith that we share with the EO, How does Luther go about throwing out sacraments that are non-Roman?

because he did not consider the Mass a Holy Sacrifice?

But “do this in memory of me” does not qualify? I am confused.
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Not to forget once one throws out Holy Orders- whee-
There goes Apostolic Succession.
 
marywarfield said:
If the true Christian Church according to the
Catechism bears four marks: One, Holy, Apostolic
Catholic- which of these marks do you deny Lutherans
bear?
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Since the terms have been re-defined by the Reformers, then it seems that they all apply under the revised definitions.
marywarfield said:
And if they do not bear the four marks they are not
therefore truly Christian. So why delude people into
believing they are your brethren?
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Because the Apostles taught that all those who are properly baptized are members of His One Body, the Church.
marywarfield said:
If in the other hand you believe they do bear the
four marks or that the four marks are irrelevant
why do you object to them calling themselves Catholic?
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It causes confusion.
 
guanophore said:
Since the terms have been re-defined by the Reformers, then it seems that they all apply under the revised definitions.

Because the Apostles taught that all those who are properly baptized are members of His One Body, the Church.

It causes confusion.
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But we consider Lutheran baptism totally valid.
Which would automatically make them members
of His Body- the Catholic Church correct? I am
very confused.
 
818 “However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers.… All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.” (1271)

Catholic Church. (2000). Catechism of the Catholic Church (2nd Ed., p. 216). Washington, DC: United States Catholic Conference.

Yes, imperfectly joined, but joined nonetheless.

Rebellious subjects of the Roman Pontiff.
 
guanophore said:
And I will give you an apology, not only for my memory, but for my confusion about your theology.
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Since you were confused about TOC I thought I’d try to get an answer about what does
Religion: καθολικ,Obl OSB mean?

Annie
 
marywarfield said:
When I was a kid ( and no Guanophore I’m not
an Old Catholic just an older lol) Cathilics resented
a Protestant church holding services very very similar
to Catholic Mass. Yet most Lutherans at that time- fifty
years ago- were happy with the Protestant label
and to be lumped more in the Baptist arena than Catholic.
Now no. They stress their commonalities to the CC.
Could it be that the Protestants over the last fifty
years have become so extreme the Lutherans
want to put distance between themselves and the
Protestant label?
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The Protestant vibe from 50 years ago was mainly an American thing. In Norway we have always held fast to our Lutheran high Church, Catholic tradition.
 
KjetilK said:
The Protestant vibe from 50 years ago was mainly an American thing. In Norway we have always held fast to our Lutheran high Church, Catholic tradition.
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How many sacraments does the Church of Norway recognize?
 
guanophore said:
How many sacraments does the Church of Norway recognize?
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The Augsburg Confession holds up two/three: baptism, the Eucharist (and absolution). But the remaining four are retained, although not called sacraments. We have confirmation, ordination, anointing of the sick, and marriage (as distinct rites).
 
I am very interested in an explanation of what it say next to your “religion”

Annie
 
KjetilK said:
The Protestant vibe from 50 years ago was mainly an American thing. In Norway we have always held fast to our Lutheran high Church, Catholic tradition.
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I was going to mention the same thing and feel proud that the Lutheran Church I was exposed to as a child is now common place in north America. All parishes in my Synod, for example have a weekly Mass and quite a few offer weekday services.

Besides Anglican what Protestants look like this and build churches like European Lutherans?
 
guanophore said:
818 “However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers.… All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.” (1271)

Catholic Church. (2000). Catechism of the Catholic Church (2nd Ed., p. 216). Washington, DC: United States Catholic Conference.

Yes, imperfectly joined, but joined nonetheless.

Rebellious subjects of the Roman Pontiff.
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Exactly my point. Partially amputated arms but
OUR arms nonetheless.
There are two solutions to the “catholic” terminology
then: the Church makes clear that Catholic applies
ONLY to those who follow the Pope and Lutherans
understand that “evangelical catholic” means they
are subject to the Pope.
 
7_Sorrows said:
Not necessarily.
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Of-course, there are exceptions but north American Lutherans have the distinction of building the most stark dull churches, in my opinion. That is not the case with Anglicans, right?
 
KjetilK said:
The Augsburg Confession holds up two/three: baptism, the Eucharist (and absolution). But the remaining four are retained, although not called sacraments. We have confirmation, ordination, anointing of the sick, and marriage (as distinct rites).
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AFAIK, this is the case among all Lutherans: Baptism, Absolution (some consider Absolution an extension of Baptism, and therefore sacramental either way), and Eucharist.
All of the others are a part of the life of the Church.

Jon
 
EvangelCatholic said:
Of-course, there are exceptions but north American Lutherans have the distinction of building the most stark dull churches, in my opinion.
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The Lutheran Church I attended briefly was like that - very stark. I have never seen anything Lutheran that looked like the photos in #394.

I am getting more and more curious about seeing now. There is an LCMS near me. If I did not have such a full day yesterday I probably would have gone over to check it out.
 
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KjetilK:
The Protestant vibe from 50 years ago was mainly an American thing. In Norway we have always held fast to our Lutheran high Church, Catholic tradition.
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Do your churches look like the photos in # 394?

Did the Church of Norway take over buildings vacated by Roman Catholics as did the Anglicans in England?

Or did whole congregations of previous Roman Catholics become “Church of Norway” so that nobody really moved or changed liturgy?
 
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