Why do married men go to prostitutes?

[Huiou_Theou]

Well, my priest was pretty adamant I continue to sleep on the couch. His reasons for saying so were probably out of protection for me though. Initially I slept on the couch because I was disgusted with him, and about ready to pack his bags. Things have calmed down for me a bit more now, although I’m real mad and I’m trying real real hard to not show it, doing fairly well at that I think.

Detour post, skim as not much really important is here except explanation which might be “dumbing” down the thread, no insult meant.

Been there. Just so you know, I have been in an impasse with my wife for four years, seen a psychiatrist, 6-7 counselsors, priests, etc. And my wife has severe impediments in understanding me even now.

My extended family (of my wife) has mostly disintigrated, and the whole time I told her exactly what was going to happen and why – but she couldn’t see it because her emotions lead her to think about things differently than I do.
Her fears and habits led to an extremely caustic situation between us.

But our problems revolve around my wife being a “bully” – not prostitution according to the professional.
(PS. She saw my search for prostitute statistics last night, so I AM BRACED FOR POSSIBLE SERIOUS MISINTERPRETATION.)

BTW: if any of the posters thinks I am attacking-- or you yourself feel that way – you are free to let me know. I can be quite patient except for child abuse issues – I won’t handle those well right now. (ibid my almost exit of the thread).

In deference to the background conversation, rather than attacking – I am trying to sort through inconsistencies because miscommunication = misunderstanding.
Take the vocabulary, for example, I had certain expectations based on the words used, and the logical structuring of the ideas – and then “cuz” was slipped in – much of this was indistinguishable from sarcasm and humor. The second person became interjected “you” when DeusCE described her sexual desires with regard to her husband making the whole audience a potential sex target

I can not hear the words – only see them – so I tend to keep track of multiple meanings in my head. Once I figured out DeusCE was speaking of her husband in the generic, I was able to see her point – some of which I can’t reconcile with manly thinking – but hey, I am learning woman speak…

DeusCE, I can well understand your last posting, as my wife in many ways fits the sterotype of your husband – use of language, oversensitivity to being “stupid”, stubbornness (me too) etc.
.
I was quite surprised to be grilled by a psychiatrist my wife had primed in a seperate interview over whether or not I called my wife “stupid”. My talk with the “barbarian” on another CA’s thread is perhaps nastier than my typical argument with my wife – for reference – although hypocrisy is the main thing which gets my ire up with my wife too.

My wife herself in many of our early arguments would accuse me of calling her stupid – She isn’t and it doesn’t need to be “dumbed” down – unless she is thinking of multiple things at once which splits her ability to concentrate. As do others?

Then, some time later, I got to see her talk with a Psychiatrist with whom she disagreed – and it became clear it wasn’t me. The psychiatrist pointed out that my wife wanted to talk with me – but, to me, that was the very thing that seemed to drive her away – my language and topics.

I am a very analytical,serially oriented, male thinker – I solve really hard problems – but I totally misunderstood my wife’s complaints at the time , many things she complained of she didn’t need solved – just listened to – but of course, I wanted to solve it rather than be pained by it.

I see the same problem for you, but in reverse, and probably worse because of traditional male role model issues in our culture.

 

[Huiou_Theou]

How do you mean “safer”? I mean he may actually want to have sex just to make himself feel better. He could be sick enough that it might possibly get him high to endanger me. I don’t know. I didn’t expect he’d ever follow through with a prostitute, but here we are.

I didn’t know the priest’s advice at the time, but the unintentional put-downs on this thread were aimed at forcing you to feel ashamed of sleeping in that bed by other women (not men). When I was falsely accused of rape with respect to my wife – it was a reaction of similar nature that I met in her. She had become convinced at that time that I was “schizophrenic?!” – her bewildering actions and confusion at that time were more of an incentive for me to want to pull her IN to help her ( **touch=love to men… ** football players swat buttts? ) although I mean gentle holding of her, not brute stuff.

If she had applied simple affection – I would have diffused. Sexuality and touch are affectionate to most men – but when my wife became withdrawn, the extra lonliness actually increased my sexual drive – a natural response.

Just so, the couch invites Freud into the room – why is she still on the couch?
You might think that is better than being in the bed – but you have known this
NON-VIOLENT man for 14 years, and likely what he was doing before – he is doing now. So if he is not inclined to sexuality in the bedroom – stay there.
If you really believe he is non-violent, which you have assured us – that is probably less enticing to him than your apparent upset on the couch.

Also, cannibus is another problem, for he could be “high” when he talks divorce to his dad, etc …

He’s being so nice right now and has all week, even with me sleeping on the couch. He’s wanting to plan a getaway together, and I think it’s to ease his conscience. This is all very confusing.

…also…

I can’t lie

The activity is also the same as pulling you IN. Camping is what he does, and what you led him to believe you do, too… by DOING it with him all these years.
DOING = men …as… TALKING = women.

I couldn’t imagine having a parent who called me stupid all the time.

ditto.

But he has literally backed out of the room while I’m speaking on many occasions because he wants to get out of the conversation. I really can’t win with him in this regard, he wants me to talk with him, and then when we do, he wants me to shut up.

Been there too. My wife will ask a dictionary or encyclopedia question of me, and then glaze over after three seconds. She did tell me to shut up at the time – all the conversation she wanted from me was a one sentence explanation.
I felt like a talking dictionary, not a husband.

More often would be nice, and I’d like to have him come…

That of course is a future issue… We have to understand him first.

I’m sure he’s unhappy. But we would have a much better time of healing our shared unhappiness if he could be honest and talk to me, tell me when I screw up at least, and not blame all our problems on the fact that I’m going to church every Sunday.

Easier said than done. My wife asked the same of me, and every time I opened my BIG MOUTH … wham. I understand what you want, I want it too of my wife – I don’t know your husband well enough to predict yet what it MEANS to be honest or dishonest. also – strangely enough, mere truth is not always honest. But I will say mere truth rather than lie, as does Jesus.

I scheduled an appt. with the therapist for Monday.

superb.

I just don’t feel this is healthy at all for me to be pushing all this down inside, and only address it for short periods when I have an opportunity. I really would like to explode, and not to a girlfriend or a family member, I’d like to explode all over him. This is unfair. I feel like I’m protecting him. I am protecting him. But he’s hurt me. So it feels just rotten that I am the one who has to protect him.

Yes and no. Pushing the feeling down allows you to get to tommorow without destroying what you say you ultimately want. I had the severe displeasure of ‘hearing’ my mother in law on video tape getting a priest to say my wife could have an annulment – just a year after watching her plot my brother in law’s divorce – and then having my misled brother in law call and scream obscenities at me on the phone because I kicked grandma out of my house…

“Rage” therapy failes to produce good results – immediate gratification, yes, but it is addictive - not curative. Your choice, but open that door – you won’t easily shut it.

Since my BIL was aloof after the phone scream session, I simply wrote a letter when his wife finally left him, and apologized for believing the things my mother in law said about him…

At someone’s suggestion I’ve done some research on sex addiction. I’m not trained in psychology (in fact, I think I dropped it and took sociology instead), but the description seems to fit him. I’m hoping to mention this to the therapist on Monday, get his advice on the sleeping arrangements, as well as his opinion on this getaway my husband wants to plan with me.

Internet sources with sex in them vary greatly in their reliability, most pages of ills seem to sound like most people. My wife thought I was “schizophrenic” first, then “Aspergers autism” when that didn’t work, then my wife had a yelling session at the psychiatrist… then… nevermind. Trust the person with the professional diagnostic training (DSM-IV), you haven’t even taken a psychology class, right?

 

[royal_archer]

As I stated in a previous post, he’s not all that accessible to me. He likes to be dirty. It would sure be nice if he would clean up and go somewhere with me where I could hold his hand and gaze lovingly into his eyes and run my fingers through his hair and make him feel like the king of the world. I’d love to do that. But his hobbies and interests take precedence, and he’s said so. He is selfish, but if I tell him that, his feelings are hurt, he shuts down and hides in the yard with his pipe. I expected him to straighten up with the baby being born, and before I get a lashing for thinking such a thing, we talked about it before we got pregnant. I thought we were on the same page. I quit smoking, and he was going to at least cut down. He specifically said he wanted to set a good example, and start exercising more and eating right and adopting healthier habits. That’s what he said! I didn’t tell him he had to do that, he knew it already. He still says he wants that. I know he’s struggling.

I believe you are trying to get inside his head and under stand and are looking for ways to reconnect so here are a few more thoughts. I have had similar situations as your husband but on different scales and more benign outcomes. When you say “dirty” are you refering to physical cleanliness or a desire to be adventurous in an adult way? ( I am trying to discuss this in as polite a manner as I can). If it is a matter of cleanliness, he might feel you are saying he is not good enough for you. You also say if he got cleaned up, etc, etc, you would reward him with romantic etc, etc. Men see approach many things like foot ball, see ball - get ball. Your grand plan of a romantic evening may be incomprehendible to him. With my wife romance is preceded by a very complex multi step process and if one step of the process is missed no ball. As a result I have gotten to the point of why try, it will only end in dissapointment. Given your behavior over the past few month, or year, is there a chance he feels he does not have a chance with you? Or is there a chance he feels getting your attention is an insurmountable challenge? If so I can understand his frustration. When I get frustrated I will go to the work shop and work on projects, sit out back and smoke a cigar, read, whatch TV, etc. basically shut down.

If that theory is not applicable, Is there a chance the two of you have a different understanding of a what a romantic evening is? If so the two of you may need to talk about expectations and possibly agree on a trade off: tonight dinner and a movie, next week get a baby sitter and “stay in”. (still trying to be polite here). If he feels it is always your way and never his way he may be just trying to get his way. If this isn’t the case and he he just wants his way but never your way then you have an even bigger issue than a single interlude.

When you mentioned “dirty” it reminded me of a scene from
Pink Floyd’s musical Movie/album “The Wall” In the story the charachter finds out his wife is having an affair and then with a storm of emotions and drugs comes to the realization that he desires a “Dirty Woman”. I think it is a good portrayal of depresion in work.

By the way all men want to exercise more, cut back on their bad habits, etc. etc. Unfortunately desire is not the same as intent and that is not the same as action. By the way depression becomes a downward spiral in these areas where failure to follow through with these intents causes more depression which decreases the ability to follow through with these intents.

 

[royal_archer]

I worked till my seventh month of pregnancy when I was laid off. The company I worked for shut down, and moved to China. Not too easy to find a new job when you’re seven months pregnant. But we discussed this, and we both wanted our son to have his mommy. That’s how I was raised, and he wished it had been that way for him, so he said. I think he vacillates between wanting me to work and wanting me home. I’m in school right now to change my career such that I could possibly work from home. I go to school at night two days a week. He gives me enough money for groceries and gasoline. In return I cook most nights when I’m not in school. He does not cook, he rarely even makes himself a sandwich, I feed him. And I mean I cook, I’m not a hamburger helper kinda cook, I don’t cook from cans and boxes for the most part, unless I’m pressed for time. I take care of his laundry, make sure he always has his necessary toiletries. When he’s out of soap and shampoo, it magically appears the next day. Not sure if he even notices that. Now, I do get behind, especially on the laundry, (the toddler goes through three wardrobe changes a day) but I will stay up late or get up early to iron his shirts and make sure he has clean socks and under ware. But you are on to something here, because when I started school, the housework suffered seriously. It was at the same time that I started school that the baby was walking and climbing and getting into everything, and the mess was unlike anything I’ve ever had to deal with in my life. I needed help, but he resents the fact that I need help. So the place is a mess, and I am exhausted. He works a lot of overtime. I have the baby all the time, except for a few hours here and there. I’m a bit burned out. He started complaining about the mess, and when I tell him what I need to get organized and facilitate the work I need to do, like hanging some shelves, baby proofing rooms so I don’t have climb over gates (and subsequently falling with basket of dirty laundry in my arms), or setting aside some time to sort through things we need to give away, he makes excuses. Especially where the house is concerned, we do need a better space to live, but when I ask him to hang a shelf for me, he tells me we need to move. It’s very frustrating. I know he works a lot. He works a whole lot. But that means that I am too, cuz I’m mommy. I’m round the clock at work. I’m the one who bathes the baby, feeds the baby, and everything else although my husband does play with him and will change diapers when he is home. And I do realized that nagging and criticizing gets you nowhere with anyone, but my requests are often ignored till I let them go, then resentment builds up, an argument ensues, and he finally does a chore. I don’t want him to do the laundry, or the dishes, I can’t find anything when he does, and he doesn’t always know what needs to be done first. The only regularly occurring chore I’d seriously appreciate him doing for me is taking out the trash, but he won’t do it unless I ask, and most often I just have to do it myself cuz he’s not here for me to ask. He doesn’t complain when I do catch him and ask though, he just does it, so that’s good.

…

Not to assign guilt to you for others problems but I’ll use my experiences as an example. I leave for work early in the morning while the wife is still in bed. I get home and the house is messy (I frequently notice that the mess contains things that were messy from the previous day.) By the way, the wife is on the computer or watching TV. The kids are blamed for the mess but they have been home for two hours and have been outside playing the entire time. This goes on for weeks untill we know someone is comming over and we can’t make an excuse for them not to and then the house magically gets clean. However, when I get home my wife gets mad that I am not doing my fair share in the evening because I want to relax. I have no problems with my chores including mowing, garbage, and any tasks that involve tools or the dispatching of pests. (Although I frequently forget to take out the garbage.) The problem comes when I don’t perceive her doing her fair share while she asks me to do stuff. This also occasionally results in my finding things to keep me busy that keep me out of the nag zone.

 

[ASimpleSinner]

In a word? Selfishness.

I have not read all 9 pages so I am just jumping in here - forgive if this has been mentioned…

The Pornography industry accounts for $13,000,000,000 in sales annually just in the domestic market. That is thirteen-BILLION with a capital “B”. The revenues exceed all major pro-sports franchises combined. At the heart of this industry is a selfishness combined with an addiction - a serious addiction that people laugh off or make jokes about… a serious addiction we are going to see a great deal more of as the first generation whose average age of first exposure to porn (mostly via the internet) is age 11.

Different studies demonstrate correlations between long term consumption and needs and desires to (1) act out and (2) accelorate the titilation. In other words, what starts out as a pin-up girl becomes unsastisfying - “vanilla” nudes lead to more hardcore, graphic, and increasingly fetishized tastes.

I suspect that in the course of looking at studies on men who cheat via “sex workers” correlations will be found with pornography.

 

[Scanner]

Grace,

You accused me of equating offering an explanation with offering an excuse.

Prior to that post, I must have posted about 3 or 4 times I wasn’t trying to excuse the act of seeing a prostitute.

At this point, I don’t know what to say. I am exasperated with you…

You apparently have some bone to pick with the prostitution industry. . .and you want to project that bone onto me. I’m sure the prostitution industry does a lot of societal harm every year.

My conscience is clear on my acts. . .do I have passing lustful thoughts? I am certain I do.

Really, next time, no one should ask the question of why do men see prostitutes or why do men look at porn?

It should be a simpleton intellectual operation:

1. Man see prostitute.
2. Man bad. Man very bad.
3. Punish man.
4. Man repent.

Discussion closed.

Right?

I really don’t care. . .hey as a man, we have always had to take the blame for being the heavy.

Women are the repository of morals and decency.

Men are the bad guys, right?

Hey, that’s cool.

 

[DeusCaritasEst]

Really, next time, no one should ask the question of why do men see prostitutes or why do men look at porn?

It should be a simpleton intellectual operation:

1. Man see prostitute.
2. Man bad. Man very bad.
3. Punish man.
4. Man repent.

Discussion closed.

Right?

Your answer here is a judgment on the acts rather than an explanation of them. I asked the question so I could understand better what I’m dealing with here. A few really brave men have been beaten up in the process, including yourself, thanks to you and to all of them for trying to help.

Most of the explanations I’ve received and responded to have been about why a fella would want to see a prostitute. Believe it or not, I get that, it just irritates me when the gals are blamed for the guys wanting it even though the guys admit they’d want it anyway, they just wouldn’t entertain the idea as often if the wife were… different? nicer? better looking? skinnier? less nag-y? could cook a chicken every now and then? or what have you…

I’m seriously asking what pushes a man over the line from entertaining the idea too much to actually following through with it. Because it’s sick and disordered to do such a thing. To think about it is one thing. I’ve had lots of thoughts that are sick and disordered. Actions speak louder than words as they say.

Some of the advice I’ve been given here about his acts being a display of hostility towards me, and possible sex addiction make sense, especially when paired with his childhood experience and who his parents are, and how they treated him. I lean towards these more serious causes because it’s more serious to act out than to simply entertain a thought. This has also become progressively worse over the course of many years.

I’ll let the therapist decide if he’s really sick or not. If he is, well then I did take a vow to stand by him in sickness, didn’t I? True, he’s violated his vows, but obviously that doesn’t give me an excuse to violate mine. And I didn’t take a marriage prep, but from what I understand, at the end of the prep a question is asked of the couple to see how they would handle it if they found out their spouse had been unfaithful. The deacon I heard telling the story said most couples have the wrong answer to that question: “kick him/her out!” I have to try to work this out with him if I’m to be forgiving as I hope for myself to be forgiven. Nobody ever said marriage was easy, or that it’s even easy to be a good Christian. And you know what? I don’t want to be a saint. Most of those people lived with some serious misery! So, I’ve got to work through taking up and even loving my cross, which right now is most definitely my husband.

I honestly asked the question to come to an understanding of my enemy. Not that my husband is truly my enemy, but what he has done is definitely an act against solidarity, an act against our marriage, and my marriage is something I need to protect. Until I find out that there really is no marriage here to protect, I have to believe there is, and I have to work on it. May God grant us strength getting through this awful process. May my husband hear Jesus calling him, and may we both take up our crosses and follow.

 

[whatevergirl]

I was thinking about you yesterday, after I posted, DCE. I will keep you in my prayers…

Although we need to be there to support our spouses through the bad times…I don’t believe that marriage was designed by God to be a cross, and nothing more. I believe that marriage was designed to draw two people closer together, and help them to flourish, and bring great joy to them. I have a hard time believing that we are to stay in marriages where we are being continuously trampled on and the other person refuses to change. That just doesn’t seem like God’s intent for marriage. Yes, we have crosses to bear–but what happens if a marriage becomes nothing but a source of pain and angst for a person? I think we are called to honor our vows, but in all I’ve read about marriage, it was never designed to be a source for someone to dump on us for a life time.

 

[royal_archer]

…
Most of the explanations I’ve received and responded to have been about why a fella would want to see a prostitute. Believe it or not, I get that, it just irritates me when the gals are blamed for the guys wanting it even though the guys admit they’d want it anyway, they just wouldn’t entertain the idea as often if the wife were… different? nicer? better looking? skinnier? less nag-y? could cook a chicken every now and then? or what have you…

If suggestions for change are directed at you there is a simple reason. You can only change your behavior. If your husband were posting here, Many of us would be giving different advice to him related to his changing his behavior. Also please recongnize that each of us bring our own baggage to the discussion. Although several men have commented and there seem to be a few common themes although we can only comment on what is going through our minds given our situation. You have to decide what thoughts here apply to your situation.

 

[Huiou_Theou]

Your answer here is a judgment on the acts rather than an explanation of them. I asked the question so I could understand better what I’m dealing with here. A few really brave men have been beaten up in the process, including yourself, thanks to you and to all of them for trying to help.

Most of the explanations I’ve received and responded to have been about why a fella would want to see a prostitute. Believe it or not, I get that, it just irritates me when the gals are blamed for the guys wanting it even though the guys admit they’d want it anyway…

DCE, there are only so many words one can write …
I can’t explain everything at once (or even remember it), but I would say this, your response here saddens me a little bit at my failure to communicate everything – so rather that go into huge detail, let me just say: Honest men are irritated by the problem as well, that’s why it is called “temptation” or even a “severe temptation” to men.

I’m seriously asking what pushes a man over the line from entertaining the idea too much to actually following through with it. Because it’s sick and disordered to do such a thing. To think about it is one thing. I’ve had lots of thoughts that are sick and disordered. Actions speak louder than words as they say.

Yes, and there are a variety of reasons – not all of us have had exactly your husband’s experience, so many of the details are not obvious even to us.
Wealthy men (not your husband?) strangely often go to the cheapest prostitutes they can find – why?
It seems that even a pervert would want a prostitute less likely to have diseases, and be willing to pay more (as in a mistress, like my ex-brother in law – who was NOT rich at the time…)

But from interviews with these particular sinners as a group the logic often has to do with the thrill of getting a better business deal under bad odds! eg: – it’s a gambling addiction too!

I’ll let the therapist decide if he’s really sick or not. If he is, well then I did take a vow to stand by him in sickness, didn’t I? True, he’s violated his vows, …
…
I have to try to work this out with him if I’m to be forgiving as I hope for myself to be forgiven.

This brings tears to my eyes. It is so true, and Jesus like, but there a little more to be said. We do sometimes need a cross, and a spouse may be given by God to fill that role – although the purpose of that kind of cross is a change in the marriage and even perhaps in one person’s very soul.

It’s hard to describe without being technical, but the body is something of an obstacle course of activities and feelings which can only be satisfied by a correct combination of choices. In a word, these combinations are called love.

When a man loves as he is made, and a woman does too (which is different) – they work together to make each other joyful. However, not everyones body/soul are tailored to their spouse’s. Sometimes a combination of weakness in one person makes them less damaging to another person with a different set of weaknesses. So when one changes as you have – so does the way they interact with their spouse, and they must change yet MORE in virtuous and often non-obvious ways to aid their spose where they are.

Many of these changes take at least two years to become permanent… so they require patience, and perserverance to encourage – and the best way to encourage them (even bilogically) are the wisdom and guidance of the church.

On the subject of the vow:
A vow is something one takes, and it is something which may be violated utterly.
Since the direct breaking of a marriage vow is always non-loving, and potentially so very serious – (and the man is sinning against his OWN body, you) the church does not REQUIRE everyone in an adultury situation to stay in the same house with their spouse, and this is part of your vow in a catholic marriage (by consenting to marriage as the church teaches when it was blessed).

Can. 1152 §1 It is earnestly recommended that a spouse, motivated by christian charity and solicitous for the good of the family, should not refuse to pardon an adulterous partner and should not sunder the conjugal life. Nevertheless, if that spouse has not either expressly or tacitly condoned the other’s fault, he or she has the right to sever the common conjugal life, provided he or she has not consented to the adultery, nor been the cause of it, nor also committed adultery.

emphasis, mine.

I can’t explain this conditional statement yet (tacit condoning being a sticky area where ignorance can cause problems), but I think you need to see this.

In your case, if the act of your husband had been anything except adultury, I would agree with the deacon wholly. The deacon is right, but not totally.

When Jesus spoke of the exception to marriage – pornea – he was speaking about this very weakness (and somtimes even blatant evil) in a spouse.

Jesus was speaking to non-Catholics who had permission to divorce under the law of Moses. The phrase in scriputre about adultury (Pornea in Greek) is any of several sexual indulgences against the design of marriage – including the obvious sound alike (pornography) which literally means to draw the prostitute. There are victims of pornea, and there are the very creators of it.

Until I find out that there really is no marriage here to protect, I have to believe there is …

Amen, Amen.
You are in my prayers.
More later as the ideas unfold, and I understand you more.

 

[Huiou_Theou]

In a word? Selfishness.
…
I suspect that in the course of looking at studies on men who cheat via “sex workers” correlations will be found with pornography.

Yes, indeed, when I looked up some statistics – and found out Norway’s permissive approach, I was sad to note that on the news flash from Norway, a picture of an acutal prostitute in a pseudo marital sexual position was displayed in the upper right corner. By definitinon – that is pornography – the drawing (picture) of a prostitute.

Also, since prostitutes themselves advertise their services on the web – I would imagine (though I won’t check) that many of them post pictures of at least part of their body which is being offered for condom based masterbation…

So, I assume you mean pornography other than the obvious kinds I am pointing out… but then, how would the statistics differentiate…?

 

[Long_Island_Bob]

Deus,

You are doing very well so far. the cross you bear is a heavy one and you are carrying it like a pro. I have put a lot of thought and some prayer into this and I think it is time for me to respond on several levels, your kids, our faith.

I’ll offer some practical (and financial) advice in a follow-up.

First, your kids.
The children of abusers (and their victims) are likely to become abusers or victims as adults.
The children of alcoholics (and their spouses) are likely to become alcoholics (or spouses of one) when they grow into adults.
The children of self-centered whore-mongering louts . . . you get the idea.

There is no way absolutely zero that you are going to tolerate this long term. You will NOT do that to your children. Either he will change or you will get a permanent separation and if that causes divorce so be it.

Second, Faith
From 1582 until the 1940’s there was exactly one Catholic translation of the Bible into English, the Douay-Rheims Bible.

Here according to the Douay-Rheims translation is what Jesus said on separation and divorce according to Matthew (the only gospel writer who actually met Jesus)

Matthew 5 (Sermon on the Mount)
31 And it hath been said, whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a bill of divorce. 32 But I say to you, that whosoever shall put away his wife,** excepting for the cause of fornication**, maketh her to commit adultery: and he that shall marry her that is put away, committeth adultery.
drbo.org/chapter/47005.htm

Matthew 19
7 They say to him: Why then did Moses command to give a bill of divorce, and to put away? 8 He saith to them: Because Moses by reason of the hardness of your heart permitted you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you, that whosoever shall put away his wife,** except it be for fornication,** and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and he that shall marry her that is put away, committeth adultery. 10 His disciples say unto him: If the case of a man with his wife be so, it is not expedient to marry.
drbo.org/chapter/47019.htm

emphasis mine

And direct from the Vatican, here is what the catechism says:

2383 The separation of spouses while maintaining the marriage bond can be legitimate in certain cases provided for by canon law.176
If civil divorce remains the only possible way of ensuring certain legal rights, the care of the children, or the protection of inheritance, it can be tolerated and does not constitute a moral offense.

2386 It can happen that one of the spouses is the innocent victim of a divorce decreed by civil law; this spouse therefore has not contravened the moral law. There is a considerable difference between a spouse who has sincerely tried to be faithful to the sacrament of marriage and is unjustly abandoned, and one who through his own grave fault destroys a canonically valid marriage.178

Notice the little 176 above? that refers to a section of canon law written by Pope John Paul II himself.

It reads:

CIC Canons 1151-1155
Can. 1151—Spouses have the duty and the right to preserve conjugal living unless a legitimate cause excuses them.
Can. 1152—§ 1. Although it is earnestly recommended that a spouse, moved by Christian charity and a concern for the good of the family, not refuse pardon to an adulterous partner and not break up conjugal life, nevertheless, if the spouse has not expressly or tacitly condoned the misdeed of the other spouse, the former does have the right to sever conjugal living, unless he or she consented to the adultery, gave cause for it, or likewise committed adultery.
§ 2. Tacit condonation exists if the innocent spouse, after having become aware of the adultery, continued voluntarily to live with the other spouse in marital affection. Tacit condonation is presumed if the innocent spouse continued conjugal living for a period of six months and has not had recourse to ecclesiastical or civil authority.
§ 3. If the innocent spouse spontaneously severed conjugal living, that spouse within six months is to bring a suit for separation before the competent ecclesiastical authority; this authority, after having investigated all the circumstances, is to decide whether the innocent spouse can be induced to forgive the misdeed and not to prolong the separation permanently.
Can. 1153—§ 1. If either of the spouses causes serious danger of spirit or body to the other spouse or to the children, or otherwise renders common life too hard, that spouse gives the other a legitimate cause for separating in virtue of a decree of the local ordinary, or even on his or her own authority if there is danger in delay.
§ 2. In all cases, when the reason for the separation ceases to exist, conjugal living is to be restored unless ecclesiastical authority decides otherwise.
Can. 1154—After the separation of the spouses, suitable provision is to be made for the adequate support and education of the children.
Can. 1155—The innocent spouse can laudably readmit the other spouse to conjugal life, in which case the former renounces the right to separate.

kofc.org/publications/cis/catechism/getreftext.cfm?PartNum=2&SecNum=2&ChapNum=3&FParnum=1690&FnoteNum=159&NoteText=159%20Cf.%20FC%2083%3B%20CIC%2C%20cann.%201151-1155.

**In short, **you will not be a doormat.
You will not raise your kids to be doormats.
You will not put your kids at risk of following in your husbands’ footsteps.
Either he will straighten-up or you will dump him and if that leads him to divorce you so be it.

I’m praying for you.

 

[Long_Island_Bob]

On a practical side the law in most states reads that any property (including cash and paychecks) acquired by either partner during a marriage is joint property of each, even if the paycheck has his name on it an not yours. Even if he places that paycheck into a bank account that has his name on it and not yours.

The fact that he behaves otherwise is just one more sign of his selfishness.

“The only money I receive is what he gives me,” should not be an issue.

Half the money he has put into retirement since you married is yours. Half his truck, (if he bought it after you married) is yours. Half the value of his insurance polices. half of what he earns from any education or job training he received after you married is yours. Period, that’s the law (in most states) and if you legally separate he can be legally compelled to fork over to half of every dollar and half of every book and half of every vehicle etc. that he got after he married you.

Child support comes above and beyond that, if you are legally separated, even without divorce.

I am not encouraging you to get a separation. By far the BEST option is for him to straighten up and become a man. However you options and your financial situation are probably not as dire as you feel they are.

Also, I noticed you are going to classes. If you do not already have a first bachelor’s degree then you should seriously consider going full-time in the fall. The financial aid available to parents (whether married separated or divorced) who are full-time students is quite generous and is designed to pay for food and housing. See your financial aid office, bring your tax forms and do not leave until the counselor gives you some specific numbers.

You DO have options.

 

[Scanner]

I’m seriously asking what pushes a man over the line from entertaining the idea too much to actually following through with it. Because it’s sick and disordered to do such a thing

Deus,

Okay, that’s a fair question. . .Grace told me what it was that kept me/keeps me from going through with it. . .and I think her summary was great. .so here’s one thing that I think pushes a man to do it (although it could be a lot of things).

I told the forum that on a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being I’m seeing a prostitute right now that normally I am a 1 or 2/3.

Well, the 2 or 3 is an average I gave to the forum. 99.9% of the time I am a 1. . .never crosses my mind. It’s just not on my daily “To Do” list.

1. Take out garbage
2. Rebalance portfolio
3. Take kids to band practice
4. Call Bambi the Hooker

That’s not my m.o.

One time though, I was very angry and frustrated at my wife regarding sex. I went on the internet and found a site, and sent the prostitute an email.

That’s as far as I got (so call this a 7. . .maybe a 5, I don’t know). I never got a response. . .don’t know if I would have done it. I probably would have chickened out.

If a prostitute was savvy enough and knew enough to prey upon my temptations, she may have been able to “hook me”; I don’t know.

I know I was particularly angry at the time, very angry, along with frustrated.

So anger could be one motivator to do something impulsive.

So. . .I kinda averaged that one time when I was a 7 with all the other ones to come up with a 2 or 3.

Truthfully, I think I am more susceptible to an affair, a woman showing me affection than seeing a prostitute. . .the prostitute actually seems like a compromise to an affair (in a screwball, disordered thinking kind of way as you would put it).

Again, I feel I must disclaimer - none of this thinking is to be excused in any way or justified. . .it’s only “is what it is”.

You asked. . .so go ahead and have 10 coniptions if you want. . .but you asked.

And I don’t want to overextapolate any of my thinking to the your situation. . .anger/frustration may have nothing to do with it. It could be boredom (Sloth) or any other factor, probably one of the Capital Sins.

Gluttony for instance. . .your husband may be a glutton for sex.

 

[ChristianWAB]

I’m fairly certain my husband has been with a prostitute or two by now. I’m trying to get him into counseling, but not sure how much good it will do since he seems unwilling to be truthful. It’s a terrible situation.

Wow, you seem remarkably calm about this whole situation! That, in and of itself, amazes me.

As for WHY men go to prostitutes… well, for starters, I’ve never gone to one, but I was tempted on a couple of occasions. Fortunately, the temptation du jour never seems to override my common sense to the point where I would ever follow through on it.

I’ve often believed that we as humans (especially as Catholics) have to fight off very primal urges almost on a daily basis. A new woman brings new excitement; a surge of adrenalin if you will.

I’m happily married, but a really attractive bagger at the grocery store I frequent was very flirty with me on a couple of occasions. As recently as last week, she moved from another register to the one I was in to bag my groceries and chat with me. She’s extremely flirty, insanely attractive and, yes, she poses a very real temptation for me.

I get this surge all over me, almost like a drug or something. My brain goes in places it really shouldn’t go and I start envisioning exciting scenarios. It’s at a point now where I’m strongly considering shopping further away from my house, just to get away from the temptation before it gets to be too much for me to handle.

A prostitute is little more than the physical manifestation of virtually whatever mental fantasy a guy might have. Like any other good or service one might seek, she charges a fee to help you live out this fantasy. You pay the fee, experience the fantasy and leave with no strings attached.

A guy I used to hang out with had a steady GF, but would hit this Asian massage parlor like once a week. He’d tell me how great it was, etc, and wanted me to check it out. I wasn’t even seeing anybody, yet I just couldn’t go through with it. Maybe your husband tried it once and got hooked on the fantasy.

Whatever it is, I’m afraid you need to be firm with him on this one, but get SOLID proof before delivering any ultimatums. I hate to suggest it, but maybe a PI might come in handy with this situation.

 

[jules11]

I always like to disclose I am the World’s Worst Catholic so people know when I am posting that I am the furthest thing from an apologist as you can get.

Maybe I’ll put it on my signature so I don’t have to keep disclosing it.

Give Scanner a break… don’t think he meant any harm. He was just answering the question that was asked. I didn’t take it that he thought it was right or that he would consider doing it.

 

[Altesse]

I went through his cell phone and found a number for a $100 prostitute. I found her ad on the net by searching for the phone number. He called the number last Thursday. He received a call from the same number Sunday a half hour after he withdrew $300 from his checking account @ noon. I came home from church just before 1:00, and found dozens of web searches for local prostitutes. I called him several times to no answer until he called back at 1:45. He was supposed to be hiking, that’s what he lead me to believe he was doing when he dropped our son off at church. I told him I wanted to ask him to leave. He came home a couple of hours later and we seriously discussed divorce. He said he does not want to get divorced, but he does not want to go to counseling either. He finally conceded to counseling, but probably because he was coerced.

Immediately after going to the bank, he bought a travel toothbrush from a pharmacy. I saw a charge for a couple of dollars, and found the toothbrush, still moist, in his truck last night. I took the toothbrush, and a bunch of little notes with girl’s names and numbers, some of which had characteristics written next to the names such as “pretty” “nice” “good looking” “black”. The number called from his cell phone was one of these numbers.

So that’s what I know, and that’s why I want to have his bag packed tonight when he gets home.

I know my worth, but I’m scared. I am a stay at home mom, the only money I receive is what he gives me. I could probably pay rent by myself next week, but I wouldn’t last even a couple of months on my own savings, and to get the baby into day care, and find a job as well, I just don’t know how I’d do it. I’m also in school, although there’s only a few weeks left of that.

If only I knew what to say to him. I don’t know what he’s thinking, but I can guess whatever it is he’s thinking, it’s disturbed.

Before you pack his bags and boot him, get a lawyer!

The lawyer can write up a legal separation and file emergency motions to protect you financially. Your husband would be required to pay support and would be restricted from hiding/squandering money. Custody and visitation would also be included.

A legal separation is not a divorce, it is a legal document outlining terms for a specific situaion. When the situation no longer requires those terms, a new legal document is filed, revoking the previous document. The marriage is as legally intact as it was when you married.

Ditto the other poster about getting tested for diseases, he should be too.
(I took some classes in LE in my city. When discussing “liviability crimes” such as prostituion, it was mentioned that as many as 95% of the prostitutes in the city were HIV positive, many also had HepB (Hepatitis B is the most infectious bloodborne pathogen known) and other equally nasty STDs. They (prostitutes) are often referred to as “walking Petri dishes”.)

Do not consent to live as his wife if he persists in treating you with such little regard. You are his WIFE and the MOTHER of HIS CHILDREN.

Counseling is a must.
Read this:
menscenter.org/resources.php?article_id=10

 

[mdluffy90]

Isn’t It obvious?
Theres more to sex than the regular old “missionary” routine . Men get tired of it, and see their wives as boring. Unless if they are with somebody who knows what they are doing, than thats what they want. I can understand it from there perspective, but its still wrong. People like this need to be prayed for. Its not there fault their partners are inexperienced. But thats okay. Being inexperienced can usually mean pure innocense inside, which is very good. Still, there are tapes and books where people can learn different positions, and differnet techniques on sex. Othere things, like fantasizing can spice up the relationship in a marraige. And in the case where the women were good, but just past their prime, and don’t feel like doing it anymore; as older men, we got to show our wives that they still got it, because usually, thats when the sex gets boring. A women hits menopause, and she doesn’t want to do it any more. As men, we also need to know what we are doing in bed as well. That can bring your older wife running back. Also, women too, can get bored. This can make a man insecure and run to a different woman to feel wanted. And she doesn’t have to be a prostitute. Thats why different sexual techniques, positions, and prayer are crucial in bringing back fire in our marraigies. It really doesn’t hurt to pray. In fact that should be done first, then you can take care of the physical needs afterwards.

Fantasies are also very good too. As long as there isn’t anything fantasized that is immoral like two or three more women, and its being done with you partner, i don’t see why it shouldn’t be done. I’m also not saying we should picture angelina jolie or Jennifer Anniston, or in my case, Kim Kardashain and Bria Myles (I luv curvy women).
We should dress up, do role play, and then have intercourse. That can make things more exciting. The man can feel as though he is in a different situation with his women, and that can be a major turn on for a man.
I don’t believe that God is angry at us when we fantasize. As long as we are thinking about our partners, in a situation where they might be dressed up differently, and they might pretend to have a different profession, and the man is their client.
I’m not talking about prostitution, i’m talking about the women pretending to being a teacher, or a nurse, and her husband pretending to be a student or a patient. Or the man is the president of his company, and his wife is his sexy secretary.That makes things more exciting for a man. And it can also make things much more exciting for women.
Remember we should try

 

[royal_archer]

Isn’t It obvious?
Theres more to sex than the regular old “missionary” routine . Men get tired of it, and see their wives as boring. Unless if they are with somebody who knows what they are doing, than thats what they want. I can understand it from there perspective, but its still wrong. People like this need to be prayed for. Its not there fault their partners are inexperienced. But thats okay. Being inexperienced can usually mean pure innocense inside, which is very good. Still, there are tapes and books where people can learn different positions, and differnet techniques on sex. Othere things, like fantasizing can spice up the relationship in a marraige. And in the case where the women were good, but just past their prime, and don’t feel like doing it anymore; as older men, we got to show our wives that they still got it, because usually, thats when the sex gets boring. A women hits menopause, and she doesn’t want to do it any more. As men, we also need to know what we are doing in bed as well. That can bring your older wife running back. Also, women too, can get bored. This can make a man insecure and run to a different woman to feel wanted. And she doesn’t have to be a prostitute. Thats why different sexual techniques, positions, and prayer are crucial in bringing back fire in our marraigies. It really doesn’t hurt to pray. In fact that should be done first, then you can take care of the physical needs afterwards.

Fantasies are also very good too. As long as there isn’t anything fantasized that is immoral like two or three more women, and its being done with you partner, i don’t see why it shouldn’t be done. I’m also not saying we should picture angelina jolie or Jennifer Anniston, or in my case, Kim Kardashain and Bria Myles (I luv curvy women).
We should dress up, do role play, and then have intercourse. That can make things more exciting. The man can feel as though he is in a different situation with his women, and that can be a major turn on for a man.
I don’t believe that God is angry at us when we fantasize. As long as we are thinking about our partners, in a situation where they might be dressed up differently, and they might pretend to have a different profession, and the man is their client.
I’m not talking about prostitution, i’m talking about the women pretending to being a teacher, or a nurse, and her husband pretending to be a student or a patient. Or the man is the president of his company, and his wife is his sexy secretary.That makes things more exciting for a man. And it can also make things much more exciting for women.
Remember we should try

Sometimes it is not just the variety that makes the relationship interesting; it is the fact that the partner is willing to go out of their way for the other partner.

 

[mrpathetic]

Why do men do this? Why do they engage in any act of adultery?

The answer is simple: selfishness. They put themselves first. They put their spouse, and God, last.

If they were humble and obedient to God, they would not even consider such things. Humility is the opposite of selfishness.

I have not had sex with my wife in nearly 2 decades. I suffer from extreme sexual tension and frustration. Nevertheless, I would never even think about using a prostitute. The mere thought of that is disgusting to me. Why? Because it is repugnant to God, so it is repugnant to me.