Why do Modern Popes Embrace Idolatry?

[shoewindow3000]

Recent Popes have attended meetings or festivals with leaders of other faiths, such as Islam, Buddhism, etc. The Pope is the leader of the Catholic Church, which is the fullness of God’s revealed truth to mankind. Every soul on earth is called by God to come to the Church, and for the Pope to (implicitly) accept idolatry is CONTRADICTORY to his mission as a Christian!

Let me make my point this way…

Do you honestly think that the first pope, the Apostle Peter, traveled to Greece and said to the temple leaders of the Greeks gods,
“Hey there guys! Lets all dance together. I will worship God, while you worship your idols. It’s all good!”

             **OF COURSE NOT!**

He traveled to pagan populations to tell them about Christianity, not to have get-togethers!! As a matter of fact, he was killed by the Roman authorities for doing just that!

Why are Popes today so afraid to do this? They should put politics aside and place more importance on the real matters! I find the judgment of God to be of infinitely more importance than the judgment of the media.

To be a friend of God is to be an enemy of the world, and to be friends with the world is to be an enemy of God!

I know that the Church will always prevail, because it is founded and kept alive by Christ, but this is crazy what the Popes have been doing!

 

[m134e5]

Recent Popes have attended meetings or festivals with leaders of other faiths, such as Islam, Buddhism, etc. The Pope is the leader of the Catholic Church, which is the fullness of God’s revealed truth to mankind. Every soul on earth is called by God to come to the Church, and for the Pope to (implicitly) accept idolatry is CONTRADICTORY to his mission as a Christian!

Let me make my point this way…

Do you honestly think that the first pope, the Apostle Peter, traveled to Greece and said to the temple leaders of the Greeks gods,
“Hey there guys! Lets all dance together. I will worship God, while you worship your idols. It’s all good!”

OF COURSE NOT!

He traveled to pagan populations to tell them about Christianity, not to have get-togethers!! As a matter of fact, he was killed by the Roman authorities for doing just that!

Why are Popes today so afraid to do this? They should put politics aside and place more importance on the real matters! I find the judgment of God to be of infinitely more importance than the judgment of the media.

To be a friend of God is to be an enemy of the world, and to be friends with the world is to be an enemy of God!

How long before a Pope comes along who realizes this problem?!

People have to learn to talk to each other these days- they have to learn to get along, and set aside differences in even strongly-held beliefs for the sake of peace. If they don’t, with the technology we have these days, mankind would tear the world apart. How would things have worked differently had Pope John Paul II been as bold as you think he should have been when he wanted to visit Poland? The communists wouldn’t have let him! The Israeli government *certainly *wouldn’t have allowed him there if he was planning to go there just to try and convert people. We have to be a lot more subtle nowadays if we are going to survive. Subtlety isn’t bad- it can still accomplish great things- it just requires more patience. Patience- a virtue our world could really stand to learn more of these days. We get mad when our airplane is 10 minutes late and it just flew across the country. 150 years ago, stagecoaches would regularly be at least a day late without explanation.

 

[thunderballs75]

Dialogue with believers and leaders of other religions is fine. The problem comes when we try to compromise the True Faith, and when we kiss Qurans, pray in Jewish Synagogues. or when our Pope receives blessings from Jewish “rabbis”.

 

[shoewindow3000]

Dialogue with believers and leaders of other religions is fine. The problem comes when we try to compromise the True Faith, and when we kiss Qurans, pray in Jewish Synagogues. or when our Pope receives blessings from Jewish “rabbis”.

If that is the logic, then why not have a “dialogue” with the church of satan? It is the** SAME THING**, except that in Buddhism, Islam, Hinduism Taoism, etc. the demonic influence is not as apparent! The only faiths to really have a dialogue with are Judaism, Orthodox churches, and Protestants.

Ultimately, it seems more politics than anything. At best, you would get an agreement to disagree, smile for the cameras, and go home. Maybe some people would become Catholic, but the whole thing always seemed so silly and ridiculous.

 

[Religio71]

Dialogue with believers and leaders of other religions is fine. The problem comes when we try to compromise the True Faith, and when we kiss Qurans, pray in Jewish Synagogues. or when our Pope receives blessings from Jewish “rabbis”.

Completely agree with this! There are photos of the Apostolic nuncio lighting candles on a table with Hindu statues at some “ecumenical” meeting. There are articles about priests embracing Zen Buddhism. And of course the above mentioned by thunderballs.

This needs to stop!

 

[LilyM]

Completely agree with this! There are photos of the Apostolic nuncio lighting candles on a table with Hindu statues at some “ecumenical” meeting. There are articles about priests embracing Zen Buddhism. And of course the above mentioned by thunderballs.

This needs to stop!

Let’s put the shoe on the other foot - what would you think if the Dalai Lama went to a meeting with the Pope, received a gift of a Bible from him and kissed it? Then received a blessing from Pope Benedict?

Would you HONESTLY say ‘yippee, he’s embracing Christianity/Catholicism!’ ‘He’s converting!’ ‘He’s not a Buddhist/less of a Buddhist’! If you would, I’ve got a bridge in Brooklyn I’d like to sell you …

Listen, one gesture, as long as it is not an actual act of worship in another faith, does not make or break a person’s Catholicism - or Buddhism in the case of the DL - which is the product of a lfetime. You firstly need to look at the person’s sum total of words and actions. And then at the context of the gesture as well.

I’m guessing you know next door to nothing about these people who you are criticising. For all you know the blessing at least was sprung on the poor man without any forewarning.

As an example, just the other week I met a nun and showed her a necklace with a cross on it which had been given to me. She then proceeded to bless it as a priest or deacon would. I know that wasn’t kosher, but it was done without any consent on my part. Yet I’m sure if I’d been Pope Benedict and a photo had been taken - well, all manner of rubbish would’ve been written about it.

Would you have me say no to her and turn my back? Yell and argue with her? Slap the poor lady in the face or something? Any such gesture would be a fantastic example of being all things to all men in order to save some.

Didn’t Paul literally say ‘when I was among Jews I acted as a Jew’? To the extent of having poor Timothy circumcised so as not to offend the Jews among whom he was working?

Please please do NOT take my comments as meaning that I think anything and everythign goes in the name of ecumenism - not in the least. I’m just saying don’t be quick to presume either that you know the whole story behind a gesture, or that any and every effort to find common ground with people of other faiths is wrong.

 

[theAuthor]

Ultimately, it seems more politics than anything. At best, you would get an agreement to disagree, smile for the cameras, and go home. Maybe some people would become Catholic, but the whole thing always seemed so silly and ridiculous.

I think that’s all it is. Smile for the cameras.

People have to learn to talk to each other these days- they have to learn to get along, and set aside differences in even strongly-held beliefs for the sake of peace. If they don’t, with the technology we have these days, mankind would tear the world apart.

Yes. We’re also a bit more educated and less barbaric than times of yore as well. I think it’s a sign of humanity developing.

 

[chosen_people]

Dialogue with believers and leaders of other religions is fine. The problem comes when we try to compromise the True Faith, and when we kiss Qurans, pray in Jewish Synagogues. or when our Pope receives blessings from Jewish “rabbis”.

Now just two simple questions: Do you believe that Jews embrace idolatry???

Why the placing of quotation marks around "Jewish “rabbis” " (sic!)?

 

[Tradycja]

Completely agree with this! There are photos of the Apostolic nuncio lighting candles on a table with Hindu statues at some “ecumenical” meeting. There are articles about priests embracing Zen Buddhism. And of course the above mentioned by thunderballs.

This needs to stop!

Amen, brother.

 

[iluvburpees]

Amen, brother.

x2

We must “pray very much for the pope,” as Our Lady of Fatima told us. He needs our prayers.

Get into the habit of praying one Our Father, Hail Mary, and Glory Be for the Holy Father at the end of your Rosaries. If everyone did that, we might not have any of this idolatry.

 

[Godfollower]

So Paul, standing in the middle of the Areopagus, said: "Men of Athens, I perceive that in every way you are very religious. For as I passed along, and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription, `To an unknown god.’ What therefore you worship as unknown, this I proclaim to you.

Acts 17:22-23.

 

[A.Pelliccio]

It is nonsense and should cease immediately. During the time of the martyrs in Rome, Catholics were put to death for not offering the emperor a pinch of incense as sacrifice. Who are we to betray such a noble lineage and history?

I am currently station in Al Hillah, Iraq. Last week was some religious holiday for the shia moslems, and here on the camp they set aside a room for them. A few of the locals who are my friends asked one of my Soldiers to go into the room, burn the incense, light a candle and make a wish. Sadly enough, he did it. Nevertheless, this here is once Sergeant who would rather end up on Al Jazzera losing my head before I betray Christ.

 

[DavidJoseph]

Recent Popes have attended meetings or festivals with leaders of other faiths, such as Islam, Buddhism, etc. The Pope is the leader of the Catholic Church, which is the fullness of God’s revealed truth to mankind. Every soul on earth is called by God to come to the Church, and for the Pope to (implicitly) accept idolatry is CONTRADICTORY to his mission as a Christian!

Let me make my point this way…

Do you honestly think that the first pope, the Apostle Peter, traveled to Greece and said to the temple leaders of the Greeks gods,
“Hey there guys! Lets all dance together. I will worship God, while you worship your idols. It’s all good!”

             **OF COURSE NOT!**

He traveled to pagan populations to tell them about Christianity, not to have get-togethers!! As a matter of fact, he was killed by the Roman authorities for doing just that!

Why are Popes today so afraid to do this? They should put politics aside and place more importance on the real matters! I find the judgment of God to be of infinitely more importance than the judgment of the media.

To be a friend of God is to be an enemy of the world, and to be friends with the world is to be an enemy of God!

I know that the Church will always prevail, because it is founded and kept alive by Christ, but this is crazy what the Popes have been doing!

NO modern pope has embraced idolatry! To make such an outrageous claim is to commit the sin of rash judgment. Do you believe the Holy Father should ignore non-Christians? Or would you rather him reach out to them as a means to help lead them to Christ?

 

[iluvburpees]

It is nonsense and should cease immediately. During the time of the martyrs in Rome, Catholics were put to death for not offering the emperor a pinch of incense as sacrifice. Who are we to betray such a noble lineage and history?

I am currently station in Al Hillah, Iraq. Last week was some religious holiday for the shia moslems, and here on the camp they set aside a room for them. A few of the locals who are my friends asked one of my Soldiers to go into the room, burn the incense, light a candle and make a wish. Sadly enough, he did it. Nevertheless, this here is once Sergeant who would rather end up on Al Jazzera losing my head before I betray Christ.

Nice post.

 

[Earnest_Bunbury]

Authentic dialogue accepts that there are differences between the parties involved as opposed to downplaying the differences to highlight the similarities to come to a false peace. This is what truth and acceptance of the truth is about. We talk to fellow humans from a position of respect and from truth because God is the Creator of both. Truth doesn’t cease to be true because of the religion that person professes is in large part, but not completely, contrary to the one true religion of Catholicism. Respect for others is in large part respect for God.

There is hate in condemning someone because of their beliefs and in condemning someones action while judging them as heretical when they are Jesus’ representative on earth. This is no different from judging Jesus for eating with sinners.

Our Church is not merely a series of doctrines to be assented to, “or else”. It is an “I - Thou” relationship with the Creator that controls even the evil that guides us to obedience and humility. Separating ourselves from others who don’t profess what we do is antithetical to the “Great Commission” and is only a way for some to feel superior and justify hate by looking down on those who don’t “worship God the right way, our way or the ‘way I want Him to be worshiped’”. The world breeds arrogance and hate and it seeps into even those who think they are God’s work. “Did we not drive out demons in your name?”… “I never knew you”. This should make us look with “fear and trembling” at ourselves.

 

[DavidJoseph]

Dialogue with believers and leaders of other religions is fine. The problem comes when we try to compromise the True Faith, and when we kiss Qurans, pray in Jewish Synagogues. or when our Pope receives blessings from Jewish “rabbis”.

But why did John Paul II kiss the Koran? From what I’ve heard, it was given to him as a gift, and in Middle Eastern culture, you show gratitude for a gift by kissing it. Although really, I’m conflicted about it. I don’t think it was a good move on His Holiness’ part, but at the same time, what was he supposed to do? If that’s how you say thank you in a given culture … well … when in Rome, you do as the Romans do, eh? Otherwise he could possibly risk alienating those whom he was dialoguing with. Some folks’ faith is so weak that the smallest slight is enough to turn them away from the faith. Either way, it seems to be a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” situation. But come on! It was a momentary lapse of good judgment (haven’t we all had one of those before?), and yet some folks are ready to stone him for blasphemy! Let it go already!

And praying in synagogues … in what way? If you mean praying an Our Father and Hail Mary, for example, in a synagogue, I don’t see what’s so bad about that. If you mean chanting psalms, well then, we Catholics chant psalms too, e.g. in the Liturgy of the Hours.

As for getting a blessing by a Jewish rabbi, consider the point Lily made earlier in this thread about the nun blessing her necklace without her consent.

 

[DavidJoseph]

I’d like to add that Pope John Paul II was thoroughly devoted to Our Lady of Fatima. Did you ever stop to think that maybe that was why he was so respectful of Muslims? You’re probably wondering what that can possibly mean. Read on:

Mary in the Koran:**

The Koran, which is the Bible of the Muslims, has many passages concerning the Blessed Virgin. First o fall, the Koran believes in her Immaculate Conception and also in her Virgin Birth. The third chapter of the Koran places the history of Mary’s family in a genealogy that goes back through Abraham, Noah, and Adam. When one compares the Koran’s description of the birth of Mary with the apocryphal gospel of the birth of Mary, one is tempted to believe that Muhammed very much depended upon the latter. Both books describe the old age and the definite sterility of the mother of Mary. When, however, she conceives, the mother of Mary is made to say in the Koran: *O Lord, I vow and I consecrate to you what is already within me. Accept it from me.’*** When Mary is born, her mother says: *And I consecrate her with all of her posterity under they protection, O Lord, against Satan!’
*
The Koran passes over Joseph in the life of Mary, but the Muslim tradition knows his name and has some familiarity with him. IN this tradition, Joseph is made to speak to Mary, who is a virgin. As he inquired how she conceived Jesus without a father, Mary answered: ***“Do you not know that God, when He created the wheat, had no need of seed, and that God by his power made the trees grow without the help of rain? All that God had to do was to say, `So be it,’ and it was done.”

---

        The Koran has also verses on the Annunciation, Visitation, and Nativity. Angels are pictured as accompanying the Blessed Mother and saying: `***Oh, Mary, God has chosen you and purified you, and elected you above all the women of the earth.’*** In the nineteenth chapter of the Koran there are forty-one verses on Jesus and Mary. There is such a strong defense of the virginity of Mary here that the Koran, in the fourth book, attributes the condemnation of the Jews to their monstrous calumny against the Virgin Mary.

Our Lady of Fatima:
Mary, then, is for the Muslims the true Sayyida, or Lady. The only possible serious rival to her in their creed would be Fatima, the daughter of Muhammed himself. But after the death of Fatima, Muhammed wrote: ***Thou shalt be the most blessed of all the women in Paradise, after Mary.’ In a variant of the text, Fatima is made to say: I surpass all the women, except Mary.’***

        This brings us to our second point, namely, why the Blessed Mother, in the 20th century, should have revealed herself in the insignificant little village of Fatima, so that to all future generations she would be known as Our Lady of Fatima. Since nothing ever happens out of Heaven except with a finesse of all details, I believe that the Blessed Virgin chose to be known as **`Our Lady of Fatima’** as a pledge and a sign of hope to the Muslim people and as an assurance that they, who show her so much respect, will one day accept her Divine Son, too.
       
        **Evidence to support these views is found in the historical fact that the Muslims occupied Portugal for centuries. At the time when they were finally driven out, the last Muslim chief had a beautiful daughter by the name of Fatima. A Catholic boy fell in love with her, and for him she not only stayed behind when the Muslims left but even embraced the Faith. The young husband was so much in love with her that he changed the name of the town where he lived to Fatima. Thus, the very place where Our Lady appeared in 1917 bears a historical connection to Fatima the daughter of Muhammad.

The final evidence of the relationship of the village of Fatima to the Muslims is the enthusiastic reception that the Muslims in Africa and India and elsewhere have to the pilgrim statue of Our Lady of Fatima, as mentioned earlier. Muslims attended the church services in honor of Our Lady; they allowed religious processions and even prayers before their mosques; and in Mozambique the Muslims, who were unconverted, began to be Christian as soon as the statue of Our Lady of Fatima was erected.

** Missionaries in the future will, more and more, see that their apostolate among the Muslims will be successful in the measure that they preach Our Lady of Fatima. Mary is the advent to Christ, bringing Christ to the people before Christ himself is born. In any apologetic endeavor, it is always best to start with that which people already accept. Because the Muslims have a devotion to Mary, our missionaries should be satisfied merely to expand and to develop that devotion, wit the full realization that Our Blessed Lady will carry the Muslims the rest of the way to her Divine Son. She is forever a `traitor’ in the sense that she will not accept any devotion for herself, but will always bring anyone who is devoted to her to her Divine Son. As those who lose devotion to her lose belief in the divinity of Christ, so those who intensify devotion to her gradually acquire that belief.

Many of our great missionaries in Africa have already broken down the bitter hatred and prejudices of the Muslims against the Christians through their acts of charity, their schools and hospitals. It now remains to use another approach, namely that of taking the 41st chapter of the Koran and showing them that it was taken out of the Gospel of Luke, that Mary could not be, even in their own eyes, the most blessed of all the women of heaven if she had not also borne One who was the Savior of the world. If Judith and Esther of the Old Testament were prefigures of Mary, then it may very well be that Fatima herself was a post figure of Mary! The Muslims should be prepared to acknowledge that, if Fatima must give way in honor to the Blessed Mother, it is because she is different from all the other mothers of the world and that without Christ she would be nothing.[1]

[1] From “The World’s First Love, Mary Mother of God” by Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen, Chapter 17; Ignatius Press.

 

[CWBetts]

Anyone who would make such a claim is thoroughly ignorant of Nostra Aetate. I strongly recommend you read it.

 

[YADA]

First - I do not believe that this Pope or any modern day Pope’s embrace idolotry. And to imply such I find rather insulting …

Lets look at the Scriptures … Paul makes an address to the men of Athen’s .[Acts Ch17]… some might say with little result - most left - but scripture records a few whose hearts were moved …

But look at Paul’s address … you have to do a little research to get the full story but Paul quotes Epimenedes. “'In him we live and move and have our being”… except Epimendes was not an Athenian nor a Greek. He was actually from Crete.

So what was his connection to Athens? His connection to Athens was tied to the Altar to the Unknown God. Long story made short and paraphrased. Athens fell victim to a plague that nearly destroyed City killing thousand upon thousands … nothing worked not even offering tribute to every known God. Athenian King sends for Epimenedes. Epimenedes determins they have somehow insulted a God they did not know and provides instructions on how to offer sacrifice… they created an Altar to the Unknown God, sacrificed an offering of sheep, the plague lifted and the town was saved … there are even some parallls to Christ - he would not take payment or reward, entered into a treaty with Athens [covenant rekationship] Blah, Blah …You get the idea

Paul uses this Altar to the Unknown God [with the underlying story] to introduce Jesus to the people of Athens … Paul does not meet the people of Athens and begin telling them - hey you are all absolutely and completely off the mark … Paul does not require them to come to him - he goes to them, meets them where they are. He joins them in there town among their Temples. Paul starts with their history, their faith, their practices. Paul uses that as a basis [starting point] for introducing the One True God, Jesus Christ … did it work for Paul 100%? No, but he gained a few converts …

You can read about Epimenedes here classicpersuasion.org/pw/diogenes/dlepimenides.htm

You can read Paul’s address to the to the Men of Athens here

usccb.org/nab/bible/acts/acts17.htm

Because the Pope meets with all people with respect and meets them where they are on the journey of faith does not mean that the Pope embraces Idolatry or believes like Oprah that all paths are equal … the Church [as Paul illustrated in Athens] recognizes that there is some element of Truth found in all faiths … that God works in the world and calls all mankind to respond.

As Paul says to the Roman’s there is a law written on the hearts of everyone - he basis upon which all are judged- but to some more has been given and we are judged according to what has been given … it is not enough to be circumcised [or baptized] in body if you are not also marked on your heart … you can be neither circumsized [baptized] bodily but indelibly marked on your heart.

The Pope is responsible for every soul in the world - not just ‘catholics’ a heavy burden … He must witness to them in his own way adn where they are …

Another analogy is to look to our Lord … he supped, broke bread and drank wine with sinners [theives, tax collectors [was that redundant], drunkards adulterers, etc] , he met them where they were and showed them a better way …

 

[LilyM]

It is nonsense and should cease immediately. During the time of the martyrs in Rome, Catholics were put to death for not offering the emperor a pinch of incense as sacrifice. Who are we to betray such a noble lineage and history?

Uh, that’s because in so doing they were actually worshipping the Emperor. He WAS considered to be divine and worshipped as a god, y’know. More than that, more than worshipping the Emperor even, they were also being asked to give up their Christian worship. You couldn’t hope to, for example, worship both in the pagan temples and in Christian services and hope to escape persecution by so doing.

I am currently station in Al Hillah, Iraq. Last week was some religious holiday for the shia moslems, and here on the camp they set aside a room for them. A few of the locals who are my friends asked one of my Soldiers to go into the room, burn the incense, light a candle and make a wish. Sadly enough, he did it. Nevertheless, this here is once Sergeant who would rather end up on Al Jazzera losing my head before I betray Christ.

Pope Benedict prayed in a mosque on his visit to Turkey - I suppose you think he betrayed Christ too? I suppose the fact that he seriously angered Muslims early in his pontificate with a speech at Regensburg slamming Islam doesn’t mean anything?