Why do most people ignore the Church's teaching on contraception?

[Mark121359]

There is one other thing that bears mentioning. And I realize this may be considered taboo on here. And that “thing” is hell. It would appear that not many fear it any more. We have today a kind of almost semi-universalism in the RCC today. Everyone goes to heaven. When was the last time any of you heard a priest, bishop or pope for that matter (including JPII) talk about hell as a real place? And then there’s mortal sin. Reading through some of the threads on this topic, you would conclude that one rarely, if ever reaches the three conditions required for sin to be mortal. Oh well…God couldn’t possibly condemn me for something as petty as using contraceptives…right?

Peace, Mark

 

[Lily_Bernans]

There is one other thing that bears mentioning. And I realize this may be considered taboo on here. And that “thing” is hell. It would appear that not many fear it any more. We have today a kind of almost semi-universalism in the RCC today. Everyone goes to heaven. When was the last time any of you heard a priest, bishop or pope for that matter (including JPII) talk about hell as a real place? And then there’s mortal sin. Reading through some of the threads on this topic, you would conclude that one rarely, if ever reaches the three conditions required for sin to be mortal. Oh well…God couldn’t possibly condemn me for something as petty as using contraceptives…right?

Peace, Mark

A few Sundays ago, my pastor said if any one of us could spent even a millisecond in hell, we would always walk the straight and narrow. He did not, however, connect it to contraception, only sin in general.

 

[LongingSoul]

There is one other thing that bears mentioning. And I realize this may be considered taboo on here. And that “thing” is hell. It would appear that not many fear it any more. We have today a kind of almost semi-universalism in the RCC today. Everyone goes to heaven. When was the last time any of you heard a priest, bishop or pope for that matter (including JPII) talk about hell as a real place? And then there’s mortal sin. Reading through some of the threads on this topic, you would conclude that one rarely, if ever reaches the three conditions required for sin to be mortal. Oh well…God couldn’t possibly condemn me for something as petty as using contraceptives…right?

Peace, Mark

Since Vatican II the Church has been more focused on being a hospital for sinners offering the medicine of mercy rather than a strict judge pronoucing condemnation. It is more conducive to real conversion to be welcomed into the love of God than to be beaten into submission.

Pope St JPII actually did a series of Wednesday audiences on heaven, hell and purgatory to reorient our perspective on them.

ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2HEAVN.HTM

 

[anthrogirl]

Why?

Because having children is incredibly hard.

It’s exhausting. Lack of energy, lack of patience, lack of sleep. Pregnancy can cause major health issues.
For me, it’s the increased risk of diabetes and the crippling Depression I’ve suffered from and have yet to recover from over the past 3 years.

I agree with the Church’s teachings but I’m maxed out. I tried using NFP and you can see my signature. I have 3 very young children and the idea of having another frightens me. I cannot go through with it again because I will break.

I don’t trust NFP. I’ve stopped charting and have zero intention to a) use NFP and b) have anymore children ever again.

I cannot take the anxiety, stress and depression both have caused.

There is still the marital debt to consider. Hubby and I are struggling with this big time.

My OB wants me on the pill now because my PCOS is worse and my cycles are so messed up and painful.

I haven’t started it yet…but next appointment I probably will.

Frankly, I’m at a point where I truly don’t blame people for disregarding this teaching.

There is a couple across the street who we watch struggle as parents. We take their kids in for dinner as often as we can. We take their kids along with our kids out to dinner, on outings, even just to the store. We know that their home lives are not great and we want the kids know that we love them. And we want to give their parents a break. We even convinced the parents not to send their youngest to Catholic school. We encouraged them to send him to kindergarten at the local public school which has loads of services for advanced and for struggling kids. It’s a great school. One of their daughters suffers in Catholic school because she has a learning disability (ADD) and the school is ill equipped to provide her with the support she needs. It does not have a full time Spec Ed team on staff. Just one lone resource person. Plus, this family is scraping to get by. It takes a village. They have 4 kids.

Sometimes we get in over our heads. And sometimes there is no safety valve to relieve the pressure. And for those families, it’s not a nice life. You’re not breeding good future Catholics in situations like that. Sometimes that one extra kid can be the difference between a loving and a dysfunctional family. And most parents know where that line is.

All forms of birth control fail and NFP has the worst track record. I agree that its in the best interest of the kids and parents for some people not to have more kids. Look…there are even members of the Magisterium that have personally supported the use of birth control. So it’s not just a lazy layman cafeteria Catholic thing. They understand the psychological and the economic impact of having too many children. The Catholic Church does not advise its members to have as many children as physically possible. It has no problem with married couple engaging in sex when conception is impossible (such as when a woman is not ovulating). Pope Pius’ did tell us not to engage in behaviors that impede nature. But that was shot down in theological circles because humans do that all the time. We cut our hair and toe nails. We even have optional surgery and engage in other treatments that impede our fertility such as hysterectomies, radiation treatments, etc. Some women are so lean, they stop ovulating. There are herbs that people take to keep healthy that have fertility reducing side effects. So there are things that we are allowed to engage in that we know ahead of time that will impede our ability to reproduce. The line is not hard. It is movable and the church has considered moving it. Mental health (as affected by stress/anxiety/depression) is and should be as significant and important factor as health when considering the use of birth control. In 1966, Pope VI’s birth control committee found that the use of birth control was consistent with church teachings and recommended that the church lift its ban. The members of the committee were well informed and knowledgeable servants of the church. They are as credible, moral, ethical and knowledgeable as any priest or forum member you’ll run into. They were not recommending lifting the ban in defiance of the church teachings but in union with the church. There is a path to be true to the church AND use birth control. And most Catholics in the world know that implicitly.

 

[Regina7]

There is a couple across the street who we watch struggle as parents. We take their kids in for dinner as often as we can. We take their kids along with our kids out to dinner, on outings, even just to the store. We know that their home lives are not great and we want the kids know that we love them. And we want to give their parents a break. We even convinced the parents not to send their youngest to Catholic school. We encouraged them to send him to kindergarten at the local public school which has loads of services for advanced and for struggling kids. It’s a great school. One of their daughters suffers in Catholic school because she has a learning disability (ADD) and the school is ill equipped to provide her with the support she needs. It does not have a full time Spec Ed team on staff. Just one lone resource person. Plus, this family is scraping to get by. It takes a village. They have 4 kids.

Sometimes we get in over our heads. And sometimes there is no safety valve to relieve the pressure. And for those families, it’s not a nice life. You’re not breeding good future Catholics in situations like that. Sometimes that one extra kid can be the difference between a loving and a dysfunctional family. And most parents know where that line is.

All forms of birth control fail and NFP has the worst track record. I agree that its in the best interest of the kids and parents for some people not to have more kids. Look…there are even members of the Magisterium that have personally supported the use of birth control. So it’s not just a lazy layman cafeteria Catholic thing. They understand the psychological and the economic impact of having too many children. The Catholic Church does not advise its members to have as many children as physically possible. It has no problem with married couple engaging in sex when conception is impossible (such as when a woman is not ovulating). Pope Pius’ did tell us not to engage in behaviors that impede nature. But that was shot down in theological circles because humans do that all the time. We cut our hair and toe nails. We even have optional surgery and engage in other treatments that impede our fertility such as hysterectomies, radiation treatments, etc. Some women are so lean, they stop ovulating. There are herbs that people take to keep healthy that have fertility reducing side effects. So there are things that we are allowed to engage in that we know ahead of time that will impede our ability to reproduce. The line is not hard. It is movable and the church has considered moving it. Mental health (as affected by stress/anxiety/depression) is and should be as significant and important factor as health when considering the use of birth control. In 1966, Pope VI’s birth control committee found that the use of birth control was consistent with church teachings and recommended that the church lift its ban. The members of the committee were well informed and knowledgeable servants of the church. They are as credible, moral, ethical and knowledgeable as any priest or forum member you’ll run into. They were not recommending lifting the ban in defiance of the church teachings but in union with the church. There is a path to be true to the church AND use birth control. And most Catholics in the world know that implicitly.

No, there is NOT a path to be true to the Church using birth control. You are fooling yourself. Birth control is ALWAYS intrinsically evil, no matter what sad story tries to convince otherwise.

Moral relativism is trying to bend or change the rules to fit what WE want, thinking God is ok with it. It doesn’t work that way. God NEVER promised that following his laws would be easy; in fact, he said it wouldn’t be.

 

[anthrogirl]

There is one other thing that bears mentioning. And I realize this may be considered taboo on here. And that “thing” is hell. It would appear that not many fear it any more. We have today a kind of almost semi-universalism in the RCC today. Everyone goes to heaven. When was the last time any of you heard a priest, bishop or pope for that matter (including JPII) talk about hell as a real place? And then there’s mortal sin. Reading through some of the threads on this topic, you would conclude that one rarely, if ever reaches the three conditions required for sin to be mortal. Oh well…God couldn’t possibly condemn me for something as petty as using contraceptives…right?

Peace, Mark

I’ve heard repeatedly that hell is the absence of God. We close our eyes for the last time on Earth and that’s it. Hell is no afterlife. Hell is our soul being snuffed out for good. I haven’t heard the fire pits and horned beast stories since I was a kid. And that was long ago.

 

[anthrogirl]

No, there is NOT a path to be true to the Church using birth control. You are fooling yourself. Birth control is ALWAYS intrinsically evil, no matter what sad story tries to convince otherwise.

Moral relativism is trying to bend or change the rules to fit what WE want, thinking God is ok with it. It doesn’t work that way. God NEVER promised that following his laws would be easy; in fact, he said it wouldn’t be.

Thanks for voicing your opinion. Have a great New Year!

 

[SilverLight]

Is it that these people cannot abstain.

Also: the church is infallible on all moral issues, as the true church founded by Jesus Christ

Either the Church Jesus founded is completely infallible on all moral issues or it isn’t,

Jesus said; “If you love Me you would keep my Commandments.”
Our Lady of Fatima said, more Souls go to hell for sins of impurity than any other sin. She said the majority of marriages are unpleasing to God.

A Catholic believing and acting against catholic doctrine is in an automatic state of excommunication,

And those who use contraception are in a state of mortal sin, those who receive communion and also do not confess this sin commit.the sin of sacrilege.

Well then it looks like a lot of people will be if that is true and something tells me its not 100% accurate. You say

Either the Church Jesus founded is completely infallible on all moral issues or it isn’t

I know a few places in history that I can find people saying “Either I’m completely right or I’m wrong and if you don’t believe that then you are bad.” The fact is there are some things in the Bible that are not in society today.

 

[SilverLight]

Thanks for voicing your opinion. Have a great New Year!

+1

 

[Bob_Crowley]

This is a hoary old argument for me. Personally I think the Pill was God’s idea, given largely through Catholic researchers, at the very time population pressures were becoming a real problem in some parts of the world.

It was twice recommended for use by married couples by two committees, the first set up by John XXIII (who also called for Vatican II) and expanded by Paul Vi. It included theologians, cardinals, bishops and lay people.

But Pope Paul VI overrode the recommendations of the committees, influenced by a hardline core of cardinals, and the rest is history.

The problem now is the issue of “infallibility” means that the church can’t admit it’s made a mistake.

Looking up one of the world population clocks at -

worldometers.info/world-population/

Births this year 526,497 (this is in two days)

Deaths this year 220,483 (two days)

Population Growth this year 306,015 (two days)

And the two days aren’t up yet.

if those 306,315 people are going to have the same living standard as the average US or Australian citizen, this means that about 150,000 houses have to be built every day, probably about 250,000 new cars need to be manufactured, an enormous amount of material and energy must be consumed, the food for 306,015 more mouths must be produced, acres of trees must be cut down.

And for what in Catholic doctrine? Because a handful of Church fathers, in an age when they didn’t face these problems, disagreed with contraception?

It doesn’t impress me. I think Pope Paul VI made a huge mistake. And after the massive walkout by religious of all types, he never wrote another encyclical.

From “Saints and Sinners - A History of the Popes” by Eamon Duffy.

"… To his (Pope Paul VI) horror, Humanae Vitae provoked a storm of protest, and many priests resigned or were forced out of their posts for their opposition to the Pope’s teaching.

Paul never doubted what he had done what had to be done, but his confidence was shattered. He never wrote another encyclical, and the last ten years of his pontificate were marked by deepening gloom, as he agonised over the divisions within the church and his own unpopularity, the mass exodus of priests and religious, and the growing violence of the secular world, signalled for him in 1978, the last year of his life, by the kidnap and murder of his close friend, the Christian Democratic politician Aldo Moro".

I’m not impressed by the church’s ruling on contraception, and going by the number of smaller families in the church today, neither are most lay Catholics. They’ve got more horse sense.

I remember one otherwise fairly devout Catholic housewife making the sarcastic comment - “The Pope’s not going to house, feed, educate, or clothe the kids, and what we do in the bedroom is none of his business!”

 

[Regina7]

Thanks for voicing your opinion. Have a great New Year!

It’s not an opinion. It’s Church teaching.

 

[Usige]

It’s not an opinion. It’s Church teaching.

Unfortunately it seems many Catholics see Church teaching as merely opinion. Many recent comments rejecting the magisterium of the Church is very disheartening.

 

[Regina7]

Unfortunately it seems many Catholics see Church teaching as merely opinion. Many recent comments rejecting the magisterium of the Church is very disheartening.

I was thinking the same thing. It’s quite depressing

 

[Abu]

Anthrogirl #56
In 1966, Pope VI’s birth control committee found that the use of birth control was consistent with church teachings and recommended that the church lift its ban. The members of the committee were well informed and knowledgeable servants of the church. They are as credible, moral, ethical and knowledgeable as any priest or forum member you’ll run into. They were not recommending lifting the ban in defiance of the church teachings but in union with the church. There is a path to be true to the church AND use birth control. And most Catholics in the world know that implicitly.

False.
**
The only question which Pope Paul VI gave to be considered as legitimately debatable by the Theological Commission which he set up was the effect and use of the new chemical in the “Pill”, with no possibility of any change against Casti Connubii. **His Humanae Vitae then clearly reflected this grave error by the majority in the Theological Commission.

The reason for the Commission was only to examine the effects of the “Pill”.

“It is often said that Paul VI was himself in doubt about the doctrinal point at issue for some time and took a long while to make up his mind. However, Fr. Ermenigildo Lio, O.F.M., told the present writer that the Pope assured him personally, at around the time Humanae Vitae was issued, that he had never at any stage been in doubt about the intrinsic evil of contraception. The long time lapse was due only to the need to ponder carefully the precise manner in which this truth - which had already been authoritatively settled by Pius XI in *Casti Connubii *(1930) - could best be reaffirmed.

“In support of this private information given by Paul VI to Fr. Lio is the documented fact of his personal intervention at the conclusion of Vatican II, when Gaudium et Spes was in the process of being finalized. There was division and uncertainty amongst the Council Fathers, with the result that the drafting Commission wanted to leave the question open in this new magisterial statement. However, as Fr. Lio’s book documents, Paul VI responded to a request from Cardinal Ottaviani and Fr. Lio himself by intervening personally, against the previous wish of the majority of those drafting the document, to insist on the inclusion of a reference to the crucial passage of *Casti Connubii *in footnote 14 to Gaudium et Spes: 51. This is highly significant, because it shows that the Pope was insisting (and made the Council insist) that whatever future statements he might make about contraception, everyone could know in advance that there would be no going back on Pius XI’s firm decision against unnatural methods of birth control as intrinsically evil. So much for Paul VI’s ‘indecision.’ ”
Fr Brian Harrison, O.S., Humanae Vitae And Infallibity at:
rtforum.org/lt/lt12.html

Vatican II’s Gaudiem et Spes, 51, specifically rules out any possibility of changing the infallible doctrine against contraception in Casti Connubii of Pope Pius XI, 1930, by the footnote 14 reference to the crucial passage, and this on the personal intervention of the Pope himself.

The enormous significance of this is that there would be no contradiction of Pius XI’s definition against unnatural methods of regulating births as intrinsically evil.

From Catholic Answers:
catholic.com/tracts/birth-control
'There is no way to deny the fact that the Church has always and everywhere condemned artificial contraception. The matter has already been infallibly decided. The so-called “individual conscience” argument amounts to “individual disobedience.” ’
IMPRIMATUR: In accord with 1983 CIC 827
permission to publish this work is hereby granted.
+Robert H. Brom, Bishop of San Diego, August 10, 2004

 

[Horton]

Me, too. Contraception is a mortal sin, I won’t dispute that. But I have to think that actually killing a human life is worse than preventing its beginning.

Many forms of birth control actually are abortifacients. Basically they prevent a fertilized egg from attaching or staying attached to the uterine wall. In very simple terms artificial birth control is a very early abortion.

As far the OP - All I can say is I’m thankful I didn’t convert until the issue of birth control was moot point in my life. I certainly would have followed church teaching but it would have been difficult.

 

[LongingSoul]

This is a hoary old argument for me. Personally I think the Pill was God’s idea, given largely through Catholic researchers, at the very time population pressures were becoming a real problem in some parts of the world.

It was twice recommended for use by married couples by two committees, the first set up by John XXIII (who also called for Vatican II) and expanded by Paul Vi. It included theologians, cardinals, bishops and lay people.

But Pope Paul VI overrode the recommendations of the committees, influenced by a hardline core of cardinals, and the rest is history.

The problem now is the issue of “infallibility” means that the church can’t admit it’s made a mistake.

Looking up one of the world population clocks at -

worldometers.info/world-population/

Births this year 526,497 (this is in two days)

Deaths this year 220,483 (two days)

Population Growth this year 306,015 (two days)

And the two days aren’t up yet.

if those 306,315 people are going to have the same living standard as the average US or Australian citizen, this means that about 150,000 houses have to be built every day, probably about 250,000 new cars need to be manufactured, an enormous amount of material and energy must be consumed, the food for 306,015 more mouths must be produced, acres of trees must be cut down.

And for what in Catholic doctrine? Because a handful of Church fathers, in an age when they didn’t face these problems, disagreed with contraception?

It doesn’t impress me. I think Pope Paul VI made a huge mistake. And after the massive walkout by religious of all types, he never wrote another encyclical.

From “Saints and Sinners - A History of the Popes” by Eamon Duffy.

I’m not impressed by the church’s ruling on contraception, and going by the number of smaller families in the church today, neither are most lay Catholics. They’ve got more horse sense.

I remember one otherwise fairly devout Catholic housewife making the sarcastic comment - “The Pope’s not going to house, feed, educate, or clothe the kids, and what we do in the bedroom is none of his business!”

When something is classed ‘intrinsically’ evil, it doesn’t qualify to satisfy ends justifying any means. Fertility is a critical ecosystem of the person just like the circulatory system of a body. The natural instinct is to protect its functions as essential to fullness of life. Fertility defines the specific purposes and joys of being either a woman or a man. The bible and nature clearly demonstrate that male and female are unique aspects of one equation that require clear definition to remain life giving by their communion.

Contraception has an innate ideology of self proclaimed good working against an evil disability called fertility. You hear that self proclamation in comments like ‘contraception increases the intimacy of relationships’ or ‘contraception helps control over population’ or ‘contraception prevents abortion’.

Imagine an ideology that justified cutting off our ability to breathe! I can only think of one really and that is the act of autoerotic asphyxiation. That like contraception, is a practice that seeks to prevent a good and natural human function, for the sake of sexual pleasure.

Contraception is to fertility as autoerotic asphyxiation is to breathing. Both are self proclaimed goods that destroy the dignity and worth and very meaning of a person.

 

[kptrs]

Many forms of birth control actually are abortifacients. Basically they prevent a fertilized egg from attaching or staying attached to the uterine wall. In very simple terms artificial birth control is a very early abortion.

Yes, you’re right. I was referring to birth control methods that are not abortifacients - condoms, etc.

 

[SilverLight]

Yes, you’re right. I was referring to birth control methods that are not abortifacients - condoms, etc.

Condoms from what I was told can help prevent some nasty things though.

 

[Regina7]

Condoms from what I was told can help prevent some nasty things though.

But a person with “nasty things” should be celibate. And if that person had followed God’s plan of sexuality from the beginning, there would be no nasty things!

 

[HouseArrest]

The Catholics that I know that don’t follow church teaching on contraception are greatly influenced by secular society.

Since contraception is so widespread, they think it is not possible that we really need to follow the teaching. They don’t give it another thought after that.

We always just want what we want. If something is too difficult, we don’t want to have to do it.

Infertility is a related but opposite problem of those trying to avoid pregnancy. Imagine if you told an infertile couple that all they had to do to achieve a pregnancy would be to remain celibate for a certain period of time. Most would do it in a heartbeat. Those wanting to avoid a pregnancy wouldn’t dream of it.