Why do most people ignore the Church's teaching on contraception?

[PhiloMed]

Perhaps this is sanctifying you- purgatory on Earth. A nun friend of mine always says she’d much rather have purgatory here.

What is it exactly that you think pushed you away from God? Of course don’t answer if I’m overstepping.

Loss of trust. I trusted that by doing what I am told is God’s Will my marriage will be better, we will be closer to Him and all sorts of other things- none of which became true. In fact, it has all been the exact opposite experience. Not everyone’s parenting experience is the same. I know this sounds like a ridiculously trite thing to say because obviously no two sets of parents will have the exact same experience. However, I think there are many within the Church (capital C) as well as in the church (lowercase c community) who just can’t grasp why some of us would possibly feel this way about our own family.

I don’t see each pregnancy as a blessing. I see it as an almost unbearable suffering and I simply cannot continue to do anymore if I’m going to survive another 50 years on this earth or one more year.

 

[Regina7]

Loss of trust. I trusted that by doing what I am told is God’s Will my marriage will be better, we will be closer to Him and all sorts of other things- none of which became true. In fact, it has all been the exact opposite experience. Not everyone’s parenting experience is the same. I know this sounds like a ridiculously trite thing to say because obviously no two sets of parents will have the exact same experience. However, I think there are many within the Church (capital C) as well as in the church (lowercase c community) who just can’t grasp why some of us would possibly feel this way about our own family.

I don’t see each pregnancy as a blessing. I see it as an almost unbearable suffering and I simply cannot continue to do anymore if I’m going to survive another 50 years on this earth or one more year.

Is it just rough pregnancies? Or afterward too?

 

[SAVINGRACE]

Perhaps this is sanctifying you- purgatory on Earth. A nun friend of mine always says she’d much rather have purgatory here.
.

I’d rather have purgatory here or purgatory after death. It’s preferable to Hell.

No I am condemning anyone on here to hell, just making a statement that no matter how difficult life gets, I don’t know what “real suffering” is. Millions are starving, homeless, live in a warzone or have no-one. I eat 3 meals a day, I have a roof over my head, no wars happening here and I have supportive family and friends.

Not many people want to suffer like the Saints did. Many christians want to participate in the blessings that come from Christ on the cross but few are willing to participate in the suffering with him.

I don’t want to let an arm go from clinging onto the body of Christ, I am also mindful of reaching a hand out to or kicking others off who are also clinging on for dear life.

 

[Xantippe]

So what about someone like me? I thought I wanted a house full of kids. 5 at least, whatever God wanted for us to have. Used ABC for years and had the proverbial “change of heart”. Guess what? 5 kids sounds like a nightmare to me. I’m going to have our third and I am absolutely done. I wasn’t ready for the second one. The stress on our marriage brought us to the brink of divorce and at times we have held on by a thread.

Yeah, that “change of heart” goes both ways too. Mine swung in completely the opposite direction.

Yes.

When I was an idealistic young bride, I definitely envisioned homeschooling my 4-6 perfect Catholic children.

All was going well with our first, up until I got pregnant with our second, and then life suddenly got HARD. Eventually, we discovered that our oldest child was mildly autistic. Mildly meaning that she is verbal and eventually potty-trained (yay!) but that things that other parents take for granted take much longer–for instance, I was still dressing her for school and dragging her to the car in the morning well into 2nd grade. She’s a lovely young lady now, but she needs a lot of mom and dad and a lot of things that would be frills for other children are necessities–for instance a good, small private school. We gave up on the idea of homeschooling very early, pressed PAUSE after the second baby, and only managed our third baby when our oldest was 10.

It’s still theoretically possible that we could have a fourth or even fifth child (I’m “only” 40), but with a 13-year-old, 10-year-old, and 3-year-old, I already feel tired, fat and old and I have had the opportunity a couple times to see how the addition of a new baby impacts the quality of my parenting. I’m not that impressed by me. I think our current children are getting an adequate (if not stellar) level of parenting, but they weren’t during my last two pregnancies and for the next year or two. I’m just now being able to bounce back to adequate, now that our youngest is in 2-day parents’ day out.

Fortunately, we’ve had an OK NFP experience. But we have had to dial it back quite a bit to deal with our level of motivation (high), our fertility (high) and my shortening cycles.

 

[PhiloMed]

Is it just rough pregnancies? Or afterward too?

The pregnancy is the easiest part. I am not the woman to be a mother of many children. I did really well with 1 and it’s been downhill since then.

 

[Xantippe]

The pregnancy is the easiest part. I am not the woman to be a mother of many children. I did really well with 1 and it’s been downhill since then.

I bet you’ll do better with over-4s.

 

[LongingSoul]

Loss of trust. I trusted that by doing what I am told is God’s Will my marriage will be better, we will be closer to Him and all sorts of other things- none of which became true. In fact, it has all been the exact opposite experience. Not everyone’s parenting experience is the same. I know this sounds like a ridiculously trite thing to say because obviously no two sets of parents will have the exact same experience. However, I think there are many within the Church (capital C) as well as in the church (lowercase c community) who just can’t grasp why some of us would possibly feel this way about our own family.

I don’t see each pregnancy as a blessing. I see it as an almost unbearable suffering and I simply cannot continue to do anymore if I’m going to survive another 50 years on this earth or one more year.

Yours is actually a very common experience of a couple going from contraceptive sexual life to one dictated by natural fertility and responsible parenthood Catholic style. When Pope StJPII talked about nfp enhancing the marriage relationship he wasn’t meaning that fertility awareness and abstinent would be easy… especially contrasted with the responsibility free and spontaneous contraceptive sex life.

Natural planning involves more than simply learning techniques. It involves really believing in the effects of your conjugal life on the sanctity and Catholic foundations of your family, your grandchildren to come and so on and so on. You do have to really nurture that appreciation of Catholicity. When people come into the Church or return to the Church they often find it hard to articulate what is calling them. But its that thing of being part of something eternal. Prophesied for so long and then with the birth of Christ, manifest in the Church community and most wonderfully in the microcosm of the little family you love and live with. (Horrible as some of those little critters can be)

I would say to you, you are not alone in this conversion experience by any means and if you want to keep trying to understand it better… seek out the right type of help. Talk with you nfp advisor about help with living the natural fertility god has blessed you with and keep trusting that He’ll be true to your faith.

St Gerard Majella pray for you and your family.

 

[PhiloMed]

I bet you’ll do better with over-4s.

Yes, I actually really enjoy my 3 year old. As you mentioned in your earlier post, the quality of my parenting goes down with each child (including this pregnancy).

I have a friend who just had her 7th child in less than 9 years. She couldn’t be happier. Loves every stage of childhood. Homeschools the whole gang and would joyfully welcome more. We are only in our mid 30’s so that could easily happen.

If that was my life it is unlikely that I would be raising 7 saints. With the kind of mother I would become I would likely have 7 dysfunctional, angry adults.

 

[PhiloMed]

I would say to you, you are not alone in this conversion experience by any means and if you want to keep trying to understand it better… seek out the right type of help. Talk with you nfp advisor about help with living the natural fertility god has blessed you with and keep trusting that He’ll be true to your faith.

St Gerard Majella pray for you and your family.

I appreciate that, but ultimately we are going to need to make other decisions not just given our lack of success in NFP but also that this will be my 3rd c-section. While many on here tell about how they’ve had 4 or more and no problems, 4 years of medical school, 3 years of residency, 3 years of fellowship and two board certifications direct my prudential judgment in other directions.

I tried, I failed NFP but more importantly and maybe even the greater loss is that it left me further from my faith life than I ever have been. I need to regain that somehow, but it won’t be by trusting my fertility to the church.

 

[_Abyssinia]

I appreciate that, but ultimately we are going to need to make other decisions not just given our lack of success in NFP but also that this will be my 3rd c-section. While many on here tell about how they’ve had 4 or more and no problems, 4 years of medical school, 3 years of residency, 3 years of fellowship and two board certifications direct my prudential judgment in other directions.

I tried, I failed NFP but more importantly and maybe even the greater loss is that it left me further from my faith life than I ever have been. I need to regain that somehow, but it won’t be by trusting my fertility to the church.

Have you sought spiritual direction regarding your problems? I really hope you won’t turn to using contraception, because in addition to it not being allowed for contraceptive purposes, although I recognise the trouble you have had with NFP, contraception fails, even with perfect use it can fail, and people can use it incorrectly, just as people can use NFP incorrectly if they are trying to avoid pregnancy for just reason, and pregnancy happens, although I’m not sure why you think it failed for you. Have you also looked into seeing or getting advice from a professional, somebody experienced in NFP methods who can help advise you?

 

[PhiloMed]

Have you sought spiritual direction regarding your problems? I really hope you won’t turn to using contraception, because in addition to it not being allowed for contraceptive purposes, although I recognise the trouble you have had with NFP, contraception fails, even with perfect use it can fail, and people can use it incorrectly, just as people can use NFP incorrectly if they are trying to avoid pregnancy for just reason, and pregnancy happens, although I’m not sure why you think it failed for you. Have you also looked into seeing or getting advice from a professional, somebody experienced in NFP methods who can help advise you?

The NFP physicians in this area are little more than quacks in my medical opinion. They have not been at all helpful as when I begin to challenge them with medical fact their eyes glaze over and they babble about the failure rates of OCPs which I’m not interested in using anyways. I have a good physician and I am a good physician and am very comfortable making medical decisions and understanding my options.

As far as spiritual direction goes, yes, I have but ultimately it is the word of a man who will never be a mother or understand how I feel.

I appreciate these types of threads because I always come away more informed and more certain of my spiritual direction. I don’t think it is the direction most here would necessarily agree with. But never the less, thank you.

 

[_Abyssinia]

The NFP physicians in this area are little more than quacks in my medical opinion. They have not been at all helpful as when I begin to challenge them with medical fact their eyes glaze over and they babble about the failure rates of OCPs which I’m not interested in using anyways. I have a good physician and I am a good physician and am very comfortable making medical decisions and understanding my options.

As far as spiritual direction goes, yes, I have but ultimately it is the word of a man who will never be a mother or understand how I feel.

I appreciate these types of threads because I always come away more informed and more certain of my spiritual direction. I don’t think it is the direction most here would necessarily agree with. But never the less, thank you.

Why do you feel they were “quacks”?

I may have heard somewhere that although a Priest may not have personal experience of being in the situation of those that come to him for advice in a myriad of circumstances, whether the lay Catholic be female or male, that doesn’t mean the Priest couldn’t help advise, despite himself not having personal experience of being in the situation of the lay Catholic.

Somewhat different but think of psychologists. Their training helps them when mentally ill people come to them, but the psychologist may have never themselves experienced mental illness for example, but that doesn’t mean they can’t help, advise and emphasise with the mentally person and can help them to get better. You can help somebody despite not having been in that situation yourself.

 

[PhiloMed]

Why do you feel they were “quacks”?

I may have heard somewhere that although a Priest may not have personal experience of being in the situation of those that come to him for advice in a myriad of circumstances, whether the lay Catholic be female or male, that doesn’t mean the Priest couldn’t help advise, despite himself not having personal experience of being in the situation of the lay Catholic.

Somewhat different but think of psychologists. Their training helps them when mentally ill people come to them, but the psychologist may have never themselves experienced mental illness for example, but that doesn’t mean they can’t help, advise and emphasise with the mentally person and can help them to get better. You can help somebody despite not having been in that situation yourself.

:banghead::banghead::banghead:

I just explained why I’m not impressed with the NFP brigade. I am a physician and am comfortably gauging the caliber of physician I encounter. It’s not good when I as a specialist in a different field seem to know more than the GYN.

And I said I did get spiritual direction. I wasn’t impressed with a priest telling me about bearing crosses when I can cite statistics on medical fact for which he has no response. He also has no practical advice on what to do when I’m overwhelmed. I don’t need spiritual direction, I need practical assistance.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

:banghead::banghead::banghead:

I just explained why I’m not impressed with the NFP brigade. I am a physician and am comfortably gauging the caliber of physician I encounter. It’s not good when I as a specialist in a different field seem to know more than the GYN.

And I said I did get spiritual direction. I wasn’t impressed with a priest telling me about bearing crosses when I can cite statistics on medical fact for which he has no response. He also has no practical advice on what to do when I’m overwhelmed. I don’t need spiritual direction, I need practical assistance.

Have you checked out the Billings Method? If so what was your experience/opinion on it?

billings.life/en/

 

[PhiloMed]

Have you checked out the Billings Method? If so what was your experience/opinion on it?

billings.life/en/

i swear it’s like talking to people living in la-la-land. You are just not getting it. My #2 could be named Creighton. My soon to be #3 could be named Marquette.

Done. Over. Finished.

The OPs question has been answered I think.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

i swear it’s like talking to people living in la-la-land. You are just not getting it. My #2 could be named Creighton. My soon to be #3 could be named Marquette.

Done. Over. Finished.

The OPs question has been answered I think.

What are you talking about? This is the first time I have talked to you on this thread.

 

[Thorolfr]

i swear it’s like talking to people living in la-la-land. You are just not getting it. My #2 could be named Creighton. My soon to be #3 could be named Marquette.

Done. Over. Finished.

The OPs question has been answered I think.

From Frank Bruni at the New York Times last January:

MY mother always believed that when you signed up for a regimen, you owed it your best shot.

She was that way with diets. With aerobics.

And with religion. For my father she converted, Methodist to Catholic, and she tried to follow the script.

But in one way she couldn’t, and it became a staple of her confessions.

“Forgive me, Father,” she’d say time and again, in church after church, to confessor after confessor. “I use contraception.”

She never met a priest who didn’t respond with some version of the following, and I’m paraphrasing with abandon:

“Of course you do. You’re sane. Ignore Rome. Forget about the pope. There’s La-La Land, and then there’s the real world, in which you are clearly living. Say three Hail Marys because it can never hurt, and be on your way.”

nytimes.com/2015/01/25/opinion/sunday/frank-bruni-pope-francis-birth-control-and-american-catholics.html?_r=0

 

[Abu]

PaulinVA #177
Calling someone a dissenter and then citing a bunch on references on infallibility, instead of contraception, doesn’t advance the discussion.

This topic is centred on the ignorance and/or dissent, involved in ignoring/denigrating the Church over Her teaching against contraception.
As the errors expressed involve denigrating the Church’s infallible doctrine against contraception, a doctrine which has been in existence for a long time, the only solution to resolve the errors involves examining the truth of the Church’s doctrine, which is an essential part of Her mandate from Christ to “Strengthen your brethren.” (Lk 22:32) and “Feed My sheep.”(Jn 21:17).

Thus the discussion has been enormously clarified as to truth by the knowledge of what the Church actually teaches and the infallibility of that teaching.

The result is that all now know that the doctrine against contraception is infallible and those who dissent either do not know that fact, or freely choose to dissent from the infallible teaching but such Catholics should know that they are in grave error and seek to overcome their dissent.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

The result is that all now know that the doctrine against contraception is infallible and those who dissent either do not know that fact, or freely choose to dissent from the infallible teaching but such Catholics should know that they are in grave error and seek to overcome their dissent.

 

[anthrogirl]

It’s moral relativism when you think your conscience is right and the Magesterium is wrong. The example you gave was NOT Church teaching. It was an errant pope. The teaching on birth control IS Church teaching. You will not find a single Church document to support choosing your conscience WHEN the Church has already declared something.

I was in a religion class for adults and we discussed the concept of moral relativism. We talked about it at length and came out of the meeting with the idea that the church engages in moral relativism itself. Thou Shall Not Kill did not come with conditions. It states exactly what it means and it is absolute. Only God has power to give and take life willfully. Yet we human are sinful beings and we have taken it upon ourselves to give ourselves outs when it comes to war, capital punishment, etc. Jesus never said it was okay to kill someone because they were the enemy (like a Samaritan). Do I agree with the church that murder can be justified? In some cases, yes. I would certainly lust for the state sanctioned murder of someone who killed my child. We can jail killers so they kill no more, yet I’m sure I can find many hard core conservative Catholics who would support my lust for capital punishment. Even following the Commandments can be relative.

So when people try to undermine someone’s argument by calling it moral relativism, I have to think it’s not much of a counter-argument. Trying to use moral relativism as a derogatory term in religious discussions usually fails the hypocrisy test.