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Why do most people ignore the Church's teaching on contraception?
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SAVINGRACE
Guest
Spot on. Everyone has their “free will” to do as they please. They know the doctrine it’s up to the individual to decide. As fellow Catholics we may advise them against contraception but ultimately it’s their decision, their conscience and they have to live with that decision the same way we have to live with decisions we make when we commit mortal sins. This talk of priests telling them to never mind and continue using contraception and confessing every time they do is unconvincing either because the Priest will have his own explaining to do when the time comes.
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anthrogirl
Guest
We kept having miscarriages and I went to a large university system in the Baltimore area to figure out why. I was told that you always got your period 14 days after you ovulated. If your cycles float between say 28 and 31 days, the variance occurs in the first half of the cycle. I knew for a fact that this wasn’t true, that I ovulated on day 11 and I got my period usually on day 31. I did the combination of temperature taking and ovulation predictor kits (a very expensive undertaking, by the way), so I was pretty certain I was right. It was only after testing did the doctor concede that I was right. I can see where there is a lot of room for failure in the NFP. Not every women falls in the statistical norm. A lot of us fall outside and that can spell disaster if NFP is your only choice of birth control.
LaughingBoy1503
Well-known member
That 80% to 90% statistic is very misleading. I read a break down on how that got that number and though I cannot remember exactly how they disproved this claim, I was convinced at the time because it made perfect sense.
My guess as to why is because it is just a big fat inconvenience to so many people to adhere to this teaching. Some people can endure big inconveniences some can not.
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SAVINGRACE
Guest
80-90% that’s quite large. No source was provided. Hubby and I are in the 10% then. I wonder why people think contraception is more reliable than NFP, it’s not. Billings method which is what we use is 99% effective, more reliable than condoms and the pill.
LaughingBoy1503
Well-known member
I found the break down on how that statistic is very misleading.
http://soopermexican.hammerapp.com/...03/Lying-Catholic-Contraception-Statistic.jpg
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anthrogirl
Guest
I agree. I cited an example earlier of a single mom so overwhelmed by the responsibilities of child rearing that she doesn’t have time for church anymore. The psychological and economic harm caused by NFP use and failure can and does negatively affect the church. And while that fact is glossed over by some, most people get it. And that’s why most Catholic couples use/have used contraception other than NFP. The only way we can get around it is to forgo sex unless we are ovulating and are interested in getting pregnant. And no male ejaculation outside of those few times. Now that would be true sacrifice for the church.
Look… using contraception is considered a sin. We have leaders and teachers within the Magesterium, however, who are in support the pill and find room in church doctrine for its use (see earlier post). Most Catholic couples intrinsically discern this and have chosen to use non NFP contraception at least at some point in their lives in defiance of the church. You know what’s best for you and your family. You know the best way to walk the path of Christ. Church doctrine can only inform you, help guide you. You, like the rest of us, ultimately walk your path in Christ alone. What I say, what others say, is nothing compared to what God, thru the Holy Spirit, whispers in your heart. You’ve gotten your fill from this forum. You’ve received a bevy of replies. Now it’s time to look inside yourself. It’s time to look to God for your answers.
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Regina7
Guest
I’m afraid I don’t understand your point.
Bottom line is that birth control is intrinsically evil. Always. For whatever reason, whether it seems justified or not. People can fool themselves into thinking otherwise, but that’s just it- they are fooling themselves.
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Regina7
Guest
There are NOT “leaders within the Magesterium who support the pill.”
And why do you mention chastity like it’s a stupid idea? If a couple truly cannot stand the idea of another child right now, don’t have sex! On one hand, people suggest we intellectually listen to the Holy Spirit, yet then imply we are animals who cannot possibly abstain. Which is it?
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ThePCWife
Guest
The hard part isn’t avoiding having sex, the hard part is the lack of support for the kids people have RIGHT NOW. Although being forced into not having sex is also hard, especially so when people act like it’s selfishness to wish for the kind of easy NFP experiences other people have where they can basically fulfill their marital privileges whenever and it all somehow is exactly what they wanted and they never seem to have any struggles financially, psychologically, physically or spiritually. No bedrest for eight months with each pregnancy where someone else has to provide physical care for the existing children. No being physically unable to fit behind the steering wheel of the vehicle they use to get around and thus needing to have someone else drive for months at a time. No unending pain for the entire pregnancy. Etc, etc.
My own experience as a practicing Christian and when I was not is that birth control pills, condoms and other ABC “fail” because women choose not to take them/use them in the hopes of securing something from a specific man via the pregnancy, that they don’t fail when taken correctly. Or less often, men don’t because they want to secure something by getting the woman pregnant. Doesn’t make them good or right, but I have yet to meet a “condom broke” or “pill child” where there wasn’t a conscious user “failure” on either or both sides of the sexual act.
When women took children as they came, there were a lot more other women and girls around. Anne of Green Gables was doing childcare for those women with nine kids at age 8. Anyone want to farm their 8yo girls out as free mother’s helpers to some of these women you’re telling to just work harder on NFP? Anne is fiction, but right now in all those parts of the world where women have way more children, it’s not fiction, it’s life. Very young girls assist with much of the childcare and it’s not a solitary job by the mother. Funny how I never see anyone promoting that piece of the puzzle when aggressively swearing that NFP can do no wrong.
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gardenswithkids
Guest
Welcome to Humility 101.
Parenting sure can be a humbling experience, can’t it? As I read your posts I relate with some of your writing and I sympathize with what your going through, but I also see pride. The antidote to pride is humility. Children are of great assistance in helping their parents acquire the virtue of humility.
Yes, you’re a doctor. You may know more about medical matters than the NFP doctors you saw. Maybe you are smarter than the spiritual director you saw. Okay. Got it. You say you’re a good doctor and you’re Catholic. Did you read Humanae Vitae and notice the Church addresses doctors? I posted it below. You’re in a position of authority as a doctor. You’ve got great potential to influence many others to either follow or disregard the Church teachings. The devil knows that, and he’s targeting you. Has it ever occurred to you that the devil wants to make following the Church as hard a possible for you? If he can keep you from following these teachings, he can use you to discourage others from following them too.
:stretcher:
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Regina7
Guest
Ok, so until the RIGHT NOW gets easier, then abstain. No sex means no chance of pregnancy. When life gets easier, often by having older kids to help, then couple can decide to resume relations.
I can name quite a few accident ABC babies. My aunt was on the pill, had a sinus infection so took antibiotics, and here comes my cousin 9 months later. She never read the pharmacy papers and her doc never warned her.
Also, as a director of a pregnancy center, I see many, many women who are pregnant because of failed BC. And from their tears, I’m guessing it wasn’t intentional.
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anthrogirl
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There were members of the Magisterium on the committee that recommended that the church allow the use of the pill. Are they all dead? Maybe. If that’s the case, I change the verb from are to were. But the point is still the same.
I did not imply that chastity was stupid. I just said that was a true sacrifice. And it is.
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Abu
Guest
Being a “member of the Magisterium” does not mean that one is infallible, and ALL who voted contrary to Pope Paul’s definitive teaching against contraception in Humanae Vitae, which has the infallible doctrine, were proved to be in error. Any of them not accepting that are in dissent.
Pope Pius XI in *Casti Connubii *(1930) had already declared infallibly that contraception was gravely evil, and the Commission to deliberate on the “Pill” had no mandate to deliberate on anything else. Those not accepting the infallible declaration in Humanae Vitae were again wrong.
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_Abyssinia
Guest
In post #153 you said you had no children in 10 years with ABC, and two children in three years of NFP. I hope you had just reason to try and avoid pregnancy. The reason you got pregnant is because perhaps you did not use NFP correctly to avoid pregnancy, or you been one of the percentage who got pregnant even though you used NFP correctly. It’s not full proof, but neither is contraception. You may not have got pregnant in 10 years of ABC, but do you doubt that there are people who have? This article on The Atlantic says, “A recent 20-year German study asked 900 women to track their fertility every day by monitoring their body temperature and cervical mucus, and use that information to avoid pregnancy. The study’s researchers found this to be 98.2 percent effective—comparable with the pill, and a far cry from the 82 percent effectiveness rate of the withdrawal method.”:banghead::banghead::banghead:
I just explained why I’m not impressed with the NFP brigade. I am a physician and am comfortably gauging the caliber of physician I encounter. It’s not good when I as a specialist in a different field seem to know more than the GYN.
And I said I did get spiritual direction. I wasn’t impressed with a priest telling me about bearing crosses when I can cite statistics on medical fact for which he has no response. He also has no practical advice on what to do when I’m overwhelmed. I don’t need spiritual direction, I need practical assistance.
20 years seems a long time to do a study like this. I know there are different studies out the with different results regarding failure rates but there are definitely multiple studies that show very low failure rates.
There are medical professionals with a lot of knowledge about NFP, who are GYN’S.
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Memaw
Guest
My property taxes aren’t that much for a year!!. What kind of house do you have anyway, to go up $1,200 a month?? I still drive second hand cars even tho my kids are all adults. NFP if followed CORRECTLY does work!! God gave us NFP, would you say that to HIM, ( “Until they do, they can have their NFP”.) ?? God Bless, Memaw
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PhiloMed
Guest
These sorts of threads really accomplish nothing.
We live in alternate realities.
Not that it’s any of your business, but we live in a modest home in a modest town in a state with one of the highest property tax rates and a high cost of living. We drive one car with 95,000 miles on it and we just bought another used car because the one we were going along with over 100,000 miles was going to require major repairs that were more than the down payment on a newer used one. That’s life. That’s my reality among many others that many here simply are unable to wrap their mind around.
NFP did not work for me. It has wreaked havoc on my life and on my marriage. I’m not interested in oral contraception because that is only temporary.
I find it hysterical that so many think we will all just be happy. NFP users or just have a large family of we only learn the beauty of the Church’s teaching. I am one who appreciates irony so I find it very interesting that the more I follow the advice I’m given the more alone and further from God I feel.
Read HV? HA! Did that. Just brought me to the conclusion that it is not grounded in reality- at least not mine. Again, feeling further from God and more alone.
At some point, the dialogue becomes counterproductive.
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loumeland
Guest
Yes, it did. The Catholic people are following their consciences in this regard. And hypocrisy will continue reigning until something major happens (which I find very likely).
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loumeland
Guest
There are times when you cannot obey two commandments simulatenously, and you have to choose to obey the higher commandment.
“Is it always wrong for me to engage in marital acts with my spouse which are not open to procreating, using artificial means, because we are not psychologically, physically, emotionally, or financially ready for children?” I think Pope Francis would reply, “This question seems too small to me.” We live in a different world from the days of Casti Connubii and even from the 60’s.
If it comes to protecting your marriage versus obeying Church teaching, what will you choose?
Read Matthew 12:1-5, and explain to me what Jesus did here!
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loumeland
Guest
Our world has changed, and the Vatican is ordering itself to walking together with the people. The days of monarchical loftiness are over.
Like any other created organism, the Church is in statu viae and if it does not change, it will die. But the Holy Spirit will prevent her from this.
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