Why do most people ignore the Church's teaching on contraception?

[pensmama87]

I don’t like the Church’s teaching on this, in all honesty. I hate it actually. But I am not so bold as to say the Church is wrong. I admit that the Church in its 2,000 years of existence has more wisdom than I do in my 25. So I personally will not use contraception.

That said, I am a man, not a woman, and so it is quite a different thing for me. Me and my girlfriend have talked about this, as we plan to get married, and I’ve basically told her that whatever course she chooses is between her and God. I have no place to command her about what to do with her own body. I have informed her of what the Church teaches and have left that ball in her court. If she chooses NFP, I will go along with that without complaining. If she chooses to use contraception, that is her choice and it is between her and God, and I will still be intimate with her as there is no sin in that, at least on my part.

I really feel for the women out there, this must be very hard. It seems as if the Church demands the impossible of us. Economic conditions are so brutal the idea of having more than two children is inconceivable to me, not to mention all the dangers pregnancy can entail.

I have tremendous hope in the mercy of God, and feel that much of the contraception going on among faithful Catholics is not truly mortal sin, because I highly doubt there is FULL and DELIBERATE consent or malice. I imagine most Catholics who use it do so grudgingly and under great stress and fear, quite likely mitigating culpability. I know the ideal the Church holds out regarding sexuality, and I also know just how often we all fall short of the ideal. Let us all never despair of trusting in the mercy of God, and let us never become too judgmental, especially on such horrendously difficult and painful topics.

Not to pick on you too much, ALoveDivine - but I think this attitude also explains why contraception is so tempting. Fertility is not exclusively a “female problem,” but for most cultures throughout history it’s been treated that way. Men have, in large part, been legally entitled to the pleasure they want without needing to be concerned about the results. It’s not surprising that women leapt at contraception when it became available (though it’s only worsened the issue overall, IMO - now even more people feel even more entitled to sex earlier in relationships because of the false belief that no baby means no consequences.)

NFP is different for a lot of reasons, but one big one is that both spouses have to commit to it. There’s lots of stories, though, of women who “hate NFP” but the problem is husband will not help chart or pushes woman to ignore chart or accuses her of being frigid or what-have-you. The issue isn’t actually the NFP, but NFP shows it up. And being the humans that we are, sometimeswe like to go back to less healthy ways of relating because at least they are familiar.

(Disclaimer: I am in no way saying this is the sum total of all issues anyone could have with NFP.)

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

@Hoosier Daddy…I was curious about why NFP is limited to stay at home mom crowd? As opposed to the work out of home mom crowd, in your diocese?

I’ve been married for 18 years, and when we had pre-cana, the discussion about why contraception was wrong was addressed, but we didn’t have to take an NFP class.

In real life, I’m not sure I know too many NFP stay at home or work out of home moms.

Just curious.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

@Hoosier Daddy…I was curious about why NFP is limited to stay at home mom crowd? As opposed to the work out of home mom crowd, in your diocese?

I’ve been married for 18 years, and when we had pre-cana, the discussion about why contraception was wrong was addressed, but we didn’t have to take an NFP class.

In real life, I’m not sure I know too many NFP stay at home or work out of home moms.

Just curious.

I don’t really know. I suppose it could have to do with the more traditional view of the SAHM crowd vs regular Catholics. Or it could be that some methods work better if a baby is near the mom all the time breastfeeding. Or other factors. Or it could be my own bias. Who knows… But you can bet somewhere deep in some dark danky basement of a building there is a team of CCL employees crunching spreadsheets of data trying to figure out how to market the trend…
Or I could be wrong…

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

I don’t really know. I suppose it could have to do with the more traditional view of the SAHM crowd vs regular Catholics. Or it could be that some methods work better if a baby is near the mom all the time breastfeeding. Or other factors. Or it could be my own bias. Who knows… But you can bet somewhere deep in some dark danky basement of a building there is a team of CCL employees crunching spreadsheets of data trying to figure out how to market the trend…
Or I could be wrong…

Well, truthfully, I really don’t have any history with CCL, and was never promised any rainbows or unicorns.

My husband’s spiritual advisor, an awesome priest and psychologist, told him point blank, “I think you need to stop using what you are using.” meaning contraception.

And he brought home the most non unicorn or rainbow video about NFP.

It featured a woman who was a doctor in a lab coat, with a wall chart and a pointer, and she was very clinical and monotone.

And I was flabbergasted. "What? Really? this is what we are supposed to use? " And it took maybe another 6 months to convince me.

In retrospect she might have been describing the Billings method.

 

[Burt_Macklin]

Have you tried listening to the problems people are having and working towards real solutions instead of blowing them off? Instead of dismissing the problems as made up or as an attack on the whole teaching of NFP out of spite, try actually seeing that many of us want others to follow that Church’s teaching on sexuality but the current system is instead turning people off. Change is needed. Not change in the Church teachings but change in the way the message is being sent. The Church has a beautiful message full of truth. Unfortunately the current system tries to hide a big chunk of that truth (it’s hard for some and impossible for some) and it discredits the entire message. People don’t trust people that hide things from them or misrepresent reality.

It’s up to you if you decide to share but do you mind telling me the reason NFP doesn’t work for you? My own experience is that we took my wife’s charts to a NFP doctor and were told immediately that NFP wouldn’t work for us as my wife’s cycles were over over 120 days and she had PCOS. The whole process was quick and the charts helped p(name removed by moderator)oint an overlooked health issue. Most of the time that NFP doesn’t work it’s because of a health issue that results in low fertility or infertility so there is little reason to worry about spacing children.

 

[bitterhope]

I have read your posts. I want to express my sympathy for what you have had to deal with. Our experience is very similar to yours. I have shared your posts with my wife and we have discussed this at length the last couple days. Not only that but in a while, I will show this entire thread to our friends who are the only NFP instructors in our diocese. NFP will never be what it should as long as they keep focusing on numbers and selling it as something that works for or even should be used by most. Until then they will continue with the mindset that if it does not work for you then it is your fault. Because to admit anything else would be to admit failure. Notice that this subject gets personal and emotional when challenged because it is not really logical theology at this point. UNIVERSAL NFP is the goal and that will not happen. In our diocese NFP is used by the stay at home mom crowd or the TTC crowd but beyond that, it is a real struggle for the rest of us. And those who point fingers and tell you it is your fault and you are not right if it is not the bestest most wonderful thing ever are really just trying to sell you a used car…

Again, your story rings true to me and I will keep you in my prayers.

Thank you for talking to your instructor friends and thank you for the prayers. We all benefit from the prayers of strangers.

The Church has a very beautiful teaching that is being hidden or at least being watered down simply because it is assumed no one would ever accept allowing God to control their reproduction. He is the Author of Life and we are choosing to forget that at best and change that at worse. If NFP works for a family I think probably it is because God wills that for them. If a couple struggles with it or can’t make it work they should be reassured that God will help them through their struggles and they should be shown the beauty of God’s will for them. My sister could not possibly do what she does professionally if she had the life I’ve been handed. She was blessed with her cross to assure she’s able to help others carry theirs (her words not mine). She does so joyfully and has come into peace by accepting to follow God’s plan. She helped me find my footing as I stumbled around under the weight of my own cross. That is what Jesus modeled for us on His journey to Calvary. Too many other people stick their feet out to trip you when you stumble or throw insults and criticism. Be a Simon instead. Help by acknowledging God has this and we can let go of the fear and control. He won’t let the wood of our cross crush us. We might at times feel like it will or even wish it would. Growing pains are like that. But God will sustain.

I understand that many non believers or lukewarm believers will never accept that part of NFP. I suspect that NFP is really being marketed to that audience and not the truly devout faithful that already accept the Church teaching on family and sexuality. But most of the people that choose to go ahead and learn NFP are the ones trying to follow Church teaching. Others choose to use ABC at least during parts of their cycle. We are losing people when desired results don’t occur because they aren’t prepared to be in that 2% or whatever it is and then are told how much they messed up and that their husband needs to learn to control himself and their dates don’t match up so they must be lying about when sex occurred. Then we have truly devout people also questioning Church teaching and often abandoning it because no one ever told them that NFP isn’t as easy as they were led to believe and they were not told that NFP’s birth control goal is spacing children not preventing them entirely.

 

[ALoveDivine]

Fertility is not exclusively a “female problem,” but for most cultures throughout history it’s been treated that way.

My point is, it’s a lot easier for a man to be “open to life” than for a woman to be. After all I, as a man, don’t have to carry the child in my body and go through all that entails. There is a profound difference between the sexes in this regard, obviously. Given this, I don’t feel entitled to tell a woman how to handle her reproductive functions. That is between her and God and is her decision. I see nothing wrong with taking this position.

NFP is different for a lot of reasons, but one big one is that both spouses have to commit to it. There’s lots of stories, though, of women who “hate NFP” but the problem is husband will not help chart or pushes woman to ignore chart or accuses her of being frigid or what-have-you.

Well first off not all NFP involves charting and crunching numbers. The Standard Days Method and the LadyComp involve none of these things. Those are as simple as using an app or using a device to take your temp once in the morning and then going back to sleep. Ignoring the fertile days is a much bigger concern yes, as I’m sure many couples just don’t have the strength to abstain on those days. Note that women just as much as men may fall into that category.

If it came down to another pregnancy which would result in destitution, eviction, living on the streets and possibly death, verses getting on the pill, due to the couples lack of self-control, I think the pill would be the more moral option. And most sane rational people would agree with me.

But again, I’m not trying to touch this issue with a ten-foot-pole, I’m leaving it up to my future wife. More than likely she’s going to use contraception, because the thought of pregnancy at this point scares her, and though she’s an otherwise faithful and devout Catholic she doesn’t buy into this teaching at all. Yet if she chooses NFP I will do my part and abstain when necessary.

 

[jmjZelie]

I have a real problem with the condemnation of NFP practicioners and the whole NFP industry. I think as Catholics we should support it with gratitude regardless of its flaws. Back in the late 70’s early 80’s when my father was big into Knights, there was a global Knights campaigne against some of the well known pharmaceuticals companies for having purchased rights to fertility awareness prototypes and shelved them so they didn’t compete with the lucrative and burgeoning contraceptives market. That’s what fertility awareness science and research was up against.

It wasn’t until fertility awareness products became popular for the increasing problem of infertility in women and the need for aid in conceiving, that anyone was too interested in paying for the research. That was a good thing for the cause of NFP and the ‘products’ that are so helpful in NFP became part of demand for research into fertility awareness. That market is driven by American Catholics. They have the numbers and the money to pay for products which in turn create the demand that funds the research. The rest of us from smaller and poorer markets around the world are very grateful for the big American market that drives the advances. Anything to make life easier for Catholics especially those from the poor third world countries who have a greater understanding of suffering for Christ and the good of humankind without resentment and demonstrate a great example of the Catholic way.

Much of our angst is due to first world problems which while very real and significant for those suffering… could find purpose and comfort in ‘the bigger picture’.

There is a difference between condemnation and constructive criticism. Bitterhope has repeatedly stated that she is glad that NFP works well for some people who want to avail themselves of the methods. She and many others object to how the method is being taught or described at the parish level in many places. People here are also objecting to how much blaming the victim strategy is used by specifically-named organizations and individuals, in order to maintain a facade of a perfect method. Those who are being criticized are named specifically in the thread and the reasons for the criticisms are laid out, by multiple CAF posters. Constructive criticisms help things change for the better. People have always compared notes about their experience with organizations and other sorts of groups. Transparency and solidarity and honesty are refreshing. Repression of certain voices and ignoring or blaming people is not holy behavior. It would be good for the Church to address these problems, but how would anyone ever know unless the lay faithful married folk discuss these matters? We should want theology being promoted, not ideology.

 

[bitterhope]

It’s up to you if you decide to share but do you mind telling me the reason NFP doesn’t work for you? My own experience is that we took my wife’s charts to a NFP doctor and were told immediately that NFP wouldn’t work for us as my wife’s cycles were over over 120 days and she had PCOS. The whole process was quick and the charts helped p(name removed by moderator)oint an overlooked health issue. Most of the time that NFP doesn’t work it’s because of a health issue that results in low fertility or infertility so there is little reason to worry about spacing children.

Not really sure why, but my current OB and a couple midwives have told me that it is thought a small percentage of women are prone to ovulating multiple times in a cycle. I have been pregnancy twice with twins. I got pregnant another time on day 23 or 24 of a 28 day cycle. I know I ovulated on day 14 or 15 confirmed by a fertility monitor. My husband was deployed at the time and arrived on day 22 or 23. I still had my period on day 28 that month as expected, but I was pregnant at the time. The NFP expert I consulted told me point blank that it was impossible to have conceived and that I should “just admit what was going on during the deployment.” Army OB and midwife weren’t fazed by my dates at all. They both say they see similar things happen pretty regularly. They both said that female fertility has do many variables it’s really impossible to figure out completely. They both say that’s why they prefer dating by ultrasound and not LMP. The OB I currently have is NFP only. He’s the deacon at a local parish. He’s reviewed my charts as well and told me that it is thought that a small percentage of women may be induced ovulators, meaning that hormones released during intercourse encourage ovulation to occur. He says that fertility meds for infertile couples were originally based on this idea. What it basically boils down to is women are a puzzle that haven’t completely been figured out. Averages have been identified and that is what most everything is based on and worked around with variances either direction from normal. But there will always be ladies like your wife and my sister on one side and ladies like me on the other that no matter how hard the experts try they can’t make us fit. Whether it’s me releasing eggs more than once some months or ovulating due to hormones released during intercourse sometimes or whatever it happens to be, it all comes down to God being in control. For whatever reason midwives and OBs have told me they see lots of “couldn’t possibly get pregnant tonight” ladies in their offices and are unfazed by the fact that I’m apparently very fertile. It took a long time and many tears for me to learn to accept that about myself. Being told I was doing things wrong, falsifying charts, cheating on my husband, or that my husband is a sex maniac didn’t help me accept my fertility. It did tempt me to abandon the Church though.

 

[pensmama87]

My point is, it’s a lot easier for a man to be “open to life” than for a woman to be. After all I, as a man, don’t have to carry the child in my body and go through all that entails. There is a profound difference between the sexes in this regard, obviously. Given this, I don’t feel entitled to tell a woman how to handle her reproductive functions. That is between her and God and is her decision. I see nothing wrong with taking this position.

Well first off not all NFP involves charting and crunching numbers. The Standard Days Method and the LadyComp involve none of these things. Those are as simple as using an app or using a device to take your temp once in the morning and then going back to sleep. Ignoring the fertile days is a much bigger concern yes, as I’m sure many couples just don’t have the strength to abstain on those days. Note that women just as much as men may fall into that category.

If it came down to another pregnancy which would result in destitution, eviction, living on the streets and possibly death, verses getting on the pill, due to the couples lack of self-control, I think the pill would be the more moral option. And most sane rational people would agree with me.

But again, I’m not trying to touch this issue with a ten-foot-pole, I’m leaving it up to my future wife. More than likely she’s going to use contraception, because the thought of pregnancy at this point scares her, and though she’s an otherwise faithful and devout Catholic she doesn’t buy into this teaching at all. Yet if she chooses NFP I will do my part and abstain when necessary.

My point is that husbands should do what they can to help their wives shoulder the burden. You saying “I’ll leave this up to my future wife” is not in sync with the Catholic understanding of marriage. In marriage, you are one. You acknowledge the sacrifices a woman might have to make as a result of pregnancy and childbirth. So what can you do to lay down your life for your wife? Can a husband not learn greater self-control? Can he learn to love his wife another way? Could he open his heart to the idea of more children, or expand his understanding of what his responsibilities would be as a father?

I realize you are not a husband or father yet. I have been married five years and have three children. My life looks a lot different now than I thought it would then. My husband and I have lived the contraceptive life (before marriage) and since then we have not. I infinitely prefer the “we’re in this and do this together” approach to the mock-supportive “I’m fine with what you decide” (which lays all responsibility on the wife.) Marriages just cannot work that way, and that goes for whether couples are using NFP or not.

 

[bitterhope]

The first thread on CAF I posted in was about NFP. Someone asked about unplanned surprises and experiences of people who got pregnant when the charts say it wasn’t possible. I said then that I felt like a freak of nature and that is a feeling I had for most of my adult years. I regret ever feeling that way. I pray no other woman looks at herself that way. God gave us a special gift and asks us to trust Him. It’s not a mistake or abnormality.

 

[Regina7]

It’s up to you if you decide to share but do you mind telling me the reason NFP doesn’t work for you? My own experience is that we took my wife’s charts to a NFP doctor and were told immediately that NFP wouldn’t work for us as my wife’s cycles were over over 120 days and she had PCOS. The whole process was quick and the charts helped p(name removed by moderator)oint an overlooked health issue. Most of the time that NFP doesn’t work it’s because of a health issue that results in low fertility or infertility so there is little reason to worry about spacing children.

I don’t understand why nfp “doesn’t work.” I too have severe PCOS and endometriosis. While my chart looks nothing like the ideal, I still know when I’m fertile.

 

[Burt_Macklin]

I don’t understand why nfp “doesn’t work.” I too have severe PCOS and endometriosis. While my chart looks nothing like the ideal, I still know when I’m fertile.

Our doctor told us that she sees many women with PCOS who successfully use NFP for years and years without a hitch only to find out they were infertile the entire time. The most common side effect of PCOS is infertility after all. She told us that absent a blood test we couldn’t distinguish between ovulatory cycles or anovulatory cycles with any great degree of certainty. It could be that we identify fertile days only to have ovulation take place several days later during the supposed postovulatory infertile days. We might even practice NFP for years believing that it is working just fine but that our “success” would only be due to the fact that we only rarely have a fertile cycle.

 

[bitterhope]

I don’t understand why nfp “doesn’t work.” I too have severe PCOS and endometriosis. While my chart looks nothing like the ideal, I still know when I’m fertile.

That’s good. I’m glad that is the case for you. Not all people have that luxury. Once again, not all female bodies work that way. God likes to mix it up I guess.

 

[Regina7]

Our doctor told us that she sees many women with PCOS who successfully use NFP for years and years without a hitch only to find out they were infertile the entire time. The most common side effect of PCOS is infertility after all. She told us that absent a blood test we couldn’t distinguish between ovulatory cycles or anovulatory cycles with any great degree of certainty. It could be that we identify fertile days only to have ovulation take place several days later during the supposed postovulatory infertile days. We might even practice NFP for years believing that it is working just fine but that our “success” would only be due to the fact that we only rarely have a fertile cycle.

Yep, I’m right there- infertility like crazy. But for those on here who are using nfp to avoid, not conceive, it seems like nfp would be working just fine, right? There’s been a few posters who said they keep getting pregnant, have severe PCOS and nfp doesn’t work. It seems like a contradiction to me. Like you said, PCOS is the #1 cause of infertility.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

@bitterhope. I’m just very curious on if you’ve ever used the Creighton method?

I’m not an instructor, but why hasn’t any instructor from the various methods you have used pointed that of course you can conceive on day 28?

Meaning you ovulated then. The “ovulation” mid cycle was probably your body gearing up to ovulate and not because of something, usually stress, you didn’t. When your husband came back is when you actually ovulated. The bleeding you had could have been very likely also stress related, or even implantation bleeding

I know my last child was conceived day 24 of my cycle.

Maybe your instructor didn’t know about double peak? Meaning that the first peak, ovulation doesn’t occur, even though all the symptoms are there, then it occurs later in the month. It’s delayed due to stress.

I know it happens, it’s happened to me.

I’ve also had cycles where the fertility tests were positive various times during the cycle. I’ve learned that you can get a false positive on a fertility stick, if you have pcos.

I think you’ve not really found very good instructors.

 

[Burt_Macklin]

Yep, I’m right there- infertility like crazy. But for those on here who are using nfp to avoid, not conceive, it seems like nfp would be working just fine, right? There’s been a few posters who said they keep getting pregnant, have severe PCOS and nfp doesn’t work. It seems like a contradiction to me. Like you said, PCOS is the #1 cause of infertility.

I’m not really sure what can be going on. It could be that they are identifying what they believe is ovulation but it is really just their body ramping up. If that’s the case then following the rules of NFP would have them identify safe days right during the most fertile period.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Yep, I’m right there- infertility like crazy. But for those on here who are using nfp to avoid, not conceive, it seems like nfp would be working just fine, right? There’s been a few posters who said they keep getting pregnant, have severe PCOS and nfp doesn’t work. It seems like a contradiction to me. Like you said, PCOS is the #1 cause of infertility.

Maybe it’s the methods or the level of expertise in the methods?

I know that with Creighton, on each day one is either fertile or infertile due to observations. And missing just one observation can skew the results.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

I’m not really sure what can be going on. It could be that they are identifying what they believe is ovulation but it is really just their body ramping up. If that’s the case then following the rules of NFP would have them identify safe days right during the most fertile period.

Well it could be. I’ve had double peaks before. They were during periods of high stress. I knew to look for them though.

 

[LongingSoul]

There is a difference between condemnation and constructive criticism. Bitterhope has repeatedly stated that she is glad that NFP works well for some people who want to avail themselves of the methods. She and many others object to how the method is being taught or described at the parish level in many places. People here are also objecting to how much blaming the victim strategy is used by specifically-named organizations and individuals, in order to maintain a facade of a perfect method. Those who are being criticized are named specifically in the thread and the reasons for the criticisms are laid out, by multiple CAF posters. Constructive criticisms help things change for the better. People have always compared notes about their experience with organizations and other sorts of groups. Transparency and solidarity and honesty are refreshing. Repression of certain voices and ignoring or blaming people is not holy behavior. It would be good for the Church to address these problems, but how would anyone ever know unless the lay faithful married folk discuss these matters? We should want theology being promoted, not ideology.

A quick scan back through the thread and I noticed that I posted more theological passages and links in defense of NFP than anyone. For example posts …

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=13550233&postcount=144

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=13554465&postcount=268

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=13547863&postcount=65

And also linked to the really great resource pages from the USCCB…

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=13570624&postcount=411

I certainly don’t promote any crazy ideologies. Only the clear teachings of the Church and the spiritual richness of responsible family planning the natural way. I love the promotion of happy marriage and the witness of those couples who live their trials with joyful integrity. If you think that’s ideological nonsense, that’s beyond my control. But I think to take a personal problem with an instructor and fashion it into a generalised antagonism against the NFP ‘industry’, is what is dishonest and ideological.