Why do most people ignore the Church's teaching on contraception?

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We expect people to exercise self-control (the virtue of temperance) with regards to food and drink. I don’t understand why we think it is impossible to practice temperance with our sexual appetites.

Couples who absolutely have to abstain usually can manage it. There are lots of reasons besides avoiding pregnancy that might require it. It doesn’t mean it’s not hard.
 
What seems to be often overlooked is just how economically unviable it is to have big families these days…well unless you’re rich of course. Us poor people don’t have the luxury of being able to have lots of kids. If you can only afford a studio or a 1 bedroom apartment, you can’t have a lot of kids, the apartment will kick you out. Then where do you go? If you can barely afford to keep your own stomach full, how are you going to feed children?

The reality is, both parents may work full-time jobs and still not be able to keep up with the cost of living. Add multiple children to that and it becomes absolutely impossible to even survive without welfare and/or charity. So though in an ideal world of rainbows and unicorns we would all “accept God’s gifts” and have lots of kids, in the real world that would spell devastation and ruin.

Here’s a question for you all-or-nothing types, if NFP doesn’t work for a couple and they won’t or can’t abstain, is it licit or just for them to have children and put them up for adoption, because they are poor and can’t provide for them? Let’s say after kid 2 no more can be supported by any means, shall kids 3 and 4 and 5 be put up for adoption? I can’t see any other option if there is zero justifiable situation to use contraception.
Our modern economic situation is NOT God’s fault but a man made situation. So why blame God! I had 9 babies, raised 7 of them to adulthood. Lost 2. Also lost 2 husbands. But I was still able to raise my kids on a very limited income. Sent them to Catholic schools, shopped at thrift stores, We certainly didn’t wear stylish labels, but my kids were dressed nicely.I drove 2nd hand cars and still do. My youngest was born in 1975, but after that things started changing in our society. The home we paid $14,000 for would probable sell for $175,000 today. A loaf of bread was about 50 cents, today $2.59. It’s hard for me to believe how much things have changed in the past 50 years. But that is still NOT God’s fault. And we can’t change God’s laws just because we have messed up our society. We need to work hard to get back to loving and serving God and helping others to see how important that is. Then maybe our society will get back to what it should be. Materialism rules our day and of course uncontrolled sex. God Bless, Memaw
 
What seems to be often overlooked is just how economically unviable it is to have big families these days…well unless you’re rich of course. Us poor people don’t have the luxury of being able to have lots of kids. If you can only afford a studio or a 1 bedroom apartment, you can’t have a lot of kids, the apartment will kick you out. Then where do you go? If you can barely afford to keep your own stomach full, how are you going to feed children?

The reality is, both parents may work full-time jobs and still not be able to keep up with the cost of living. Add multiple children to that and it becomes absolutely impossible to even survive without welfare and/or charity. So though in an ideal world of rainbows and unicorns we would all “accept God’s gifts” and have lots of kids, in the real world that would spell devastation and ruin.

Here’s a question for you all-or-nothing types, if NFP doesn’t work for a couple and they won’t or can’t abstain, is it licit or just for them to have children and put them up for adoption, because they are poor and can’t provide for them? Let’s say after kid 2 no more can be supported by any means, shall kids 3 and 4 and 5 be put up for adoption? I can’t see any other option if there is zero justifiable situation to use contraception.
Exactly, exactly, exactly. We need to get out of the world of neat little theories and see how this actually plays out of real life. We need to start our conversations FROM this existential point of view.
 
Exactly, exactly, exactly. We need to get out of the world of neat little theories and see how this actually plays out of real life. We need to start our conversations FROM this existential point of view.
The people on this thread, by far, have actually lived Catholic family life… We are not talking theory.
 
What seems to be often overlooked is just how economically unviable it is to have big families these days…well unless you’re rich of course. Us poor people don’t have the luxury of being able to have lots of kids. If you can only afford a studio or a 1 bedroom apartment, you can’t have a lot of kids, the apartment will kick you out. Then where do you go? If you can barely afford to keep your own stomach full, how are you going to feed children?

The reality is, both parents may work full-time jobs and still not be able to keep up with the cost of living. Add multiple children to that and it becomes absolutely impossible to even survive without welfare and/or charity. So though in an ideal world of rainbows and unicorns we would all “accept God’s gifts” and have lots of kids, in the real world that would spell devastation and ruin.

Here’s a question for you all-or-nothing types, if NFP doesn’t work for a couple and they won’t or can’t abstain, is it licit or just for them to have children and put them up for adoption, because they are poor and can’t provide for them? Let’s say after kid 2 no more can be supported by any means, shall kids 3 and 4 and 5 be put up for adoption? I can’t see any other option if there is zero justifiable situation to use contraception.
:rolleyes:

I have 10 living children, 2 miscarried, 1 still born…we have accepted God’s generous, life enhancing, soul enriching, Grace abounding Gifts. We have not see devastation or ruin. We haven’t seen unicorns. We have seen many rainbows in the sky after heavy storms and after gentle rains. Funny how God plans those things.

No marriage goes without its crosses, only those wishing for unicorns by following their misguided wills would expect such a thing.
Exactly, exactly, exactly. We need to get out of the world of neat little theories and see how this actually plays out of real life. We need to start our conversations FROM this existential point of view.
My life is not a theory. It’s as real as it gets.
 
Exactly, exactly, exactly. We need to get out of the world of neat little theories and see how this actually plays out of real life. We need to start our conversations FROM this existential point of view.
Authentic Truth is what we are called to. I live church teaching in my marriage daily. And it hurts. It is sacrificial. As marriage and parenthood should be.
 
What seems to be often overlooked is just how economically unviable it is to have big families these days…well unless you’re rich of course. Us poor people don’t have the luxury of being able to have lots of kids. If you can only afford a studio or a 1 bedroom apartment, you can’t have a lot of kids, the apartment will kick you out. Then where do you go? If you can barely afford to keep your own stomach full, how are you going to feed children?

The reality is, both parents may work full-time jobs and still not be able to keep up with the cost of living. Add multiple children to that and it becomes absolutely impossible to even survive without welfare and/or charity. So though in an ideal world of rainbows and unicorns we would all “accept God’s gifts” and have lots of kids, in the real world that would spell devastation and ruin.

Here’s a question for you all-or-nothing types, if NFP doesn’t work for a couple and they won’t or can’t abstain, is it licit or just for them to have children and put them up for adoption, because they are poor and can’t provide for them? Let’s say after kid 2 no more can be supported by any means, shall kids 3 and 4 and 5 be put up for adoption? I can’t see any other option if there is zero justifiable situation to use contraception.
The Church doesn’t say that you have to have more kids than you can afford. But the only moral options for limiting pregnancies in times of financial difficulties are NFP and abstinence. Not contraception.

If NFP doesn’t work, you can abstain. Really, it is possible. It’s hard, it’s a cross, but it’s not impossible. What if, after a few years of marriage, one spouse developed a medical condition that made intercourse impossible (not pregnancy, just sex itself)? Would it be okay for the healthy spouse to have an affair because he/she just can’t go without? I don’t think so.

Also just keep in mind that contraception is not foolproof. There are plenty of unplanned pregnancies that occur when contraception is used.
 
The people on this thread, by far, have actually lived Catholic family life… We are not talking theory.
What do you think the theologians of Jesus’ day would have reasoned in light of Jesus’ alleged breaking the Sabbath?

“This man is not of God because he goes against Torah teaching. There are six days one should work, and there is absolutely no justification for his disciples to go through the grain fields today. I understand that they are poor and hungry, isn’t this a cross we all should bear?”

“These 13 men are not following the narrow path. But hey- Enoch said, ‘See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness.’ Only a few will be saved.”

“Wow. Jesus and his followers are letting something as little as grain keep them from eternal life.”

“There’s no excuse for this. That’s just moral relativism. There is provision for hungry people- it’s called SUF (Saving Up Food the day before). But I guess their belly god overcame.”
 
What do you think the theologians of Jesus’ day would have reasoned in light of Jesus’ alleged breaking the Sabbath?

“This man is not of God because he goes against Torah teaching. There are six days one should work, and there is absolutely no justification for his disciples to go through the grain fields today. I understand that they are poor and hungry, isn’t this a cross we all should bear?”

“These 13 men are not following the narrow path. But hey- Enoch said, ‘See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness.’ Only a few will be saved.”

“Wow. Jesus and his followers are letting something as little as grain keep them from eternal life.”

“There’s no excuse for this. That’s just moral relativism. There is provision for hungry people- it’s called SUF (Saving Up Food the day before). But I guess their belly god overcame.”
Ok so prove where abc is holy. Where it helps us get to heaven? Where it heals instead of destroys. Because the point of Jesus healing on the sabbath was to help people. He kept the sabbath by establishing virtue and works being a holy thing of salvific quality. What Jesus did not do was break a rule to do something weak or destructive or intrinsically evil.
 
Ok so prove where abc is holy. Where it helps us get to heaven? Where it heals instead of destroys. Because the point of Jesus healing on the sabbath was to help people. He kept the sabbath by establishing virtue and works being a holy thing of salvific quality. What Jesus did not do was break a rule to do something weak or destructive or intrinsically evil.
(Non abortifacent, artificial) Contraceptives are not holy or unholy themselves- they are a tool. It could be used with a contraceptive mindset, which would be wrong. But one could argue that it can be used for the holy purpose of intelligent and responsible family planning and parenting. Receiving that child with open arms when both parents are emotionally, financially, psychologically, and physically ready to do their very best to raise him/her in the fear and admonition of the Lord. This would be holy.
 
We expect people to exercise self-control (the virtue of temperance) with regards to food and drink. I don’t understand why we think it is impossible to practice temperance with our sexual appetites.

Couples who absolutely have to abstain usually can manage it. There are lots of reasons besides avoiding pregnancy that might require it. It doesn’t mean it’s not hard.
Hmmm…
 
The Church doesn’t say that you have to have more kids than you can afford. But the only moral options for limiting pregnancies in times of financial difficulties are NFP and abstinence. Not contraception.

If NFP doesn’t work, you can abstain. Really, it is possible. It’s hard, it’s a cross, but it’s not impossible. What if, after a few years of marriage, one spouse developed a medical condition that made intercourse impossible (not pregnancy, just sex itself)? Would it be okay for the healthy spouse to have an affair because he/she just can’t go without? I don’t think so.

Also just keep in mind that contraception is not foolproof. There are plenty of unplanned pregnancies that occur when contraception is used.
Multiple testimonies on this forum point to the fact that NFP does not work. Abstaining within the context of marriage is never to be the norm but the exception (1 Cor. 7:1-5, 9). Contrary to the opinion of many here, St. Paul points to sex within marriage as the antidote for lack of self-control!
 
Multiple testimonies on this forum point to the fact that NFP does not work. Abstaining within the context of marriage is never to be the norm but the exception (1 Cor. 7:1-5, 9). Contrary to the opinion of many here, St. Paul points to sex within marriage as the antidote for lack of self-control!
Many of the posters for whom NFP doesn’t work still aren’t advocating contraception. Bitterhope, for one, who has had a terrible time using NFP, has explicitly said that the Church’s teaching on contraception is a beautiful truth.

Abstinence in marriage is far from the norm. And the ideal. But it doesn’t change the fact that contraception is a sin.

But you didn’t answer my question as to what married couples for whom sex is physically impossible are supposed to do?

And isn’t contraception condemned in another one of St. Paul’s letters, when he lists “pharmakea” as a sin?
 
Many of the posters for whom NFP doesn’t work still aren’t advocating contraception. Bitterhope, for one, who has had a terrible time using NFP, has explicitly said that the Church’s teaching on contraception is a beautiful truth.

Abstinence in marriage is far from the norm. And the ideal. But it doesn’t change the fact that contraception is a sin.

But you didn’t answer my question as to what married couples for whom sex is physically impossible are supposed to do?

And isn’t contraception condemned in another one of St. Paul’s letters, when he lists “pharmakea” as a sin?
An affair is never justified. A medical condition is a medical condition, and as such, it’s outside the norm (as is blindness, homosexual desires, psychological disorders) and a cross to carry. We’re talking about a normal marriage relationship.

As far as pharmakea, this alludes to many kinds of drugs that were often tied to pagan rituals, one of which rendered a woman completely infertile and unable to conceive. There were also some abortifacent drugs. Nothing to do with the contraception in question.
 
(Non abortifacent, artificial) Contraceptives are not holy or unholy themselves- they are a tool. It could be used with a contraceptive mindset, which would be wrong. But one could argue that it can be used for the holy purpose of intelligent and responsible family planning and parenting. Receiving that child with open arms when both parents are emotionally, financially, psychologically, and physically ready to do their very best to raise him/her in the fear and admonition of the Lord. This would be holy.
How can they be used with anything other than a contraceptive mindset? A contraceptive mindset is one that separates the unitive and procreative aspects of the union. A contraceptive mindset is one that separates sex from babies. A contraceptive mindset is one that says I am entitled to the pleasures of sex without the natural potential outcome of the act–and that’s where we are today. By their very use one adopts a contraceptive mindset and we shouldn’t fool ourselves about that.

I’d be a liar if I said I hadn’t struggled with this over the years, but I find that the relative difficulty of my struggle depends on my focus–on where my thoughts are directed and this can be greatly affected by what I watch, and who I associate with.

The peace of Christ,
Mark
 
An affair is never justified. A medical condition is a medical condition, and as such, it’s outside the norm (as is blindness, homosexual desires, psychological disorders) and a cross to carry. We’re talking about a normal marriage relationship.

As far as pharmakea, this alludes to many kinds of drugs that were often tied to pagan rituals, one of which rendered a woman completely infertile and unable to conceive. There were also some abortifacent drugs. Nothing to do with the contraception in question.
But that’s just my point. If someone with a spouse who can’t have sex for medical reasons is able to abstain indefinitely, then a married couple for whom NFP doesn’t work are technically able to abstain indefinitely. Many on this thread are implying that abstinence in marriage is impossible. It’s not.

That’s not to say it’s easy. It’s a cross, just like not being able to have sex with your spouse due to a medical condition is a cross. And those who are bearing such a cross should receive support and understanding.

I understand what you’re saying about St. Paul’s reference to pharmakea possibly not referring to condoms and other barrier methods. But one could argue that any form of contraception, even if it is not permanent or an abortifacient, still fits into the category of rendering people infertle, even if it’s temporary.
 
How can they be used with anything other than a contraceptive mindset? A contraceptive mindset is one that separates the unitive and procreative aspects of the union. A contraceptive mindset is one that separates sex from babies. A contraceptive mindset is one that says I am entitled to the pleasures of sex without the natural potential outcome of the act–and that’s where we are today. By their very use one adopts a contraceptive mindset and we shouldn’t fool ourselves about that.

I’d be a liar if I said I hadn’t struggled with this over the years, but I find that the relative difficulty of my struggle depends on my focus–on where my thoughts are directed and this can be greatly affected by what I watch, and who I associate with.

The peace of Christ,
Mark
I agree with everything you’ve said here. But, just to make a fair argument, isn’t it possible to use NFP with the same “I want to have sex and not get pregnant” mentality - a mentality that is going to view an unplanned baby as a burden?
 
We expect people to exercise self-control (the virtue of temperance) with regards to food and drink. I don’t understand why we think it is impossible to practice temperance with our sexual appetites.

Couples who absolutely have to abstain usually can manage it. There are lots of reasons besides avoiding pregnancy that might require it. It doesn’t mean it’s not hard.
Very well said.
 
Multiple testimonies on this forum point to the fact that NFP does not work.
The fact that NFP doesn’t work? It’s a fact? I don’t think so.

Let’s take a look at what Planned Parenthood (Anti-Catholic) says about NFP:
Like all birth control methods, fertility awareness-based methods are more effective when you use them correctly.
Twenty-four out of every 100 couples who use fertility awareness-based methods each year will have a pregnancy if they don’t always use the method correctly or consistently. Always practicing these methods correctly will make them more effective.
How well fertility awareness-based methods work depends on both partners. That’s why it is important for both to learn about the methods and support each other in their use.
Now let’s see what they say about condoms:
If you use condoms perfectly every single time you have sex, they’re 98% effective at preventing pregnancy. But people aren’t perfect, so in real life condoms are about 82% effective — that means about 18 out of 100 people who use condoms as their only birth control method will get pregnant each year.
The better you are about using condoms correctly every time you have sex, the better they’ll work. But there’s a small chance that you will get pregnant even if you always use them the right way.
And the pill:
Code:
Less than 1 out of 100 women will get pregnant each year if they always take the pill each day as directed.
About 9 out of 100 women will get pregnant each year if they don’t always take the pill each day as directed.
The pill may be slightly less effective for women who are very overweight. Talk with your health care provider if you are concerned about how well the pill may work for you.
Even the most anti-Christian organization believes NFP can be effective/can work.
 
Hoosier Daddy #509
In post 122 you cite this exact wording in the CCC. But it does not reference a paragraph number but a page number. I cannot find this online.
The continued failure to realise that the clearly referenced **“The Catholic Catechism, Fr John A Hardon, S.J.,” **is NOT the CCC, and the apparent lack of knowledge of that esteemed author, indicate the lack in knowledge that can and does exist.

The quotations indicate the absence of understanding of periodic cycles for more accurate use which came only with French researchers in the 19th century.

“In country after country and in every country, bishops and councils forbid ‘contraceptive portions,’ ‘herbs or other agents so you will not have children,’ ‘spilling the seed in coitus,’ ‘coitus interruptus,’ ‘poisons of sterility,’ ‘avoiding children by evil acts,’ ‘putting material things in the vagina,’ and ‘causing temporary or permanent sterility.’ These and similar statements occur in ecclesiastical documents before the end of the thirteenth century.” (The Catholic Catechism, Fr John A Hardon, S.J., Doubleday, 1975, p 370).

As the revered Fr John A Hardon, S.J., affirms, medical papyri describe contraceptive methods from 2700 B.C. in China and from 1850 B/C. in Egypt. Ephesian gynecologist Soranos (A.D. 98-138) described no less than seventeen medically approved methods. These methods were referred to as “using magic” and “using drugs” and had nothing to do with fertile or infertile periods which were unknown. Soranos thought that it was safer “to prevent conception from taking place than to destroy the fetus” already conceived. (The Catholic Catechism, Doubleday, 1975, p 367).

“Father John A. Hardon, S.J. was one of the greatest teachers of the Catholic Faith during the twentieth century. He was a prolific writer and mentor in the Catholic Faith, as evidenced by the following resources.”
mariancatechist.com/hardon/hardon.html

Father John A. Hardon was a tireless Catholic writer. Some of his best-known books are The Catholic Catechism, the* Modern Catholic Dictionary,* and the Treasury of Catholic Wisdom. But over and above these, he wrote literally thousands of articles of timeless value dealing with practically all aspects of the Catholic Faith. Many of these are contained in this archive. Upon reading them you will discover the mind and expressions of a saint who always wrote to help his readers more deeply know and love the Catholic Church and her faith. Few, either in the past or in the present, have written about these matters as well as Father Hardon.
Fr. Burns K. Seeley, S.S.J.C., Ph.D
therealpresence.org/archives/archives.htm

As quoted:
THE SEXUAL REVOLUTION
Part 1: How Christians Came to Accept It
by John F. Kippley

“While the laws of Leviticus forbade the marriage act during menses and for a week thereafter with great fertility for the Jewish people, this was not linked in any medical or scientific way to NFP until in the mid-nineteenth century French researchers dealing with domestic animals discovered a relationship between certain bodily discharges and fertility. Scientists and others quickly wondered whether this was likewise true in humans. They speculated that a woman was fertile during her menstrual flow and infertile thereafter.” [My underlining].

Facts:
“John F. Kippley has been active in the family planning movement since 1968 and co-authored *The Art of Natural Family Planning *with his wife, Sheila. Recently they wrote an on-line manual—Natural Family Planning, launched a website (www.NFPandmore.org), and founded NFP International. Mr. Kippley has also written Marriage Is For Keeps and many articles, some of which are available at their website.”
goodreads.com/author/show/191806.John_F_Kippley
 
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