Why do most people ignore the Church's teaching on contraception?

[Xantippe]

I believe that what LongingSoul and Xantippe are saying is that some people might offer quippy answers like “I don’t like kids” because the honest answer “my brother molested me” is both painful and nobody’s business.

Right.

Even without huge, painful reasons, I know that I personally don’t talk to anybody in real life except my husband in any great detail about our family planning. Everybody else (including my beloved sis, good friends, and even my doctor) is on a need-to-know basis. I’m generally pretty vague and evasive about our plans when asked if we are planning on more children–because if they don’t NEED to know one way or the other, I’m not telling them.

There were times in the past when there were huge painful reasons (our autistic oldest used to have huge, violent, scary multi-hour tantrums) and that wasn’t something I was in a big hurry to share with a casual acquaintance, or even people close to me that wouldn’t understand.

With any sensitive question like family planning, an explanation offered for public consumption may be very different from the private truth.

 

[LongingSoul]

I believe that what LongingSoul and Xantippe are saying is that some people might offer quippy answers like “I don’t like kids” because the honest answer “my brother molested me” is both painful and nobody’s business.

Exactly. Normally quippy answers are perfectly reasonable and taken by others without judgement because most people respect the intimate life of a couple as private.

Having experienced a callous judgement myself recently I started to question the value of all my acts. I remember 26 years ago when my first child was stillborn on Christmas Day… I was very aware of how uncomfortable my family and friends were on the first Christmas Day anniversary. I made a commitment to be light and joyful from then on to relieve the discomfort of my family. I hope now, that unlike some on this site who would have deemed that as me being a callous, uncaring mother… that my family would have appreciated my efforts to not milk their sympathy and wallow in my sadness. I did it for the most honourable of reasons but I now know that people who want to judge and condemn will do so no matter what your motive.

 

[bitterhope]

Could you explain to me, then, whether it is a sin or not for a married couple to use NFP to limit their family to one or two kids because “kids drive us nuts”, and “we don’t like going to soccer practice every Friday night, we’d rather be out partying” and that kind of thing?

This is what she asked and what I responded about. None of the statements in the other post I quoted were an answer to those questions. These questions are better summed up by kids being an annoyance and/or burden that prevents having a good time because I would rather be doing something else than I’m taking a medication. I’m not sure how else they can be interrupted.

Kptrs, could you let me know what you meant those statements to mean? Is kids are annoying a good interpretation or did you mean something else entirely?

 

[bitterhope]

I believe that what LongingSoul and Xantippe are saying is that some people might offer quippy answers like “I don’t like kids” because the honest answer “my brother molested me” is both painful and nobody’s business.

I get that, but it isn’t answering her question. I don’t think it is right to assume another person’s reasons for anything but if a person is truly asking if the reasons she stated are good reasons, then that person deserves an answer. Many people are trying to grow in holiness and they deserve help in that. It isn’t right to judge another person but we are supposed to work on ourselves.

 

[E_7]

And yes, St Paul does not say abstaining should be the norm and neither does the Church. She says that NFP is an option for difficult situations. No one should start with using NFP to avoid children as the default, but it should be used as the case warrants. Many couples chart for awareness, but do not use the “rules for avoiding” until the need arises. Others have reasons to avoid and are given a merciful option when they must avoid. Yes it doesn’t work for some, but I suspect there are many that simply have never tried.

Yes!

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

No, there are several examples where NFP did not work for some couples. That does not mean it doesn’t “work”. Some cancers are resistant to chemotherapy, but that does not mean that chemo doesn’t work.

These kind of statements always reminds me of a conversation I had with our bishop when talking about the difficulties of teaching NFP (many NFP instructors eventually stop teaching because the outright hostility to Church teaching wears them down). We were teaching a class and one of the student couples asked how effective it was. My wife and I looked at each other and said “It’s very effective. We conceived a child every time we tried. ” The bishop thought it was funny, but I can guarantee the couple didn’t. Why? Because many people see it as a way to contracept in an approved way. They want to know if it is effective to control getting pregnant without the acceptance that children are inexorably linked to sexual intercourse. Many of those that think in those terms often abandon NFP once they realize that you have to temper your wants, or even needs, with sacrifice.

And yes, St Paul does not say abstaining should be the norm and neither does the Church. She says that NFP is an option for difficult situations. No one should start with using NFP to avoid children as the default, but it should be used as the case warrants. Many couples chart for awareness, but do not use the “rules for avoiding” until the need arises. Others have reasons to avoid and are given a merciful option when they must avoid. Yes it doesn’t work for some, but I suspect there are many that simply have never tried.

Careful, people will start assuming we are the same person!
Nice post!

 

[LongingSoul]

Originally Posted by Usige

There isn’t a default position. Pope Francis reaffirmed that Catholics aren’t obliged to be like the rabbits. God gave us an ability to reason and work with the world, the culture and the personal gifts He gave us to bring about the Kingdom of Heaven. As long as we don’t abuse the gift of sex with lust, we are obliged only to work with society and our own capacities in the formation of our family.

 

[Usige]

There isn’t a default position. Pope Francis reaffirmed that Catholics aren’t obliged to be like the rabbits. God gave us an ability to reason and work with the world, the culture and the personal gifts He gave us to bring about the Kingdom of Heaven. As long as we don’t abuse the gift of sex with lust, we are obliged only to work with society and our own capacities in the formation of our family.

Nothing in what I wrote disagrees with that. What I was getting at is people should not enter marraige with a concrete plan that they will use NFP for 5-10 years, have 1 kid when they are ready and then use NFP for the next 10+ years. NFP only works when there is on going communication and both spouses are in agreement. You cannot simply be on autopilot to avoid children with NFP like you can with the pill.

While Pope Francis said that we shouldn’t be like rabbits, it was in the context of having children without regard for other factors. There should always be a good reason to avoid, not simply putting it off for some nebulously defined future time. Perhaps the conditions for avoiding last years and that’s fine, but there should be on going discussion and not simply saying “we said we’d have one kid and we are never discussing it again.” Blessed Paul VI was very clear that we must be careful to ensure that long term or permanent avoidance is not motivated by selfishness.

 

[Usige]

Careful, people will start assuming we are the same person!
Nice post!

If the worst people think is that I am you, I can live with that.

 

[kptrs]

No. That’s your interpretation. She didn’t ask that at all. She quoted particular text and asked us to judge the text. I have the experience of writing a PM to someone on CAF as a genuine response to a persons sorrowful predicament and experienced the slight of accusation of a malicious attack. People misjudge and condemn the innocent motives of others very regularly when they read text. It’s wreckless and sinful.

Actually, it is exactly what I asked. My wording may have been poor, but that’s what I meant. I don’t go around judging people by what they say. I just tend to understand things better with concrete examples.

I’m frequently confused about the “just reasons” for using NFP. I also tend to have a scrupulous conscience, so I’m frequently asking myself if my reasons for using NFP are legitimate or not. The quotes I provided were general and hypothetical. I really am just trying to learn. I’m well-aware that only God can judge others; I am by no means trying to judge anyone. Just trying to improve my own self.

Thank you, bitterhope, for your beautiful post.

 

[kptrs]

This is what she asked and what I responded about. None of the statements in the other post I quoted were an answer to those questions. These questions are better summed up by kids being an annoyance and/or burden that prevents having a good time because I would rather be doing something else than I’m taking a medication. I’m not sure how else they can be interrupted.

Kptrs, could you let me know what you meant those statements to mean? Is kids are annoying a good interpretation or did you mean something else entirely?

Yes, I meant generally viewing children as an annoyance. Your interpretation is accurate.

I don’t mean to be judgemental toward any “real person” who has said these things. I’m just trying to better understand what constitutes a just reason to use NFP and what doesn’t, so I can personally avoid using NFP for unjust reasons.

 

[pensmama87]

Actually, it is exactly what I asked. My wording may have been poor, but that’s what I meant. I don’t go around judging people by what they say. I just tend to understand things better with concrete examples.

I’m frequently confused about the “just reasons” for using NFP. I also tend to have a scrupulous conscience, so I’m frequently asking myself if my reasons for using NFP are legitimate or not. The quotes I provided were general and hypothetical. I really am just trying to learn. I’m well-aware that only God can judge others; I am by no means trying to judge anyone. Just trying to improve my own self.

Thank you, bitterhope, for your beautiful post.

I think you highlight an important point here - the “just reasons” we need to concern ourselves with are our own. Different people can handle different things. If you tend toward scruples, then please discuss your reasons with a priest or spiritual director.

I’ll recommend Simcha Fisher’s book again too as it covers this topic and others: * The%between% Sinner’s Guide to Natural Family Planning.*

 

[Xantippe]

I think you highlight an important point here - the “just reasons” we need to concern ourselves with are our own.

Yes!

 

[kptrs]

You can also revisit a thread I started a while ago called “The Truth About NFP.” Toward the end of the thread you will see where I gently called someone out on assuming their friend’s reasons for using NFP were selfish.

 

[pensmama87]

But let’s take annoyance as an example. I’m annoyed at my children a lot because they do annoying things. But I expect that, they’re children, I cope with it well (most of the time ) and my being annoyed isn’t getting in the way of being a good mother. So for me, no, it wouldn’t be sufficient reason (at least not by itself). But if I couldn’t cope well? If the thought of another whiny toddler did nothing but fill me with dread? Seems like a good time to hit pause - which is temporary, by the way. In a few months maybe that phase passes. Maybe I learn some new way of coping or parenting technique that helps me get along with my kids better. So now we can revisit our reasons. Or the situation stays the same and we decide to revisit it again later.

NFP is a constant discernment process. It’s not a one-time decision thing. That’s part of the beauty of it, and what makes it hard.

 

[Xantippe]

These are not the reason she asked about. She asked if limiting kids simply because they annoy you is a moral use of NFP. I was a person that honestly had that, and a few other similar reasons, for attempting NFP. I simply did not want a house full like I grew up around. My husband only has a sister so he wasn’t used to the chaos I was. We did not have money and I was determined to be a pharmacist and then put him through school to become an architect. We had big dreams! It was selfish thinking that way. Not the education and career plans, but the thinking that kids should take the back seat. I have confessed this to a priest and he told me that it is more common than people admit. He agreed it was sinful. He said he wishes more people would come to that realization.

There are times that NFP is moral, but muddying the water with the things you listed when a straight forward question was asked isn’t at all helpful. People are trying to grow in holiness. That’s why they come here to read these ridiculously long threads about topics that they don’t feel comfortable asking about in real life. I agree that it isn’t our place to try to determine someone else’s sins or intent or reasoning. It is a legitimate question she asked though and she deserves a straight forward answer.

Accepting a child when it is uncomfortable is how I grew spiritually. Even though I was used to the noise and mess and chaos, I wanted something different for myself. I tried to make it about my kids (they deserve better) and about my husband (he isn’t used to all this) but honestly it was about me. I was selfishly believing I was worth more than that kind of existence. I was too smart to stay home popping out babies. I was too tired to clean up after another kid. I was worth more than to wear the same tennis shoes with every single outfit. I had to admit all that to myself. I had to quit making excuses.

I’m not saying anyone else is self for wanting any one thing in particular. I’m saying for me it was selfish. It was prideful. I had to overcome that. So yes, I do think a person can very well use NFP selfishly and sinfully. Even if it did not work for me, that was my intent. When I talked to my priest he agreed it was sinful in my case.

I did answer the initial question in #552 and argue that a person can genuinely have trouble dealing with children, and that that isn’t moral culpability on their part. The list you find objectionable came after a lot of discussion about that. I will quote myself:

“We have an older male relative in our family who can just BARELY stand hosting our two well-behaved school kids for a week/week and a half. He is very sensitive to noise (I’ve had him demonstrate correct door opening protocol to me) and the slightest disorder. He and his wife raised two very widely spaced children. I don’t know if he was less sensitive in his younger years, but knowing what I know of this particular relative, I have a hard time imagining him being a good father to a larger family. He is very good one-on-one with our kids, but not with two. We haven’t gone to visit with all three of our children yet, because we don’t think he could cope with it. There really are people who are neurologically different and who react in unpredictable ways to sensory stimulus that other people barely notice.”

This particular male relative is a very devout Catholic, he loves our children, I’m sure he has never in a million years said that kids (in general) make him nuts and he is theoretically all in favor of large families, but the fact is, that he does a beautiful job with ONE child, but copes noticeably less well when there is more than one child in the house (even very big children). Two big kids is pretty much the outer limit of his ability to cope, and we haven’t even attempted to visit with three. He is especially challenged by small children.

Psychological reasons **are **mentioned in official Church documents as valid reasons, as Longing Soul mentioned. In Humanae Vitae, the list given is “physical, economic, psychological and social conditions.”

That’s pretty darn all-encompassing.

The title of this thread is “Why do most people ignore the Church’s teaching on contraception?”

I actually think that a lot of people who are “good Catholics” are ignoring the Church’s teaching on contraception, given how much a lot of people resist the idea that there are in fact serious reasons.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

I think you highlight an important point here - the “just reasons” we need to concern ourselves with are our own. Different people can handle different things. If you tend toward scruples, then please discuss your reasons with a priest or spiritual director.

I’ll recommend Simcha Fisher’s book again too as it covers this topic and others: * The%between%* Sinner’s Guide to Natural Family Planning.

I agree with pensmama87. If you suffer with scrupulosity especially.

I also like Simcha’s book.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Yes!

Yes + 1!

 

[loumeland]

“Deep within his conscience man discovers a law which he has not laid upon himself but which he must obey. Its voice, ever calling him to love and to do what is good and to avoid evil, sounds in his heart at the right moment. . . . For man has in his heart a law inscribed by God. . . . His conscience is man’s most secret core and his sanctuary. There he is alone with God whose voice echoes in his depths.” (CCC 1776).

After all is said and done, never, ever go against your conscience. Pray, study, debate, think, agonize, but never go against your conscience.

 

[Xantippe]

“Deep within his conscience man discovers a law which he has not laid upon himself but which he must obey. Its voice, ever calling him to love and to do what is good and to avoid evil, sounds in his heart at the right moment. . . . For man has in his heart a law inscribed by God. . . . His conscience is man’s most secret core and his sanctuary. There he is alone with God whose voice echoes in his depths.” (CCC 1776).

After all is said and done, never, ever go against your conscience. Pray, study, debate, think, agonize, but never go against your conscience.

My husband says (and I think this is true) that individual conscience is most reliable when it tells us what NOT to do.

It is a less infallible judge of what we SHOULD do.