Why do most people ignore the Church's teaching on contraception?

[Xantippe]

There are times that NFP is moral, but muddying the water with the things you listed when a straight forward question was asked isn’t at all helpful. People are trying to grow in holiness. That’s why they come here to read these ridiculously long threads about topics that they don’t feel comfortable asking about in real life. I agree that it isn’t our place to try to determine someone else’s sins or intent or reasoning. It is a legitimate question she asked though and she deserves a straight forward answer.

One of the areas people can grow in holiness is learning to treat others with charity, rather than assuming that they must be acting selfishly.

So, that’s another area available for moral growth.

 

[PaulinVA]

The thread has turned to an interesting point, an interesting reason why people might not want to follow the Church’s teaching on contraception. There might be a fear, besides the normal reasons, that one is also agreeing to have a lot of kids, either by accident or on purpose.

There is an undercurrent swirling along contraception discussions in the Church that couples should be having a lot of kids. Whether true or not, that is part of the NFP “thing”.

Even though the Church seems to be totally subjective as to reasons to avoid, avoidance is characterized as a “bad thing” you have to have “just reasons” for. You should be out there having babies, babies, babies. Whether official or unofficial, that’s the Church vibe.

It’s easier for people not to deal with those issues and just use ABC.

 

[PaulinVA]

My husband says (and I think this is true) that individual conscience is most reliable when it tells us what NOT to do.

It is a less infallible judge of what we SHOULD do.

DING DING DING. I think the “primacy of the conscience” deals with just that - the Church says I CAN do this but I’m not comfortable doing it, so I won’t.

 

[Rico_S]

We were teaching a class and one of the student couples asked how effective it was. My wife and I looked at each other and said “It’s very effective. We conceived a child every time we tried. ” The bishop thought it was funny, but I can guarantee the couple didn’t. Why? Because many people see it as a way to contracept in an approved way. They want to know if it is effective to control getting pregnant without the acceptance that children are inexorably linked to sexual intercourse.

Yes. I think you did the couple asking the question (and the class) a huge disservice. The Church does teach us that we are called to responsible parenthood, that the decision to delay having more children is between the couple and God (you aren’t involved), and that NFP is absolutely a moral method for regulating births. People who have serious need to avoid need to know the effectiveness. Your quippy self righteous response more likely pushed them toward ABC then to some epiphany that they should have lots of kids b/c sex=kids.

Reminds me of a pre-cana class where we helped out. Among other things, we were part of a panel with other married couples where the class had the opportunity to ask direct question to married catholic couple of varied ages and backgrounds. One person asked “how effective is NFP?” Before anyone had a chance to respond, a couple on the panel who has been married 8 years with 5 kids and one more on the way pipes up and says , “It’s super effective…we never became pregnant unless we were trying”

 

[loumeland]

DING DING DING. I think the “primacy of the conscience” deals with just that - the Church says I CAN do this but I’m not comfortable doing it, so I won’t.

St. Paul has a different idea-

“They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing “don’t do this”] them and at other times even defending them** “do this”]**.” (Rom. 2:15)

 

[Rico_S]

The thread has turned to an interesting point, an interesting reason why people might not want to follow the Church’s teaching on contraception. There might be a fear, besides the normal reasons, that one is also agreeing to have a lot of kids, either by accident or on purpose.

There is an undercurrent swirling along contraception discussions in the Church that couples should be having a lot of kids. Whether true or not, that is part of the NFP “thing”.

Even though the Church seems to be totally subjective as to reasons to avoid, avoidance is characterized as a “bad thing” you have to have “just reasons” for. You should be out there having babies, babies, babies. Whether official or unofficial, that’s the Church vibe.

It’s easier for people not to deal with those issues and just use ABC.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

The thread has turned to an interesting point, an interesting reason why people might not want to follow the Church’s teaching on contraception. There might be a fear, besides the normal reasons, that one is also agreeing to have a lot of kids, either by accident or on purpose.

There is an undercurrent swirling along contraception discussions in the Church that couples should be having a lot of kids. Whether true or not, that is part of the NFP “thing”.

Even though the Church seems to be totally subjective as to reasons to avoid, avoidance is characterized as a “bad thing” you have to have “just reasons” for. You should be out there having babies, babies, babies. Whether official or unofficial, that’s the Church vibe.

It’s easier for people not to deal with those issues and just use ABC.

I think that is a reason why. But here is the problem with that. Back in the day I worked retail. Many people I worked with were unmarried sexually active and young. They all used birth control and yet the would always get pregnant. Single moms, poverty, or even a poor married couple. They all had one thing in common, they all did not want kids but wanted to have sex. And when abc fails. And it will. If the person feels that they were felt an unfair hand because they were being " responsible" they are more likely to consider abortion. I know 3 people who are pregnant right now. They all were on abc…
Not to mention in my sinful days I cannot tell you how often a condom would break.

 

[kptrs]

One of the areas people can grow in holiness is learning to treat others with charity, rather than assuming that they must be acting selfishly.

So, that’s another area available for moral growth.

Please understand, though, that I am not assuming anyone is acting selfishly. I realize my use of hypothetical direct quotes might lead to that interpretation, but I didn’t mean it judgmentally. I’m just trying to understand things better and concrete examples help me understand. You seem to be saying there are no concrete examples that can answer my particular question, and I understand that now. But please don’t condemn me for being quick to judge others. That’s not what I’m doing at all.

 

[kptrs]

But let’s take annoyance as an example. I’m annoyed at my children a lot because they do annoying things. But I expect that, they’re children, I cope with it well (most of the time ) and my being annoyed isn’t getting in the way of being a good mother. So for me, no, it wouldn’t be sufficient reason (at least not by itself). But if I couldn’t cope well? If the thought of another whiny toddler did nothing but fill me with dread? Seems like a good time to hit pause - which is temporary, by the way. In a few months maybe that phase passes. Maybe I learn some new way of coping or parenting technique that helps me get along with my kids better. So now we can revisit our reasons. Or the situation stays the same and we decide to revisit it again later.

NFP is a constant discernment process. It’s not a one-time decision thing. That’s part of the beauty of it, and what makes it hard.

Thank you, pensmama, this really helped a lot.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

I did answer the initial question in #552 and argue that a person can genuinely have trouble dealing with children, and that that isn’t moral culpability on their part. The list you find objectionable came after a lot of discussion about that. I will quote myself:

“We have an older male relative in our family who can just BARELY stand hosting our two well-behaved school kids for a week/week and a half. He is very sensitive to noise (I’ve had him demonstrate correct door opening protocol to me) and the slightest disorder. He and his wife raised two very widely spaced children. I don’t know if he was less sensitive in his younger years, but knowing what I know of this particular relative, I have a hard time imagining him being a good father to a larger family. He is very good one-on-one with our kids, but not with two. We haven’t gone to visit with all three of our children yet, because we don’t think he could cope with it. There really are people who are neurologically different and who react in unpredictable ways to sensory stimulus that other people barely notice.”

This particular male relative is a very devout Catholic, he loves our children, I’m sure he has never in a million years said that kids (in general) make him nuts and he is theoretically all in favor of large families, but the fact is, that he does a beautiful job with ONE child, but copes noticeably less well when there is more than one child in the house (even very big children). Two big kids is pretty much the outer limit of his ability to cope, and we haven’t even attempted to visit with three. He is especially challenged by small children.

Psychological reasons **are **mentioned in official Church documents as valid reasons, as Longing Soul mentioned. In Humanae Vitae, the list given is “physical, economic, psychological and social conditions.”

That’s pretty darn all-encompassing.

The title of this thread is “Why do most people ignore the Church’s teaching on contraception?”

I actually think that a lot of people who are “good Catholics” are ignoring the Church’s teaching on contraception, given how much a lot of people resist the idea that there are in fact serious reasons.

I think you and I have similarly spaced children. mine are 14, 11 and a soon to be 7 year old.

I know you mentioned your first is on the autism spectrum.

My first has had a huge number of health issues.

And my youngest was a preemie.

There was a time when my poor oldest had pneumonia, and my youngest was immuno suppressed because he was a preemie. My oldest ended up in the hospital, and I couldn’t even visit him because I couldn’t bring the preemie to the hospital, and I could not leave him with anyone. Anyone who stayed with him needed to be trained in infant CPR.

I ended up managing a 15 minute visit, because a relative sat with my kids in the car.

My youngest has spent about 8 months of his life separated from me. Almost 3 months while he was in the NICU, and 5 months while I stayed with my hospitalized son.

So for me 3 has been the magic number.

 

[Xantippe]

The thread has turned to an interesting point, an interesting reason why people might not want to follow the Church’s teaching on contraception. There might be a fear, besides the normal reasons, that one is also agreeing to have a lot of kids, either by accident or on purpose.

There is an undercurrent swirling along contraception discussions in the Church that couples should be having a lot of kids. Whether true or not, that is part of the NFP “thing”.

Even though the Church seems to be totally subjective as to reasons to avoid, avoidance is characterized as a “bad thing” you have to have “just reasons” for. You should be out there having babies, babies, babies. Whether official or unofficial, that’s the Church vibe.

It’s easier for people not to deal with those issues and just use ABC.

That is a very good point.

 

[Xantippe]

Please understand, though, that I am not assuming anyone is acting selfishly. I realize my use of hypothetical direct quotes might lead to that interpretation, but I didn’t mean it judgmentally. I’m just trying to understand things better and concrete examples help me understand. You seem to be saying there are no concrete examples that can answer my particular question, and I understand that now. But please don’t condemn me for being quick to judge others. That’s not what I’m doing at all.

I didn’t get any bad vibe from you.

I do think, though, that talk of “selfishness” in Catholic circles tends to be overblown and misplaced.

I know a lot of 2-4 child families (mostly Protestant). They don’t seem particularly selfish to me.

I also notice that the better I know somebody, the more I know about their problems. I’ve started to realize that if somebody doesn’t seem to have any problems, it’s because I don’t know them very well.

 

[Xantippe]

I think you and I have similarly spaced children. mine are 14, 11 and a soon to be 7 year old.

I know you mentioned your first is on the autism spectrum.

My first has had a huge number of health issues.

And my youngest was a preemie.

There was a time when my poor oldest had pneumonia, and my youngest was immuno suppressed because he was a preemie. My oldest ended up in the hospital, and I couldn’t even visit him because I couldn’t bring the preemie to the hospital, and I could not leave him with anyone. Anyone who stayed with him needed to be trained in infant CPR.

I ended up managing a 15 minute visit, because a relative sat with my kids in the car.

My youngest has spent about 8 months of his life separated from me. Almost 3 months while he was in the NICU, and 5 months while I stayed with my hospitalized son.

So for me 3 has been the magic number.

Poor little guys!

Yeah, my first two are spaced identically to your two oldest (13 and 10) and then there’s a bigger gap down to the youngest (3).

 

[jmjZelie]

Exactly. Normally quippy answers are perfectly reasonable and taken by others without judgement because most people respect the intimate life of a couple as private.

Having experienced a callous judgement myself recently I started to question the value of all my acts. I remember 26 years ago when my first child was stillborn on Christmas Day… I was very aware of how uncomfortable my family and friends were on the first Christmas Day anniversary. I made a commitment to be light and joyful from then on to relieve the discomfort of my family. I hope now, that unlike some on this site who would have deemed that as me being a callous, uncaring mother… that my family would have appreciated my efforts to not milk their sympathy and wallow in my sadness. I did it for the most honourable of reasons but I now know that people who want to judge and condemn will do so no matter what your motive.

I am so very sorry for your loss. How painful that must have been for you, LongingSoul. I think what you did, to alleviate the discomfort of others, is heroic. I am not sure why anyone would think that makes you callous or uncaring. It is quite the opposite in fact!

I have disagreed with a couple of your posts in this thread. But I hope that you do not read any judgement in that, as I had mentioned before. I might disagree with someone, but that does not provoke me to rash judgement. I have often recalled your counsel or opinion in the times of my day to day life where I need to consider what Catholics are called to do. There are many good Catholics here that have helped me as a convert to learn how to think with a Catholic mind. In fact, many of them are participating in this thread!

 

[bitterhope]

I didn’t get any bad vibe from you.

I do think, though, that talk of “selfishness” in Catholic circles tends to be overblown and misplaced.

I know a lot of 2-4 child families (mostly Protestant). They don’t seem particularly selfish to me.

I also notice that the better I know somebody, the more I know about their problems. I’ve started to realize that if somebody doesn’t seem to have any problems, it’s because I don’t know them very well.

You seem to overlook the part where I said that we can only judge ourselves to determine what is selfish and what isn’t. We can not determine for anyone else and we should not try to determine for anyone else. It isn’t our place to examine someone else’s sin.

 

[LongingSoul]

I think you highlight an important point here - the “just reasons” we need to concern ourselves with are our own. Different people can handle different things. If you tend toward scruples, then please discuss your reasons with a priest or spiritual director.

I’ll recommend Simcha Fisher’s book again too as it covers this topic and others: * The%between%* Sinner’s Guide to Natural Family Planning.

Exactly. Excellent resource link as well. These resources should somehow be a sticky post at the top of every NFP thread!

 

[LongingSoul]

Actually, it is exactly what I asked. My wording may have been poor, but that’s what I meant. I don’t go around judging people by what they say. I just tend to understand things better with concrete examples.

I’m frequently confused about the “just reasons” for using NFP. I also tend to have a scrupulous conscience, so I’m frequently asking myself if my reasons for using NFP are legitimate or not. The quotes I provided were general and hypothetical. I really am just trying to learn. I’m well-aware that only God can judge others; I am by no means trying to judge anyone. Just trying to improve my own self.

Thank you, bitterhope, for your beautiful post.

NFP by its very nature disposes people to its just use. People that strive for a chaste life and chaste marriage by using NFP should rightly be praised and valued for their witness just by that fact alone and their choices to space or even permanently avoid after a few children should never be subject to judgement by anyone else at all. If you suffer from scruples yourself it is wise to discern with a Priest as pensmama suggested.

Fr Richard Hogan of NFP Outreach makes a lovely observation from his experience …

With the increased use of NFP in recent decades the Church has discovered that the informed practice of NFP actually builds virtue. In other words, couples who have used NFP become unselfish by using NFP properly. Thus, the Church has learned that if authentic virtue is weak or absent at the beginning, using NFP properly instills it! Love is a choice in one’s will to give oneself to another. But that choice is founded on the recognition of the dignity of the other as well as the dignity of oneself (who would give oneself to another if one thought the gift worthless?). Therefore, anything which leads to a greater appreciation of the dignity and value of human beings fosters love.

The human body is the expression or manifestation of the human person. John Paul II speaks of the body as revealing the person and when we express God-like acts through the body, the body is actually a physical image of God. Pope John Paul II goes so far as to say that the human body speaks a language. (Theology of the Body series, as well as Familiaris Consortio.) Since we are created to act as God acts, and He LOVES, we are created to love as He does. Since we have bodies, and we express our acts in and through our bodies, God gave us a means of expressing love physically. Since true, authentic love is THE most God-like act possible for human beings (because it is the most God-like act), and since the body has the possibility of expressing this love, the study of those powers of the body through which we can express an intimate self-giving love will reveal more about the person and even about God than the study of other aspects of the human body.

NFP is the study and knowledge of the bodily powers through which we bodily express conjugal love. NFP, therefore, reveals the dignity of both spouses to one another. In revealing this awesome dignity, it fosters love as well as a deep and abiding respect in each spouse for himself or herself and for the other. It also builds an unbelievable longing to share the infinite goods of human life with others, i.e., with children. NFP then builds a respect for human life. With this respect in place through the use of NFP, any decision by a couple to try to achieve a pregnancy or to avoid will be made for a good reason. It is not that serious reasons are not necessary—they are. But, a couple practicing NFP after taking the classes and knowing the method, practicing their faith attending Church and receiving the sacraments, with an active prayer life, and conscientious about the religious education of their children, will, if they decide to avoid a pregnancy, have serious reasons. This is what was meant by saying that virtue results from using NFP. It should also be noted that NFP couples generally discuss whether or not to try to achieve a pregnancy every single month. This re-examination also builds a respect for life.

Pastors routinely try to persuade engaged couples to use NFP after they are married. Most engaged couples, however, will tell the priest that they want to avoid a pregnancy, at least for awhile. Pastors are very pleased if they are able to convince the couple to use NFP. As the experience of the last twenty or thirty years shows, NFP helps build marriages with authentic love. What happens is that the general attitude of these couples to avoid a pregnancy is contradicted by the specific attitude of each marital act which is open to life. Eventually the specific attitude changes the general attitude and couples often surprise themselves by giving life to more children than they ever thought possible.

Answered by Fr. Richard Hogan, NFP Outreach

Our lives are for growth in holiness and that should be through a daily exercise in self examination… not by comparing yourself favourably to those you deem to be more selfish by the superficial appearance of their life.

 

[LongingSoul]

One of the areas people can grow in holiness is learning to treat others with charity, rather than assuming that they must be acting selfishly.

So, that’s another area available for moral growth.

 

[Xantippe]

You seem to overlook the part where I said that we can only judge ourselves to determine what is selfish and what isn’t. We can not determine for anyone else and we should not try to determine for anyone else. It isn’t our place to examine someone else’s sin.

Yes. There is, though, a lot of talk of “selfishness.”

 

[LongingSoul]

I am so very sorry for your loss. How painful that must have been for you, LongingSoul. I think what you did, to alleviate the discomfort of others, is heroic. I am not sure why anyone would think that makes you callous or uncaring. It is quite the opposite in fact!

I have disagreed with a couple of your posts in this thread. But I hope that you do not read any judgement in that, as I had mentioned before. I might disagree with someone, but that does not provoke me to rash judgement. I have often recalled your counsel or opinion in the times of my day to day life where I need to consider what Catholics are called to do. There are many good Catholics here that have helped me as a convert to learn how to think with a Catholic mind. In fact, many of them are participating in this thread!

Thankyou. There are many, many heroic people out there enduring the harshness of life. I’ve been blessed with opportunities to be with others who look for all the world like happy, successful Catholic families… but are so despite their struggles and misfortunes. It is very humbling to be able to behold a person without judgement of them. Assuming the best in them rather than the worst for the purpose of esteeming oneself. It sounds like a well worn throw away Bible passage but contemplating it is of great benefit to a hardened heart. “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." Matt 7-2

I despair when I see conversations about NFP galvanised into the pro contraception crowd aligning with the ‘anti NFP unless you’re on your deathbed’ crowd… against the foot soldier Catholic trudging the hard road of authentic Church teaching.