Why do most people ignore the Church's teaching on contraception?

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Thorolfr said:
Perhaps God killed Onan because he was in effect raping his brother’s wife with no intention of helping her father a child. But it seems difficult to me to find a blanket condemnation of contraception or masturbation in all circumstances from this particular story alone.
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They were married. You deem contracepted sex to be rape? Novel - but does suggest contraception is evil.
 
LongingSoul said:
But you’re a Lutheran :confused:
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There are many things about Luther that I admire, but I certainly don’t agree with everything he said, wrote or did. For example, according to the Lutheran scholar Eric Gritsch, *Martin Luther’s Anti-Semitism: Against His Better Judgement *(Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 2012), p. ix:
In 1543, three years before his death, Luther wrote a treatise titled “On the Jews and Their Lies,” urging secular rulers to execute a sevenfold program regarding Jews: (1) burning all synagogues and schools; (2) razing all private homes and properties; (3) confiscating religious writings; (4) prohibiting the teaching by rabbis on pain of loss of life; (5) no safe conduct on highways; (6) no money trading to avoid usury; and (7) labor camps for young Jews. “We are at fault in not slaying them,” he fumed. He called on pastors to cooperate and, in addition to prohibit Jews “on pain of death to praise God, to give thanks, to pray, and to teach publicly, [and] to utter the name of God within our hearing.”
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Now I might be Lutheran, but I don’t agree with Luther on how Jews should be treated. I also don’t agree with his interpretation of the Bible passage about Onan. But that’s only my opinion. 🤷
 
Thorolfr #886
Now I might be Lutheran, but I don’t agree with Luther on how Jews should be treated. I also don’t agree with his interpretation of the Bible passage about Onan. But that’s only my opinion.
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You have identified precisely why no Protestant sect can be trusted to offer all of Christ’s truths – self-opinionated private opinion, even against the Sacred Scriptures when it suits, which has been changed to suit whims and fancies as so well documented.
 
Xantippe said:
It’s the combination of withdrawal and seeming to go through with levirate marriage but not really that makes it really bad.

Compare the story in the NT of the couple who seemed to be donating all of the proceeds from the sale of a property, but actually held a lot back and were both struck dead.

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+5

In both cases, the good deed (the donation or the marriage) was optional, but the perpetrators sought to enjoy the appearance of having done the good deed, without actually doing it.
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Ah, very good connection.
 
Xantippe said:
It’s the combination of withdrawal and seeming to go through with levirate marriage but not really that makes it really bad.

Compare the story in the NT of the couple who seemed to be donating all of the proceeds from the sale of a property, but actually held a lot back and were both struck dead.

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+5

In both cases, the good deed (the donation or the marriage) was optional, but the perpetrators sought to enjoy the appearance of having done the good deed, without actually doing it.
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The “holding back”- in the marriage context - is the nub of contraception.
 
Abu said:
There is nothing ambiguous about Onan’s action as realised by the Magisterium and the doyens of Catholicism.

“In the fourth century St. Augustine wrote, "Relations with one’s wife when conception is deliberately prevented are as unlawful and impure as the conduct of Onan who was slain.” St. Thomas Aquinas, in the thirteenth century, taught clearly the constant doctrine of the Christian religion that birth-control is a grave sin. He writes, “Next to murder, by which an actually existent human being is destroyed, we rank this sin by which the generation of a human being is prevented.” Contra Gent., Bk. III., c. 122. It is not a new law by any means."
radioreplies.info/radio-r…ol-1.php?t=111
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The thing is, though, when quoting from condemnations in the early centuries, it is vital to remember that until astonishingly recently (the 1830’s I believe) it was believed that the sperm contained all that was needed to produce a child. The womb was just a shelter. The role of the woman in providing an egg for the seed to fertilise was not realised.

So, with that belief, naturally the concept of little potential babies (‘humunculi’) being spilled and in effect, murdered, was profoundly shocking and obviously wrong to those who held that belief.
 
paperwight66 said:
The thing is, though, when quoting from condemnations in the early centuries, it is vital to remember that until astonishingly recently (the 1830’s I believe) it was believed that the sperm contained all that was needed to produce a child. The womb was just a shelter. The role of the woman in providing an egg for the seed to fertilise was not realised.

So, with that belief, naturally the concept of little potential babies (‘humunculi’) being spilled and in effect, murdered, was profoundly shocking and obviously wrong to those who held that belief.
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I believe God probably knew the nature of sperm at the time of Onan.
 
paperwight66 #890
The thing is, though, when quoting from condemnations in the early centuries, it is vital to remember that until astonishingly recently (the 1830’s I believe) it was believed that the sperm contained all that was needed to produce a child. The womb was just a shelter. The role of the woman in providing an egg for the seed to fertilise was not realised.
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So, with that belief, naturally the concept of little potential babies (‘humunculi’) being spilled and in effect, murdered, was profoundly shocking and obviously wrong to those who held that belief.
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Which does not alter the fact that Onan was killed by God for his unnatural act as Pope Pius XI has taught, and contraception condemned by St Augustine as equally evil.
 
Well this thread has run it’s course but I want to leave one final thought. It has always been my belief that when people come here and share their experiences it is usually with the hope that someone reading might find something helpful in those experiences and not with the intention of saying or implying that their experience is somehow better–and when we impute the second intention to them we diminish both them and ourselves.

We all have different experiences – when I offer mine or my view or the questions that come to mind from someone else’s experiences it is often because they run counter to the prevailing Ideas on a thread and it is my hope that maybe my experience or outlook may help someone.

I know that I can find the stories of those who have large families–who have been open to Gods gifts (and this is not to imply that those with small families have not–we all know many who while open have, for whatever reason, not been blessed in that particular way)–inspiring and thought provoking–they make me look at my life and ask were we as open to life as we should have been or did I hold back for less than truly serious reasons? I don’t think it’s a bad question to ask myself (though I know some will disagree). If our reasons were not serious enough I need to confess and it’s not too late for me to ask are there other areas of my life where I might be holding back–where my trust in God is not what it should be? Are there changes I need to make? I don’t read their posts as saying they are somehow better or their experience is better–it’s simply them telling me their experience and what it has done for and meant to them. I look at it to see if God is trying to tell me anything through it.

Those with no family or a small family have had other experiences and challenges–those experiences can also teach us something and cause us to ask questions. Neither experience is necessarily better–they are just different and they will speak to different people depending where they are at that particular moment in life. God has a plan for each of us–it is our job to discern that plan. We all need to build up the body of Christ not tear it down and to the extent that any of my posts failed to build it up and instead tore it down–I apologize to all reading.

The peace of Christ,
Mark
 
For twenty years I faithfully followed NFP. I have only engaged in sexual intercourse with one man - my husband. However, I practiced NFP obsessively because I was trying to earn the right to take up space in this world. Deep down my motivation for practicing NFP was sinful and based in shame. I thought that if I practiced NFP perfectly, I would be acceptable to God. I had no concept of God’s mercy in my life.

I was sexually abused as a child by my MOTHER. My mother was extremely intelligent and a perfectionist. My mother was also paranoid schizophrenic. I learned from my mother that if “I took a taste of heaven I would go to hell.” My mother called me terrible sexual names all my life. I repeatedly tried to bond with my mother, and she would reject me harshly and abusively.

I called myself awful sexual names whenever I engaged in sexual intercourse with my husband. I confessed this to my priest. My celibate priest exploited this vulnerability and tried to take advantage of me sexually. He encouraged NFP and wanted to know all about my sexual life with my husband. He was a sexual voyeur. I continued to reject my priest’s sexual advances for several years just like I avoided sexual intercourse with my husband unless we were seeking pregnancy. I tolerated this sexual abuse by clergy because that’s who my mother told me I was - a seductress. I could not see that my priest was abusing his power over me for his own selfish desires.

I now believe that it is wrong for young women to be repeatedly put in a situation to share their sexual lives with their priests. NFP makes Catholic women vulnerable to sexual abuse by celibate clergy. My priest preyed on young married women who could not faithfully follow NFP.

I had several miscarriages for my forth child. Eventually, I realized that my loving God did not want me to be my priest’s sexual fantasy nor did my loving God want me to suffer repeated miscarriages. My God wanted me to raise the children I had without suffering repeatedly with depression. I went to graduate school to study theology. I received counseling from a Protestant counselor who specialized in treating victims of sexual abuse. My husband and I met with a new priest and we were told that there was nothing wrong with me using birth control. We were told that the mortal sin in using birth control was choosing to never be open to having children - we already had three children and five or more miscarriages. My Catholic priest encouraged me to continue healing from my past of sexual abuse. He did not want to hear me confess any failures related to practicing NFP. He wanted me to experience love and connection with my husband free from fear. He said that we were free to use birth control under the condition that if I conceived I promised not to abort the baby.

The shame and condemnation from other Catholic women kept me in perpetual suffering. The teachings on NFP in the Catholic Church repeatedly abused me just like my mother. I was traumatically bonded to my husband, my church, and my priest. Each time I felt emotionally connected to any of these entities - I heard my mother’s voice condemning me with derogatory sexual names for being emotionally attached and experiencing love. I thought every loving emotional feeling was lust.

NFP is not the be all end all for everyone. Many women are sexually abused as children and NFP does not help in healing from sexual abuse. Please, do not perpetuate this abuse on other women. God made us man and woman and he said that his creation was good (Genesis 2:18). I hope Catholics will think before they condemn.
 
chaplainmom said:
For twenty years I faithfully followed NFP. I have only engaged in sexual intercourse with one man - my husband. However, I practiced NFP obsessively because I was trying to earn the right to take up space in this world. Deep down my motivation for practicing NFP was sinful and based in shame. I thought that if I practiced NFP perfectly, I would be acceptable to God. I had no concept of God’s mercy in my life.

I was sexually abused as a child by my MOTHER. My mother was extremely intelligent and a perfectionist. My mother was also paranoid schizophrenic. I learned from my mother that if “I took a taste of heaven I would go to hell.” My mother called me terrible sexual names all my life. I repeatedly tried to bond with my mother, and she would reject me harshly and abusively.

I called myself awful sexual names whenever I engaged in sexual intercourse with my husband. I confessed this to my priest. My celibate priest exploited this vulnerability and tried to take advantage of me sexually. He encouraged NFP and wanted to know all about my sexual life with my husband. He was a sexual voyeur. I continued to reject my priest’s sexual advances for several years just like I avoided sexual intercourse with my husband unless we were seeking pregnancy. I tolerated this sexual abuse by clergy because that’s who my mother told me I was - a seductress. I could not see that my priest was abusing his power over me for his own selfish desires.

I now believe that it is wrong for young women to be repeatedly put in a situation to share their sexual lives with their priests. NFP makes Catholic women vulnerable to sexual abuse by celibate clergy. My priest preyed on young married women who could not faithfully follow NFP.

I had several miscarriages for my forth child. Eventually, I realized that my loving God did not want me to be my priest’s sexual fantasy nor did my loving God want me to suffer repeated miscarriages. My God wanted me to raise the children I had without suffering repeatedly with depression. I went to graduate school to study theology. I received counseling from a Protestant counselor who specialized in treating victims of sexual abuse. My husband and I met with a new priest and we were told that there was nothing wrong with me using birth control. We were told that the mortal sin in using birth control was choosing to never be open to having children - we already had three children and five or more miscarriages. My Catholic priest encouraged me to continue healing from my past of sexual abuse. He did not want to hear me confess any failures related to practicing NFP. He wanted me to experience love and connection with my husband free from fear. He said that we were free to use birth control under the condition that if I conceived I promised not to abort the baby.

The shame and condemnation from other Catholic women kept me in perpetual suffering. The teachings on NFP in the Catholic Church repeatedly abused me just like my mother. I was traumatically bonded to my husband, my church, and my priest. Each time I felt emotionally connected to any of these entities - I heard my mother’s voice condemning me with derogatory sexual names for being emotionally attached and experiencing love. I thought every loving emotional feeling was lust.

NFP is not the be all end all for everyone. Many women are sexually abused as children and NFP does not help in healing from sexual abuse. Please, do not perpetuate this abuse on other women. God made us man and woman and he said that his creation was good (Genesis 2:18). I hope Catholics will think before they condemn.
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I’m sorry to hear of your tragic past. But where does anyone advocate nfp as an aid in healing sexual abuse? :confused:

You have had a horrible experience with priests- the one who reveled in your sexual details and also the one who told you that the pill is not sinful. Both priests were dead wrong.
 
chaplainmom said:
For twenty years I faithfully followed NFP. I have only engaged in sexual intercourse with one man - my husband. However, I practiced NFP obsessively because I was trying to earn the right to take up space in this world. Deep down my motivation for practicing NFP was sinful and based in shame. I thought that if I practiced NFP perfectly, I would be acceptable to God. I had no concept of God’s mercy in my life.

I was sexually abused as a child by my MOTHER. My mother was extremely intelligent and a perfectionist. My mother was also paranoid schizophrenic. I learned from my mother that if “I took a taste of heaven I would go to hell.” My mother called me terrible sexual names all my life. I repeatedly tried to bond with my mother, and she would reject me harshly and abusively.

I called myself awful sexual names whenever I engaged in sexual intercourse with my husband. I confessed this to my priest. My celibate priest exploited this vulnerability and tried to take advantage of me sexually. He encouraged NFP and wanted to know all about my sexual life with my husband. He was a sexual voyeur. I continued to reject my priest’s sexual advances for several years just like I avoided sexual intercourse with my husband unless we were seeking pregnancy. I tolerated this sexual abuse by clergy because that’s who my mother told me I was - a seductress. I could not see that my priest was abusing his power over me for his own selfish desires.

I now believe that it is wrong for young women to be repeatedly put in a situation to share their sexual lives with their priests. NFP makes Catholic women vulnerable to sexual abuse by celibate clergy. My priest preyed on young married women who could not faithfully follow NFP.

I had several miscarriages for my forth child. Eventually, I realized that my loving God did not want me to be my priest’s sexual fantasy nor did my loving God want me to suffer repeated miscarriages. My God wanted me to raise the children I had without suffering repeatedly with depression. I went to graduate school to study theology. I received counseling from a Protestant counselor who specialized in treating victims of sexual abuse. My husband and I met with a new priest and we were told that there was nothing wrong with me using birth control. We were told that the mortal sin in using birth control was choosing to never be open to having children - we already had three children and five or more miscarriages. My Catholic priest encouraged me to continue healing from my past of sexual abuse. He did not want to hear me confess any failures related to practicing NFP. He wanted me to experience love and connection with my husband free from fear. He said that we were free to use birth control under the condition that if I conceived I promised not to abort the baby.

The shame and condemnation from other Catholic women kept me in perpetual suffering. The teachings on NFP in the Catholic Church repeatedly abused me just like my mother. I was traumatically bonded to my husband, my church, and my priest. Each time I felt emotionally connected to any of these entities - I heard my mother’s voice condemning me with derogatory sexual names for being emotionally attached and experiencing love. I thought every loving emotional feeling was lust.

NFP is not the be all end all for everyone. Many women are sexually abused as children and NFP does not help in healing from sexual abuse. Please, do not perpetuate this abuse on other women. God made us man and woman and he said that his creation was good (Genesis 2:18). I hope Catholics will think before they condemn.
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I have done NFP for 17 years and have literally never discussed NFP with a priest, let alone details that would be interesting to a voyeur.

It just hasn’t been necessary.
 
MarkInOregon said:
I know that I can find the stories of those who have large families–who have been open to Gods gifts (and this is not to imply that those with small families have not–we all know many who while open have, for whatever reason, not been blessed in that particular way)–inspiring and thought provoking–they make me look at my life and ask were we as open to life as we should have been or did I hold back for less than truly serious reasons? I don’t think it’s a bad question to ask myself (though I know some will disagree). If our reasons were not serious enough I need to confess and it’s not too late for me to ask are there other areas of my life where I might be holding back–where my trust in God is not what it should be? Are there changes I need to make? I don’t read their posts as saying they are somehow better or their experience is better–it’s simply them telling me their experience and what it has done for and meant to them. I look at it to see if God is trying to tell me anything through it.
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Here are some other questions for personal reflection:
  1. Am I neglecting my children physically, academically, psychologically, emotionally, or spiritually?
  2. Am I doing an adequate job of developing the gifts that God has given my child?
  3. Do my children know that I love them and that they are worthy of love?
  4. Do my children have a decent relationship with both of their parents and each other?
  5. Am I strengthening my relationships with my older children in an age-appropriate way, or am I accidentally giving them the impression that I primarily value them as a source of labor? Have conflicts over chores or other issues destroyed our relationship? Am I making positive investments in my relationships with my older children, or am I just making “withdrawals” from the relationship?
  6. If my child has a problem or worry, do they feel safe coming to me?
  7. Am I making adequate provision for my child’s future adulthood?
  8. Is my child (if non-disabled) going to be able to live a normal independent adult life? What do I need to do to make that happen?
Those are important questions for reflection, too.
 
chaplainmom said:
For twenty years I faithfully followed NFP. I have only engaged in sexual intercourse with one man - my husband. However, I practiced NFP obsessively because I was trying to earn the right to take up space in this world. Deep down my motivation for practicing NFP was sinful and based in shame. I thought that if I practiced NFP perfectly, I would be acceptable to God. I had no concept of God’s mercy in my life.

I was sexually abused as a child by my MOTHER. My mother was extremely intelligent and a perfectionist. My mother was also paranoid schizophrenic. I learned from my mother that if “I took a taste of heaven I would go to hell.” My mother called me terrible sexual names all my life. I repeatedly tried to bond with my mother, and she would reject me harshly and abusively.

I called myself awful sexual names whenever I engaged in sexual intercourse with my husband. I confessed this to my priest. My celibate priest exploited this vulnerability and tried to take advantage of me sexually. He encouraged NFP and wanted to know all about my sexual life with my husband. He was a sexual voyeur. I continued to reject my priest’s sexual advances for several years just like I avoided sexual intercourse with my husband unless we were seeking pregnancy. I tolerated this sexual abuse by clergy because that’s who my mother told me I was - a seductress. I could not see that my priest was abusing his power over me for his own selfish desires.

I now believe that it is wrong for young women to be repeatedly put in a situation to share their sexual lives with their priests. NFP makes Catholic women vulnerable to sexual abuse by celibate clergy. My priest preyed on young married women who could not faithfully follow NFP.

I had several miscarriages for my forth child. Eventually, I realized that my loving God did not want me to be my priest’s sexual fantasy nor did my loving God want me to suffer repeated miscarriages. My God wanted me to raise the children I had without suffering repeatedly with depression. I went to graduate school to study theology. I received counseling from a Protestant counselor who specialized in treating victims of sexual abuse. My husband and I met with a new priest and we were told that there was nothing wrong with me using birth control. We were told that the mortal sin in using birth control was choosing to never be open to having children - we already had three children and five or more miscarriages. My Catholic priest encouraged me to continue healing from my past of sexual abuse. He did not want to hear me confess any failures related to practicing NFP. He wanted me to experience love and connection with my husband free from fear. He said that we were free to use birth control under the condition that if I conceived I promised not to abort the baby.

The shame and condemnation from other Catholic women kept me in perpetual suffering. The teachings on NFP in the Catholic Church repeatedly abused me just like my mother. I was traumatically bonded to my husband, my church, and my priest. Each time I felt emotionally connected to any of these entities - I heard my mother’s voice condemning me with derogatory sexual names for being emotionally attached and experiencing love. I thought every loving emotional feeling was lust.

NFP is not the be all end all for everyone. Many women are sexually abused as children and NFP does not help in healing from sexual abuse. Please, do not perpetuate this abuse on other women. God made us man and woman and he said that his creation was good (Genesis 2:18). I hope Catholics will think before they condemn.
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Can I ask if you were taught the principles of NFP by a qualified NFP instructor?
 
Chaplainmom,

I’m sorry for your experiences. I can’t begin to imagine the pain you’ve gone through. Your experience is valid and you are too precious to God to be made to feel guilty for things beyond your control. I apologize for not having any words of comfort or advice. You have my prayers and admiration for being strong enough to post this here. Unfortunately on CAF anyone who has had a negative experience with NFP is quickly discredited or at least the attempt will be made. There are many more people with negative experiences who can not or will not share them here. You are not abnormal. You deserve to know that.
 
Xantippe said:
Here are some other questions for personal reflection:
  1. Am I neglecting my children physically, academically, psychologically, emotionally, or spiritually?
  2. Am I doing an adequate job of developing the gifts that God has given my child?
  3. Do my children know that I love them and that they are worthy of love?
  4. Do my children have a decent relationship with both of their parents and each other?
  5. Am I strengthening my relationships with my older children in an age-appropriate way, or am I accidentally giving them the impression that I primarily value them as a source of labor? Have conflicts over chores or other issues destroyed our relationship? Am I making positive investments in my relationships with my older children, or am I just making “withdrawals” from the relationship?
  6. If my child has a problem or worry, do they feel safe coming to me?
  7. Am I making adequate provision for my child’s future adulthood?
  8. Is my child (if non-disabled) going to be able to live a normal independent adult life? What do I need to do to make that happen?
Those are important questions for reflection, too.
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Yes, they are. Your questions for reflection are good questions–but I think they are a subset of questions that are embedded in the larger question I asked regarding my wife and I: “were we as open to life as we should have been or did we hold back for less than serious reasons?” To answer the larger question I asked requires asking many smaller questions such as the questions you pose and others–and those questions will be different for each of us depending on our experience and where we are in life. I guess I see it as when we ask the larger question–then we are better able to ask all the appropriate smaller questions that will help us answer that larger question–otherwise answering the smaller questions might not lead us anywhere or may lead us somewhere we didn’t want to go.

The peace of Christ,
Mark
 
MarkInOregon said:
We all have different experiences – when I offer mine or my view or the questions that come to mind from someone else’s experiences it is often because they run counter to the prevailing Ideas on a thread and it is my hope that maybe my experience or outlook may help someone.

I know that I can find the stories of those who have large families–who have been open to Gods gifts (and this is not to imply that those with small families have not–we all know many who while open have, for whatever reason, not been blessed in that particular way)–inspiring and thought provoking–they make me look at my life and ask were we as open to life as we should have been or did I hold back for less than truly serious reasons? I don’t think it’s a bad question to ask myself (though I know some will disagree). If our reasons were not serious enough I need to confess and it’s not too late for me to ask are there other areas of my life where I might be holding back–where my trust in God is not what it should be? Are there changes I need to make? I don’t read their posts as saying they are somehow better or their experience is better–it’s simply them telling me their experience and what it has done for and meant to them. I look at it to see if God is trying to tell me anything through it.
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My experience of conscience examination is that it is an honest dialogue with oneself in the presence of God. I’m moved by homilies and spiritual reading and the witness of the Saints. Perhaps when I was younger I did tend to put a greater emphasis on the look of other lives or on their testimonies about themselves… but these days having been privy to the lives of others when they are at their most vulnerable and broken… I’m no longer moved by appearances and personal testimonies. We should never compare ourselves to others to either feel less or more. There is far too much that isn’t available to us about their experience and lives to make such analysis. As you develop in holiness, you become more sensitive to what is holy and what is base or a lie and feel less of the urge to promote yourself and condemn others. That’s when “as you judge, so ye shall be judged” begins to excerpt its graveness for you.
 
MarkInOregon said:
Yes, they are. Your questions for reflection are good questions–but I think they are a subset of questions that are embedded in the larger question I asked regarding my wife and I: “were we as open to life as we should have been or did we hold back for less than serious reasons?” To answer the larger question I asked requires asking many smaller questions such as the questions you pose and others–and those questions will be different for each of us depending on our experience and where we are in life. I guess I see it as when we ask the larger question–then we are better able to ask all the appropriate smaller questions that will help us answer that larger question–otherwise answering the smaller questions might not lead us anywhere or may lead us somewhere we didn’t want to go.

The peace of Christ,
Mark
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If you really do feel guilty about not having enough children to satisfy your Catholic duty, I would recommend taking that to confession. I think it would really benefit you to have a Priest (name removed by moderator)ut into this issue.
 
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