Why do most people ignore the Church's teaching on contraception?

  • Thread starter Thread starter loumeland
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
ALoveDivine said:
Is it any wonder that the ranks of protestant churches are swelling up? The Catholic Church seems to think it a horrible thing for anyone to ever think for themselves. Its quite exhausting being told that my God-given reason means nothing if I happen to disagree with a minority celibate male hierarchy.

Threads like this, ladies and gentlemen, is why loads of people are leaving the church.
Click to expand...
And let’s look at what has happened to the “loads” of people who have left the Catholic Church over the past 2,000 years. They follow any and every false doctrine out there, including those of a secular society. God is left farther and farther behind. Soon He will no longer be a part of our lives. Is that what we want for ourselves and our children and future generations? A total secular, Godless society?? Jesus Christ understands our fallen human nature and HE gave us HIS Catholic Church to guide us on our Journey thru this life. Where else do you find a Church that is over 2,000 years old that still guards and teaches all the TRUTHS that Jesus taught? Still has all the Seven Sacraments to bring us God’s Sacramental Grace to strengthen us. We have the promise of Jesus that the “Gates of Hell” will NEVER prevail against His Catholic Church. And the example of all the beautiful Saints and Martyrs to inspire us. Jesus knows what we need, let’s TRUST Him. It may not be easy, but it is certainly worth doing HIS Will. God Bless, Memaw
 
If people want to see abortion decrease, you must encourage contraception, as well as abstinence. Ideally, in a perfect world, people who don’t want kids would abstain, but we live in a world where people don’t resist their passions. Pulling out and nfp are not effective methods. The concern with wasting seed is a Jewish legal concern. Of people want to be consistent and avoid pork and mixed garments, be my guest. Christian sexual ethics encourage the use of birth control, where appropriate. The Vatican’s position on this leads souls away from Christ and His Church.
 
jschwartz said:
If people want to see abortion decrease, you must encourage contraception, as well as abstinence. Ideally, in a perfect world, people who don’t want kids would abstain, but we live in a world where people don’t resist their passions. Pulling out and nfp are not effective methods. The concern with wasting seed is a Jewish legal concern. Of people want to be consistent and avoid pork and mixed garments, be my guest. Christian sexual ethics encourage the use of birth control, where appropriate. The Vatican’s position on this leads souls away from Christ and His Church.
Click to expand...
Contraception is what got us here in the first place, my friend.
 
whm said:
It is church law that catholics must marry in the church. It is a law that could be changed and nobody disputes that. Catholics get dispensations all the time to get married outside the church. Converts who enter the church (married before entering the church) are usually considered valid as well.

Also deacons can do marriages as well.
Click to expand...
Thank you Deacon, It would really be nice if we all knew our faith as we should before we criticize the Church. We forget that Christ raised marriage to be a Sacrament. God Bless, Memaw
 
Abu said:
The reality is that neither dogma nor infallible doctrine may be questioned and non-infallible doctrine requires intellectual assent (“loyal submission of the will and intellect”, Vatican II, Lumen Gentium 25), not an assent of faith. (See post #175)
Click to expand...
Yeah, funny about that.

I agree that the Catholic Church is the Church that Christ instituted. I agree with the red-letter words that the Church has the right the bind things here.

I think it’s just really convenient for the Church (which is really the clergy) to declare that everything they say is true and must be followed without question. :rolleyes:
 
PaulinVA said:
Yeah, funny about that.

I agree that the Catholic Church is the Church that Christ instituted. I agree with the red-letter words that the Church has the right the bind things here.

I think it’s just really convenient for the Church (which is really the clergy) to declare that everything they say is true and must be followed without question. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Rather contradictory statements don’t you think? The Church is not the clergy, the Church is the teachings of Jesus Christ and the clergy are her servants. To many "cafeteria " Catholics would love to run the Catholic church, That’ll never happen! God Bless, Memaw
 
Memaw said:
Rather contradictory statements don’t you think? The Church is not the clergy, the Church is the teachings of Jesus Christ and the clergy are her servants. To many "cafeteria " Catholics would love to run the Catholic church, That’ll never happen! God Bless, Memaw
Click to expand...
You are absolutely right. The only people who “run” the Church are ordained.
 
Memaw said:
Thank you Deacon, It would really be nice if we all knew our faith as we should before we criticize the Church. We forget that Christ raised marriage to be a Sacrament. God Bless, Memaw
Click to expand...
Oops, I am not a deacon.
 
Rau said:
Catholics should anticipate the Magisterium will teach in error, and then point this out. That’s our duty is it? 🤷
Click to expand...
Twist words much?

Catholics have a duty to seek the Truth and point out when they perceive error. How else does the Church move forward?
 
TMC said:
Twist words much?

Catholics have a duty to seek the Truth and point out when they perceive error. How else does the Church move forward?
Click to expand...
She teaches under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. In this we don’t find error.
 
Rau said:
She teaches under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. In this we don’t find error.
Click to expand...
We hope for perfection, but cannot attain it. The possibility of error is confirmed by the history of the Church. If we presume that we have perfect knowledge of God (which is unattainable) then we cannot move toward closer unity with Him. To presume that one knows the mind of God is the definition of hubris. The Church is working to move closer to perfect Truth. As the Pope said recently, to refuse to consider the need to move forward is an obstinate form of idolatry.
 
PaulinVA #1084
I think it’s just really convenient for the Church (which is really the clergy) to declare that everything they say is true and must be followed without question.
Click to expand...
No real Catholic imagines that “the Church (which is really the clergy)”, and believes "that everything they say is true and must be followed without question”; only dissenters fantasise in this way. So convenient!

The real People of God are: ‘The “People of God, guided by the sacred teaching authority (magisterium), and obeying it, receives not the mere word of men, but truly the word of God (cf. 1 Th. 2:13), the faith once for all delivered to the saints (cf. Jude 3). The People unfailingly adheres to this faith, penetrates it more deeply with right judgment, and applies it more fully in daily life.” ’ [Vatican II, *Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, Lumen Gentium, 12].

CCC 837 “Fully incorporated into the society of the Church are those who, possessing the Spirit of Christ, accept all the means of salvation given to the Church together with her entire organization, and who - by the bonds constituted by the profession of faith, the sacraments, ecclesiastical government, and communion - are joined in the visible structure of the Church of Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. Even though incorporated into the Church, one who does not however persevere in charity is not saved. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but ‘in body’ not ‘in heart.’” 321
Note: 321 LG 14.

So the dissenter picks and choses what to believe against the Christ who warned: “if he refuses to hear even the Church let him be like the heathen and a publican.” (Mt 18:17).
 
TMC said:
We hope for perfection, but cannot attain it. The possibility of error is confirmed by the history of the Church. If we presume that we have perfect knowledge of God (which is unattainable) then we cannot move toward closer unity with Him. To presume that one knows the mind of God is the definition of hubris. The Church is working to move closer to perfect Truth. As the Pope said recently, to refuse to consider the need to move forward is an obstinate form of idolatry.
Click to expand...
Attaining perfect knowledge is one thing. However, as history confirms, the Church does not teach moral error.
 
Abu said:
No real Catholic imagines that “the Church (which is really the clergy)”, and believes "that everything they say is true and must be followed without question”; only dissenters fantasise in this way. So convenient!
Click to expand...
Well, no matter how rude you are, or how many ad hominem attacks you write, that doesn’t change the truth. The truth is, I am not a dissenter. The truth is, the clergy run the Church.

The truth is, 1 Th 2:13 says “And for this reason we too give thanks to God unceasingly, that, in receiving the word of God from hearing us, you received not a human word but, as it truly is, the word of God, which is now at work in you who believe.” No mention of the Church. No mention of the Magisterium.

The truth is, MT 18:17 says “If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church.* If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.”

AND the USCCB, in it’s notes, says this at MT 18:17: [18:17] The church: the second of the only two instances of this word in the gospels; see note on Mt 16:18. Here it refers not to the entire church of Jesus, as in Mt 16:18, but to the local congregation. Treat him…a Gentile or a tax collector: just as the observant Jew avoided the company of Gentiles and tax collectors, so must the congregation of Christian disciples separate itself from the arrogantly sinful member who refuses to repent even when convicted of his sin by the whole church. Such a one is to be set outside the fellowship of the community.

I don’t know why you quoted this. I mentioned before to you that this doesn’t apply to the situations you think it does.
 
TMC said:
The why has the Church changed some of its teachings? Did Truth change?
Click to expand...
Plse provide links to the old and the new teaching, where the the former was an error in faith or morals. But do this in a new thread.
 
Rau said:
Attaining perfect knowledge is one thing. However, as history confirms, the Church does not teach moral error.
Click to expand...
The “Church” doesn’t teach moral error you claim but some of its greatest teachers surely have. I’m not sure what the distinction is. St. Augustine, a Doctor of the Church and one of its greatest teachers, wrote that it is sometimes appropriate to whip your slaves, but that is surely a moral error. So how would a Catholic in the past before he could refer to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, have known that what St. Augustine said was not an authoritative teaching of the Church?
 
Thorolfr said:
The “Church” doesn’t teach moral error you claim but some of its greatest teachers surely have. I’m not sure what the distinction is. St. Augustine, a Doctor of the Church and one of its greatest teachers, wrote that it is sometimes appropriate to whip your slaves, but that is surely a moral error. So how would a Catholic in the past before he could refer to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, have known that what St. Augustine said was not an authoritative teaching of the Church?
Click to expand...
Saints, or a Bishop, may certainly propose moral error. Hence, we have the Church.
 
PaulinVA #1095
The truth is, I am not a dissenter.
Click to expand...
False, as this topic is centred on the ignorance and/or dissent, involved in ignoring/denigrating the Church over Her teaching against contraception and you have dissented against that infallible doctrine.
The truth is, 1 Th 2:13 says “And for this reason we too give thanks to God unceasingly, that, in receiving the word of God from hearing us, you received not a human word but, as it truly is, the word of God, which is now at work in you who believe.” No mention of the Church. No mention of the Magisterium.
Click to expand...
A false conclusion – that because this particular passage does not mention the Church – that Paul is fantasied to ignore both!! Where ignorance is bliss ‘tis folly to be wise.

For St Paul specifically teaches that the Church is “the pillar and bulwark of the truth (1 Tim 3:16).”

None of the Apostles challenged Peter as to teaching, precisely because He was supreme leader, and they all knew it, and those who so fantasise ignore the real Paul who made sure that his ministry to the gentiles was recognised by, Peter (Gal 1:I8).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top