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Sister_Amy
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I think I will let you ponder these questions.
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ralphinal
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Likewise
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inJESUS
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i think you must ponder them because you are the one/s who claim. What were the apostles doing when Paul was contradicting Jesus’ teachings? and if Paul corrupted Christianity from its begining (despite thousands of believers and eyewitnesses which means he was omnipotent), how come at Muhammad’s time Christians had a valid gospel?
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inJESUS
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the followers of Muhammad opposed his family and there was bloodshed and multiple corrupt hadith and accusations of theft, adulty, and murder , and you find a problem with what Paul did even though Peter agreed on it?And when people say that Paul was preaching the same as the disciples, the letter to the Galatians offers an interesting note:
Paul writes, “When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong.”
I got the impression when I studied the New Testament, that Paul and the disciples did not agree, so, why should one take Paul’s word over theirs? Especially when it depends on his “conversion” story which I personally did not witness.
But if I were Paul, and I wanted people to believe me… then yeah, I would make up a story like that, because if people believed in Jesus’s miracles then they’d probably believe something like that.
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ralphinal
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Do you know what he confronted him about?And when people say that Paul was preaching the same as the disciples, the letter to the Galatians offers an interesting note:
Paul writes, “When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong.”
I got the impression when I studied the New Testament, that Paul and the disciples did not agree, so, why should one take Paul’s word over theirs? Especially when it depends on his “conversion” story which I personally did not witness.
But if I were Paul, and I wanted people to believe me… then yeah, I would make up a story like that, because if people believed in Jesus’s miracles then they’d probably believe something like that.
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Sister_Amy
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cathopologist
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Peter argued fishing with nets was a much quicker method whereas Paul argued he’d rather not get his sandals wet and preferred a fishing rod. Isn’t that right, Sister Amy?
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swariffin
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For Peter : See Mat 26:69-75, Mark 14:66-72, Luke 22:56-62. Why do you think logically (Hey, you still have your logic, do you?) that Peter cried? Jesus then reinstated Peter status in John 21:15-17. Oh yeah, you will argue that Peter did not expressedly say his confession and Jesus did not expressedly said his forgiveness. But, I do challenge your logic. You like to see things between the lines when you interpret holy verses, don’t you? Now, I give you a chance to proof it. Why Peter cried? Why Jesus insist Peter to be the shepherd of the lambs?
For Paul : See Act 9:1-18.
Why do you think that Paul (previously was Saul) allowed himself to be baptised by Ananias, the student of Jesus? What is Baptism according to you? Why did Jesus ask Ananias to “put his hand on Paul”? You like to interpret things between the lines. I give you another chance to proof it.
To find the truth, you must ask the holy spirit to open your mind, so you can see things between the lines. Don’t search the internet from anybody who just want to get famous like Dan Brown. Logically, it is easier to get famous by publishing spectacular issues about Jesus and Christianity, rather than issues about Islam. You can get famous and keep your head by following Dan Brown rather than following Salman Rusdhie, no matter what truth you bring.
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swariffin
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What you are showing is a good example of Christianity. Jesus asked the deciple to correct and being corrected. Peter had violated Jews custom by visiting a Roman named Cornelius in the name of Christianity, but Peter was uneasy when He was dining with the Greek still in the name of Christianity. No wonder Paul was upset with Peter. And Peter, although he is the leader of the apostles, he welcomed criticism. Surely Peter did not order other to kill Paul, just like Muhammad did.And when people say that Paul was preaching the same as the disciples, the letter to the Galatians offers an interesting note:
Paul writes, “When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong.”
I got the impression when I studied the New Testament, that Paul and the disciples did not agree, so, why should one take Paul’s word over theirs? Especially when it depends on his “conversion” story which I personally did not witness.
But if I were Paul, and I wanted people to believe me… then yeah, I would make up a story like that, because if people believed in Jesus’s miracles then they’d probably believe something like that.
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swariffin
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The Roman and the Jewish community were much much much stronger than Christianity at that time. You are correct. It is illogical and certainly unlikely.
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swariffin
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See posting #38 as your response to earlier postings, and your further reply in posting #41.
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cathopologist
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I totally missed your quote. You mirrored my sentiments from another thread. Muslims killed and defiled Uthman’s lifeless body because they felt he tampered with the the Qu’ran and had the alternative versions burnt. Unfortunately they had no other choice but to live with what they have left, which is the Qu’ran of today.
The Apostles might have done the same to St Paul (if they weren’t Christians) if they felt he tampered with the teachings of Christ.
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ralphinal
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They would not have killed him…
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cathopologist
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I know. At the most they would have tickled him.
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hamba2han
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Muslims do NOT believe that “St. Paul” is one of the "ten thousands of saints" mentioned in the Bible.
Muslims however, do indeed believe that the 3rd Caliph, Uthman ibn Affan (may Allah be pleased with him), has been guaranteed a place in Paradise by Almighty God Himself because he was actually one of the top 10 most pious among these “ten thousands of saints” who were of course the companions of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).
Muslims however, do indeed believe that the 3rd Caliph, Uthman ibn Affan (may Allah be pleased with him), has been guaranteed a place in Paradise by Almighty God Himself because he was actually one of the top 10 most pious among these “ten thousands of saints” who were of course the companions of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).
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ralphinal
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Muslims do not fully understand what it means to be a saint according to the Bible. If so, they would see why Paul would be one.
What does it mean to be pious? What does it mean to be a saint?
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hamba2han
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Absolutely no one but God Almighty Himself has the right to bestow sainthood on anyone of His servants that He wishes.
Muslims are not really interested in the “Saints” (with a capital ‘S’) who have been canonized by the Church because one’s level of piousness is also determined by God Almighty Himself and no one else.
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ralphinal
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I will take that as an “I do not know” answer and I will tell you.
Saint means “holy one.” That is all. All that it means is that the person was holy while on earth or that we know that they are in heaven now (heaven is reserved for those that are Holy). It has nothing to do with man bestowing anything on anyone. When the Church declairs someone a saint, she is saying that based on all of the evidence, we have no doubt that this person was holy on earth and is now in Heaven.
Now, does that help at all?
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hamba2han
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I forgot to add that absolutely no one but God Almighty Himself has the right to determine what constitutes “holiness”.
Now were you saying something about saints being “holy ones”?.. I do not disagree with you here but how does this affect the point that I was making about the only One who has the absolute right to determine whether or not someone is a saint?
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underdog
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IMO - If you remove the letters of Paul, you would get Roman Catholic theology.
If you add the letters of Paul together with the rest of the Scriptures, you get Protestant theology.
IMO…Roman Catholic Theology is much closer to Islam than Protestant Theology.
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