Why do Muslims believe St Paul was a liar?

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hamba2han said:
I forgot to add that absolutely no one but God Almighty Himself has the right to determine what constitutes “holiness”.

Now were you saying something about saints being “holy ones”?.. I do not disagree with you here but how does this affect the point that I was making about the only One who has the absolute right to determine whether or not someone is a saint?
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It has everything to do with it. When does GOd call someone holy? Why does God call someone holy? Who has God called holy?
 
hamba2han said:
Muslims do NOT believe that “St. Paul” is one of the "ten thousands of saints" mentioned in the Bible.

Muslims however, do indeed** believe** that the 3rd Caliph, Uthman ibn Affan (may Allah be pleased with him), has been guaranteed a place in Paradise by Almighty God Himself because he was actually one of the top 10 most pious** among these “ten thousands of saints”** who were of course the companions of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).
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So a Christian saint is not as pious as a Muslim “saint”. :rolleyes:

hamba2han: “I forgot to add that absolutely no one but God Almighty Himself has the right to determine what constitutes “holiness”.”
But Muslims can transform into gods to proclaim a wayward Caliph to be a pious man? Wonderful. :rolleyes:
 
underdog said:
IMO - If you remove the letters of Paul, you would get Roman Catholic theology.

If you add the letters of Paul together with the rest of the Scriptures, you get Protestant theology.
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Yes, but Catholics never removed books or letters from the Bible. It was the Protestants who did. We honour Paul as a saint in the Church. That speaks volumes.
underdog said:
IMO…Roman Catholic Theology is much closer to Islam than Protestant Theology.
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Actually Protestantism has more in common with Islamic theology than Catholicism. By the way, how come Jesus never taught us any of the five solas you so steadfastly hold on to? Which Jesus do you worship? The Jesus of historicity; of the Truth, the Way and the Life or the Jesus your self-styled pastor taught?
 
cathopologist said:
Yes, but Catholics never removed books or letters from the Bible. It was the Protestants who did. We honour Paul as a saint in the Church. That speaks volumes.

Actually Protestantism has more in common with Islamic theology than Catholicism. By the way, how come Jesus never taught us any of the five solas you so steadfastly hold on to? Which Jesus do you worship? The Jesus of historicity; of the Truth, the Way and the Life or the Jesus your self-styled pastor taught?
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What do you mean by five solas?
 
Originally Posted by hamba2han:
I forgot to add that absolutely no one but God Almighty Himself has the right to determine what constitutes “holiness”.
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ralphinal said:
It has everything to do with it. When does GOd call someone holy? Why does God call someone holy? Who has God called holy?
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Hi

I think it is in the same sense when some Jew called Jesus a pious man; and Jesus said that only God Allah YHWH was pious, something like that.

Thanks
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi

I think it is in the same sense when some Jew called Jesus a pious man; and Jesus said that only God Allah YHWH was pious, something like that.

Thanks
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The man called him holy and Jesus asked why he did it as only God is holy.

What you are missing is that by doing so, he was saying that he was God. If you said that I was strong, and I said in reply that only real men are strong, I am saying that you are calling me a real man.

When does GOd call someone holy? Why does God call someone holy? Who has God called holy?
 
ralphinal said:
The man called him holy and Jesus asked why he did it as only God is holy.

What you are missing is that by doing so, he was saying that he was God. If you said that I was strong, and I said in reply that only real men are strong, I am saying that you are calling me a real man.

When does GOd call someone holy? Why does God call someone holy? Who has God called holy?
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Kindly refer to the 99 names of Allah and in particular the folowing one:

AL-QUDDÛS … The Most Holy

It just does not make much sense at all that something which is NOT permitted by the Lord should be considered holy.
 
hamba2han said:
Kindly refer to the 99 names of Allah and in particular the folowing one:

AL-QUDDÛS … The Most Holy

It just does not make much sense at all that something which is NOT permitted by the Lord should be considered holy.
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We have established and no one is debating if God is holy.

What I am asking is WHEN does GOd call someone holy? WHY does God call someone holy? WHO has God called holy?
 
ralphinal said:
We have established and no one is debating if God is holy.

What I am asking is WHEN does GOd call someone holy? WHY does God call someone holy? WHO has God called holy?
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The thing to remember here is that the Qur’an is the verbatim Speech of Allah and therefore the fact that Allah refers to Himself as AL-QUDDÛS in the Qur’an means that He alone determines what is holy.

As an example, the Ka’ba is referred to as the Holy House because it is Allah Himself who calls it as such in the Qur’an.
 
hamba2han said:
The thing to remember here is that the Qur’an is the verbatim Speech of Allah and therefore the fact that Allah refers to Himself as AL-QUDDÛS in the Qur’an means that He alone determines what is holy.

As an example, the Ka’ba is referred to as the Holy House because it is Allah Himself who calls it as such in the Qur’an.
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Wow. I did not think that this was that hard.

Who has God called holy? Why did God call them holy? When has God called them holy?
 
hamba2han said:
The thing to remember here is that the Qur’an is the verbatim Speech of Allah and therefore the fact that Allah refers to Himself as AL-QUDDÛS in the Qur’an means that He alone determines what is holy.
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So is Mohammad considered a holy man?
 
Originally Posted by paarsurrey
Hi
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I think it is in the same sense when some Jew called Jesus a pious man; and Jesus said that only God Allah YHWH was pious, something like that.
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Thanks
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ralphinal said:
The man called him holy and Jesus asked why he did it as only God is holy.

What you are missing is that by doing so, he was saying that he was God. If you said that I was strong, and I said in reply that only real men are strong, I am saying that you are calling me a real man.

When does GOd call someone holy? Why does God call someone holy? Who has God called holy?
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Hi

I don’t agree with you; may be you are in your mythical mode.
Al-Quddus (the most holy) is an attribute of God Allah.

Thanks
 
Ok, people, since for some reason we are not communicating, I will force the issue.
If only God is holy, and only God can call someone holy, and God has not called anyone holy (because you people have yet to show me one example), then Muhammed WAS NOT HOLY. Uthman WAS NOT HOLY. THese saints that Hamba is always throwing around DO NOT EXIST.

Basically, there are no holy people and never have been. If there are no holy people and never have been, why should I beleive anyone?
 
Actually, I have never really given much thought to the concept of ‘holiness’ before.

Anyhow, for anyone who wishes to read, IMO a commendable Christian understanding of the idea of holiness in Islam, then you can refer to this webpage.
 
hamba2han said:
Actually, I have never really given much thought to the concept of ‘holiness’ before.

Anyhow, for anyone who wishes to read, IMO a commendable Christian understanding of the idea of holiness in Islam, then you can refer to this webpage.
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Perhaps you should.

I read that link. I do not see where it answers my questions. It does show how Muslim spirituality works but it does not show Who God has called Holy, why he did so, and when.

I do have questions about it, but they can wait.

For now, I want answers to my questions.
 
hamba2han said:
The thing to remember here is that the Qur’an is the verbatim Speech of Allah and therefore the fact that Allah refers to Himself as AL-QUDDÛS in the Qur’an means that He alone determines what is holy.

As an example, the Ka’ba is referred to as the Holy House because it is Allah Himself who calls it as such in the Qur’an.
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Is Allah dwell in Kaaba?
 
Hmm, why is ralphinal suspended? Did i miss yet another episode i wasn’t aware of?
 
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