Why do Muslims hate Israel?

[agiosotheos]

But didn’t the land first belong to the Jews and didn’t the Muslins first take it from them. They were only give back what God had promised them.

1. The Romans were responsible for the final displacement of the Jews from the land of Palestine, not the Arabs.
2. Jews are no longer the heirs of the promise.
3. The Arabs had been the predominant inhabitants of that land for more than 1,000 years, closer to 2,000.

 

[staffsgt7]

I can see what you’re driving at here, Sgt. He should have talked about the role that Islam plays in exacerbating (maybe you would say “creating”?) the problems between the Palestinians and the Israelis. I agree. But to the extent that this was not really a discussion about Islam (that is to say, to the extent that he, as a Christian, has a certain set of ideas about the problem in the holy land that aren’t based in Islamic thinking), I think this would have drawn the talk onto a different set of issues that would not have been as effective as the ones he did choose to focus on. I would think that the vast majority of Christians, especially in his part of the world, recognize the danger inherent in Islam, but that does not mean that it must always be at the forefront of our thinking. He is not a Muslim. His problem with Israel, to the extent that he has one, is not a “Islamic problem”. In a way, I think we do ourselves a disservice as Christians whenever we frame our arguments so that they are relatable to Islam, because that just validates the Islamic idea that Muslims and what they think and feel about things ought to be of foremost importance in the world, and to hell with whatever anyone who isn’t Muslim thinks. This is not at all the case. This man is a Christian, talking from a Christian viewpoint about how he feels about Israel and Palestine. He mentions Muslims because they are a huge majority, but he doesn’t argue one way or another against Muslim propaganda (such as the myth of the “Islamic state of Palestine” that you might see in some places), probably because as a Christian he doesn’t see that as a viewpoint that is worth addressing to begin with. Or at least I am assuming as much, given his line about supporting peacemakers on all sides instead of fostering extremes on any side.

So, yeah…he should say “and the people who are trying to make Palestine an Islamic state aren’t helping matters, either”, but at the same time I can see why he might not want to even start going down that road.

Most of the non-Muslims in the Middle East are so brow beaten and afraid of saying that Islam is the source of the problem that it makes sense. They probably have stockholm syndrome.

But islam is indeed the source of the problem.

It does need to be talked about and because we have the freedom to do so we MUST say exactly what the problem is. If not, we will be like him in a century or less. Or I should say our kids and their kids will be like them. Afraid, or even Muslim themselves because they figured that converting to Islam was better than living in fear all the time.

Most of those Muslims had ancestors that probably were Jews, Christians and pagans of varying degrees. They have lost their heritage. They have lost their art, and everything that made a civilization unique. They are now just useless Muslims bent on everyone else’s destruction. Well maybe not useless because the Arabs who call themselves Palestinians are being used by the Arabs in Saudi Arabia and other ones such as the Muslim Brotherhood (MB) over there. The MB is over there in the form of Hamas and so many other groups that I can’t list them all. Al Qaeda and the Saudi Wahabbis signed up with them in an alliance in the late 1980s, or earlier. I don’t remember the exact decade but it was a few decades ago.

I will say that I have no solution to their problem. But it should be as a warning to us and we just basically squabble amongst ourselves instead. In the end, we should see what the Middle East has produced and that is that all the squabbling turns to violence if one or the other isn’t the correct sect of Islam or a non-Muslim.

 

[dzheremi]

Most of the non-Muslims in the Middle East are so brow beaten and afraid of saying that Islam is the source of the problem that it makes sense. They probably have stockholm syndrome.

I don’t think this is a fair characterization. If you read the post I linked you to in my other post (here it is again, if you missed it), there are Christians who resist the state of affairs. That the majority do not resist in any obvious or violent way is no surprise. The majority of middle eastern Christians no longer live in the M.E., anyway, so who is going to support any uprising? The militaries of these countries? America? Israel? I don’t think so. So I don’t think it is a case of Stockholm Syndrome at all.

But islam is indeed the source of the problem.

Agreed.

It does need to be talked about and because we have the freedom to do so we MUST say exactly what the problem is.

Indeed. We’re doing so right now, no?

If not, we will be like him in a century or less.

I should be so blessed to ever be like Abouna Chacour!

Or I should say our kids and their kids will be like them. Afraid, or even Muslim themselves because they figured that converting to Islam was better than living in fear all the time.

I do not know what will happen in the future. I don’t think it is a foregone conclusion that there will be no Christians in the Middle East, though I certainly am concerned for the fate of the particular churches across the area. The Assyrians are in danger in their homeland in North Iraq, for sure, but elsewhere (particularly in North Africa) there is growth even amidst extreme persecution. And there will probably always be a small core of Maronites (supporters of the Kataeb and Ouwet) who will fight to keep the cross firmly planted in Lebanon. Copts have also risen up in protest, as they did after the attack on the Abu Fana monastery. I do not think all hope is lost, or rather, if it really is it is not out of fear but out of a lack of other options besides immigration to end their suffering.

If you can, you should see the movie “We loved each other so much” (trailer here). It is mainly about Lebanese music icon Fairuz, but through her influence on all sectors of society the film explores Lebanon from the point of view of several individual Christians and Muslims from various backgrounds (the man you see in the trailer is a Lebanese Armenian). The insights of the Christians in particular are revealing. Probably the most radical among all of them, a taxi driver and father, talks about fighting for his country during the civil war only to be thrown in jail and absolutely neglected by the government, to the point where he is looking to immigrate. He feels he risked himself for a place he no longer recognizes, because the government doesn’t want Christians that it characterizes as “right wing radicals” for being in the Christian militias who are unwilling to be happy with the current state of affairs. So he leaves because he’s disgusted with things, not because he’s afraid of Muslims. The same sense of disgust is expressed by basically everybody in the movie, regardless of religion. They all remember Lebanon as being better before the war.

Most of those Muslims had ancestors that probably were Jews, Christians and pagans

Yes, it is a historical fact that most of the growth of Islam came from conversion of non-Muslims, forced or otherwise.

They are now just useless Muslims bent on everyone else’s destruction

I don’t think Muslims are useless at all. I think Islam is a terrible ideology, but that doesn’t make Muslims useless. It makes them adherents of a terrible ideology.

I will say that I have no solution to their problem. But it should be as a warning to us and we just basically squabble amongst ourselves instead. In the end, we should see what the Middle East has produced and that is that all the squabbling turns to violence if one or the other isn’t the correct sect of Islam or a non-Muslim.

No. I think you’re off here. The current state of affairs is what ISLAM has produced. This is part of the problem I was talking about in my reply when I said that we do ourselves a disservice by framing everything in terms of Islam (or Islam vs. everything else). I refuse to buy into the Islamic historical narrative of lands that only became Islamic by force to begin with. I don’t see Iraq, Lebanon, North Africa, or anywhere outside of Arabia proper as “Muslim land”. It is Muslim-occupied land. As long as they continue their stranglehold over every inch of territory they’ve ever set foot on (or obsession over what they lost; e.g., talking about the Crusades as though they are still going on), I will not give Islam’s view of the world any credence.

Islam is not the Middle East, and the Middle East is not Islam. Here is another link that I’ve put up before that you might not have seen that will hopefully make the point more convincingly to you than I ever could: What Arab Civilization?

Resist the Islamicization of history.

 

[trdchubi]

And yet you continue to call them the chosen people of God in your signature. That is inconsistent with what East Anglican said in his post.

WHY DID GOD CHOOSE ISRAEL?

He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit. GALATIONS 3:14

WHAT IF GOD HAD NOT CHOSEN ISRAEL IN THE FIRST PLACE?

Then we are separated from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. EPHESIANS 2:12

 

[trdchubi]

1. The Romans were responsible for the final displacement of the Jews from the land of Palestine, not the Arabs.
2. Jews are no longer the heirs of the promise.

*“Yet in spite of this, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not reject them or abhor them so as to destroy them completely, breaking my covenant with them. I am the LORD their God”. *LEVITICUS 26:44

This is a clear promise that, despite their persecutions, the Jews would not be destroyed.

Just one of those numerous promises that still stand.

 

[agiosotheos]

WHY DID GOD CHOOSE ISRAEL?

He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit. GALATIONS 3:14

WHAT IF GOD HAD NOT CHOSEN ISRAEL IN THE FIRST PLACE?

Then we are separated from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. EPHESIANS 2:12

How does that answer what I said?

How does this show that the Jews are still God’s chosen people?

 

[agiosotheos]

*“Yet in spite of this, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not reject them or abhor them so as to destroy them completely, breaking my covenant with them. I am the LORD their God”. *LEVITICUS 26:44

This is a clear promise that, despite their persecutions, the Jews would not be destroyed.

Just one of those numerous promises that still stand.

That was a promise given to the bearers of the covenant which still applies to the bearers of the covenant. The Jews happen to no longer be the bearers of the covenant, however.

 

[VARC]

Gee, I wonder

episcopal-life.org/79901_113059_ENG_HTM.htm

 

[agiosotheos]

Gee, I wonder

episcopal-life.org/79901_113059_ENG_HTM.htm

Nice.

 

[trdchubi]

:banghead:

Who cares with those “filthy” Jews anyway, they were always unwanted in the first place. Affiliating with them is taboo. Might as well join the bandwagon. That’s the norm set by the ruling powers isn’t it, ridicule, persecute and eventually destroy all of of them?

Learn your history. Learn how these powers make the God of the Bible less credible by their acts against the Jews. They conspire to make Him a Liar They hate this God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

 

[agiosotheos]

Who cares with those “filthy” Jews anyway, they were always unwanted in the first place. Affiliating with them is taboo. Might as well join the bandwagon. That’s the norm set by the ruling powers isn’t it, ridicule, persecute and eventually destroy all of of them?

Learn your history. Learn how these powers make the God of the Bible less credible by their acts against the Jews. They conspire to make Him a Liar They hate this God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

You’re babbling.

 

[trdchubi]

You’re babbling.

Nonsense?!

Think

 

[agiosotheos]

Nonsense?!

Think

Is English your second language?

 

[Renko]

Why do Muslims hate anyone for that matter?

 

[trdchubi]

Is English your second language?

I’m just replying to your post saying that what was said are all but nonsense talk.

 

[agiosotheos]

Is English your second language?

 

[staffsgt7]

I don’t think this is a fair characterization. If you read the post I linked you to in my other post (here it is again, if you missed it), there are Christians who resist the state of affairs. That the majority do not resist in any obvious or violent way is no surprise. The majority of middle eastern Christians no longer live in the M.E., anyway, so who is going to support any uprising? The militaries of these countries? America? Israel? I don’t think so. So I don’t think it is a case of Stockholm Syndrome at all.

Agreed.

Indeed. We’re doing so right now, no?

I should be so blessed to ever be like Abouna Chacour!

I

Yes, it is a historical fact that most of the growth of Islam came from conversion of non-Muslims, forced or otherwise.

I don’t think Muslims are useless at all. I think Islam is a terrible ideology, but that doesn’t make Muslims useless. It makes them adherents of a terrible ideology.

No. I think you’re off here. The current state of affairs is what ISLAM has produced. This is part of the problem I was talking about in my reply when I said that we do ourselves a disservice by framing everything in terms of Islam (or Islam vs. everything else). I refuse to buy into the Islamic historical narrative of lands that only became Islamic by force to begin with. I don’t see Iraq, Lebanon, North Africa, or anywhere outside of Arabia proper as “Muslim land”. It is Muslim-occupied land. As long as they continue their stranglehold over every inch of territory they’ve ever set foot on (or obsession over what they lost; e.g., talking about the Crusades as though they are still going on), I will not give Islam’s view of the world any credence.

Islam is not the Middle East, and the Middle East is not Islam. Here is another link that I’ve put up before that you might not have seen that will hopefully make the point more convincingly to you than I ever could: What Arab Civilization?

Resist the Islamicization of history.

Well, I stated previously that not only did I join Act for America but became a group leader. Just today we had a conference and talk about Muslims trying to silence it, the book Muslim Mafia brings what they have been doing in that regard plus many, many more things they have been doing that reflect the Muslim Brotherhood’s agenda in the USA. We found out that CAIR is suing the publisher of the book for everything except defamation which says a LOT! Basically, the book is telling the truth.

So we are asking people to sign a petition. If you want you can go to the actforamerica.org website. I won’t say anymore on that here.

I just ordered the book tonight. Any book that a front for the MB wants to shut down is worth me supporting the publisher, author and anyone else in relation to the book.

More importantly it tells of them trying to silence our media. They are doing that now in Lebanon by making some huge deal with the LBC (a Christian broadcasting station). Brigitte spoke about that tonight since she is a Lebanese-American and keeps tabs on her home country. A saudi prince owns 14% of Fox news and that is why Fox hasn’t said too much about CAIR, or any MB front group lately. The other left wing medias are just the Muslim’s mouthpiece and they do it more cheaply.

They also have been infiltrating gangs and arming them to the teeth. And we all know of their prisoner recruitment activities. there is even more they do and the book should tell me more.

There are some articles out about the book, here is one.

As for the rest of your comments, I know that Islam is all over. The Middle East is a good example of what it does to countries, to people. And yes the people do have a different way of thinking when they live under subjugation. I know Christians from Jordan and Lebanon (other than Brigitte who I don’t know other than through her books), and they actually ssshh’d me when talking about Islam. They started whispering. Me, the dork, just went on as normal.

I will read your articles though. I don’t see islam as you see it. Any land that has a Muslim majority they already feel they own it. And if they are governed by any Sharia laws then it is a done deal. It is just ‘cleanup’ to subjugate the rest of the population (or kill them).

By the way, they don’t do all lands by force to begin with. They do the stealth jihad. Docs were unclassified and shown to us what their agenda is. I will find the links again and show you where to find them if you want to read them. Books have been written about their stealth jihad. Whether by stealth or violence the end is the same.

 

[staffsgt7]

Here is a page from a book that shows the stages the countries have been going through with the stealth jihad.

Here is a lengthly pdf doc on what was unclassified that is easier to read than this doc that is a copy of the original doc.

The thing is that it is easier in countries that do not have such easy access to communication. But our country offers them an easy way to gain inroads due to political correctness and our supplying them with unlimited funds via oil, to buy our businesses. The Wahabbis are part of the overseas MB and work with the American MB. They have funded over 1200 mosques and have supplied over 220 of them with hate literature. They also export their wahabbi clerics and some of them are in the prisons recruiting too.

You better believe they have been working in the UN to shut down any discussion of Islam by non-Muslims and in our country they have a willing President and Congress. The President wants more control over the internet even though he has total control in an emergency.

I am diverting off the topic, again.

Why do Muslims hate Israel? Because Mohammed hated Jews. Mohammed said that Allah hated them. So they hate them. Individual Muslims don’t hate just because they are told to hate. They also are not the ones stopping the Jihadists, or their clerics from pushing the ideology of hatred onto others. I think they have stockholm syndrome too. Maybe not like the subjugated people but they are just as intimidated.

 

[dzheremi]

I will read your articles though. I don’t see islam as you see it. Any land that has a Muslim majority they already feel they own it. And if they are governed by any Sharia laws then it is a done deal. It is just ‘cleanup’ to subjugate the rest of the population (or kill them).

Incidentally, this view is not too far off from what Peter BetBasoo is saying in his article, and it IS also my viewpoint (heck, and not even that, it’s the plain fact of the historical record!). Maybe you and I don’t see Islam in such different light after all.

By the way, they don’t do all lands by force to begin with. They do the stealth jihad. Docs were unclassified and shown to us what their agenda is. I will find the links again and show you where to find them if you want to read them. Books have been written about their stealth jihad. Whether by stealth or violence the end is the same.

Of course, of course. I did not mean to imply that there is only force in Islam. There is also coercion, either softly or firmly. A seemingly reasonably request here or there that disinterested post-religious secularists think is no different than what other groups ask for (“Oh, you want your Qur’an placed above all other books in the library? Sure, no problem.”). They probably even ask politely and get their way just from being polite. Not enough people realize the ramifications of giving in to such demands that feed into Islam’s inexhaustable demand for “respect” in the form of preferential treatment from non-Muslims. I am not a librarian, but as a individual who cares about people of ALL beliefs being treated equally so long as they do not seek to subjugate others, I think such things are ridiculous and ought to be opposed vociferously at every turn by those of us in the west who are lucky enough to still have the freedom to protest such creeping Shari’a. If I lived in the UK (where that memo originated), I would make a point of reshelving the Qur’an myself - right between any other religious books that might begin in P or R, just where it would go if Muslims weren’t such a bunch of babies.

 

[Doxiemom]

Jacob had been given the first-born inheritence by deceit between him and his mother. That traditionally should have been given to Esau. Even when his father realized what happened, he refused to change the blessings as the blessings could not be changed.

You could say it goes back even further in history when Sarah insisted that Abraham oust Hagar with Ismael so that issac would inherit everything.

So this really is a family squabble thousands of years old.

But God made a Blood Covenant with Abraham that this land shall belong to the off-spring of the child of him and Sarah, not hagar. God says that He will never break that covenant.

So the land belongs to the Jews. Argue the point with God and see who wins.

The palistine people had a chance to have their own state when the Un made israel a nation- which is prophecy fulfilled. They said no.

God Chosen are still the Jewish people. This never has changed. Did God lie?

The palistine people have been wronged by their leaders. They suck dry all the money given to them and raise their kids with hatred towards the Jews. Golda meir said" We can forgive you for killing our children but we cannot forgive you for making us kill yours"

Israel was attacked within days of becoming a nation. How it won that war is truely a miracle. Attacked from all sides by strong miliarty nations.

We are not the Chosen. We are Chrsitians. We are the bride of Chrsit but theChosen are the Wife of God.

And what does that make Muslims? It makes them a people who know our (Jewish and Christian) God from a far distance. They have little light(knowledge) for the Koran is a bastardized version of Scripture suited to stir up hate and forced submission by fear or blood and death.

This hatred is helped and fostered by none other than Satan. And it wil not end until the final battle is won by our King, Jesus Christ. All the Jews whose eyes have been blinded will be opened.

Jerusalem belongs to the Jews. And the land israel now occupies is but a sliver compared to what they really should own. Someday they will.

As i said, if this does not suit you, argue the point with God. And see Who wins.