Why do Muslims have their own religion?

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thistle said:
I did not say Judaism was false. I said Judaism was fulfilled by the coming of Christ.
See my other post on no salvation outside the Church.
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You said all other religions were false. You have not said why you believe that Satan inspired the Koran, or whether you believe this is Catholic teaching.
 
Hokomai said:
You said all other religions were false. You have not said why you believe that Satan inspired the Koran, or whether you believe this is Catholic teaching.
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Judaism and Christianity are inextricably linked. Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism. If you like its our parent religion.
What else is it you don’t get? I gave you the Church teaching that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. Muslims are outside the Catholic Church and will not be saved.
Anything that is false and against the Catholic faith is by definition Satan inspired. He is the great deceiver who tries to pull people away from the Church or stop people (like the muslims) coming to know the Church.
 
Hokomai said:
thistle;8626903:
Judaism and Christianity are inextricably linked. Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism. If you like its our parent religion.

Hi Thistle. What you said was

I did not understand that from this you identified Christianity and Judaism as one religion, and believed Judaism not to be false.

Is this Catholic teaching? That Satan is the origin of all falsehood, in a sense other than that he tempted Adam and Eve, or it that what you mean?

Thistle, you said

Do you mean that Satan actually appeared under the guise of an Angel? If so, is that Catholic teaching?
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Church teaching on Satan:

CCC 2852 “A murderer from the beginning, . . . a liar and the father of lies,” Satan is “the deceiver of the whole world.” Through him sin and death entered the world and by his definitive defeat all creation will be “freed from the corruption of sin and death.” Now “we know that anyone born of God does not sin, but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him. We know that we are of God, and the whole world is in the power of the evil one.”

The Lord who has taken away your sin and pardoned your faults also protects you and keeps you from the wiles of your adversary the devil, so that the enemy, who is accustomed to leading into sin, may not surprise you. One who entrusts himself to God does not dread the devil. “If God is for us, who is against us?”

CCC 414 Satan or the devil and the other demons are fallen angels who have freely refused to serve God and his plan. Their choice against God is definitive. They try to associate man in their revolt against God.

CCC 2851 In this petition, evil is not an abstraction, but refers to a person, Satan, the Evil One, the angel who opposes God. The devil (dia-bolos) is the one who “throws himself across” God’s plan and his work of salvation accomplished in Christ.

CCC 2864 In the last petition, “but deliver us from evil,” Christians pray to God with the Church to show forth the victory, already won by Christ, over the “ruler of this world,” Satan, the angel personally opposed to God and to his plan of salvation.

In short Satan is a liar and deceiver and will try anything to act against God and prevent people from their salvation which is only through Christ.
Anything that is against the Church and Christ is of Satan.
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thistle said:
Hokomai;8626994:
Church teaching on Satan:

CCC 2852 “A murderer from the beginning, . . . a liar and the father of lies,” Satan is “the deceiver of the whole world.” Through him sin and death entered the world and by his definitive defeat all creation will be “freed from the corruption of sin and death.” Now “we know that anyone born of God does not sin, but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him. We know that we are of God, and the whole world is in the power of the evil one.”

The Lord who has taken away your sin and pardoned your faults also protects you and keeps you from the wiles of your adversary the devil, so that the enemy, who is accustomed to leading into sin, may not surprise you. One who entrusts himself to God does not dread the devil. “If God is for us, who is against us?”

CCC 414 Satan or the devil and the other demons are fallen angels who have freely refused to serve God and his plan. Their choice against God is definitive. They try to associate man in their revolt against God.

CCC 2851 In this petition, evil is not an abstraction, but refers to a person, Satan, the Evil One, the angel who opposes God. The devil (dia-bolos) is the one who “throws himself across” God’s plan and his work of salvation accomplished in Christ.

CCC 2864 In the last petition, “but deliver us from evil,” Christians pray to God with the Church to show forth the victory, already won by Christ, over the “ruler of this world,” Satan, the angel personally opposed to God and to his plan of salvation.

In short Satan is a liar and deceiver and will try anything to act against God and prevent people from their salvation which is only through Christ.
Anything that is against the Church and Christ is of Satan.
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So did he or did he not appear to the Prophet in the guise of an angel, and is this belief a part of Catholic teaching?
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Hokomai said:
thistle;8627029:
So did he or did he not appear to the Prophet in the guise of an angel, and is this belief a part of Catholic teaching?
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It is not a specific Church teaching and neither has the Church said that is not the case.
In case you are not aware, the Church does not have a check-list of all religions stating this that and the other are false. By definition they are all false because the Catholic Church is the only true Church and by definition it is not God who is behind false religions. As you can read from the Church teachings Satan is behind EVERYTHING that is against Christ and the Church.
It could not have been the Angel Gabriel who appeared to Mohammed and by default it was Satan in disguise.
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thistle said:
Hokomai;8627074:
It is not a specific Church teaching and neither has the Church said that is not the case.
In case you are not aware, the Church does not have a check-list of all religions stating this that and the other are false. By definition they are all false because the Catholic Church is the only true Church and by definition it is not God who is behind false religions. As you can read from the Church teachings Satan is behind EVERYTHING that is against Christ and the Church.
It could not have been the Angel Gabriel who appeared to Mohammed and by default it was Satan in disguise.
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So how come Pope Paul Vl said this
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  1. The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.
    Since in the course of centuries not a few quarrels and hostilities have arisen between Christians and Moslems, this sacred synod urges all to forget the past and to work sincerely for mutual understanding and to preserve as well as to promote together for the benefit of all mankind social justice and moral welfare, as well as peace and freedom.
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vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decl_19651028_nostra-aetate_en.html
 
ASimon said:
I tend to think that Islam was conceived as a reaction to the monotheistic faiths of Judaism and Christianity - the restoration to an uncorrupted vision of God’s will.
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thats the basic idea behind islam, one that is repeated over and over again in the second surah in the quran
 
thistle said:
He is saying respect muslims as we should respect all people.
This means I can respect a muslim and his right (through freewill) to believe in anything he wants, even if it is false, but I do not have to respect the false belief.
He said we should respect the individual. He does not say we should respect Islam.
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Doesn’t the Catechism–authoritative source of Church teaching, though not infallible–state explicitly that Muslims sincerely believe in the same one G-d as Christians and may be saved, and that Islam is a sister monotheistic religion to Christianity? As I recall, there is no mention of Islam’s being inspired by Satan.
 
meltzerboy said:
Doesn’t the Catechism–authoritative source of Church teaching, though not infallible–state explicitly that Muslims sincerely believe in the same one G-d as Christians and may be saved, and that Islam is a sister monotheistic religion to Christianity? As I recall, there is no mention of Islam’s being inspired by Satan.
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Christianity (the fulfillment of Judaism) is the only true religion. By definition ALL other religions are false. Anything that is against Christ and his Church is inspired by Satan.
 
ASimon said:
I tend to think that Islam was conceived as a reaction to the monotheistic faiths of Judaism and Christianity - the restoration to an uncorrupted vision of God’s will.
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How can Islam be a reaction to the monotheism of Judaism and Christianity when it is itself a monotheistic faith? I tend to think it was more of a reaction to the polytheistic world of preIslamic society and the prevaling belief and fear of jinns or spirits which were thought to occupy the desert.
 
thistle said:
Christianity (the fulfillment of Judaism) is the only true religion. By definition ALL other religions are false. Anything that is against Christ and his Church is inspired by Satan.
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👍

I think Thistle is spot on, although I will add that we have no way of knowing whether a particular Muslim is going to heaven or not. That is up to God.

However, Catholicism is THE truth.
 
Tsuwano said:
How can Islam be a reaction to the monotheism of Judaism and Christianity when it is itself a monotheistic faith? I tend to think it was more of a reaction to the polytheistic world of preIslamic society and the prevaling belief and fear of jinns or spirits which were thought to occupy the desert.
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i must have misread, i meant to say was a reaction against both polytheists and the jews and christians deviations from god (that jews are rascist and christians split one god into a polytheistic three persons)
 
thistle said:
He is saying respect muslims as we should respect all people.
This means I can respect a muslim and his right (through freewill) to believe in anything he wants, even if it is false, but I do not have to respect the false belief.
He said we should respect the individual. He does not say we should respect Islam.
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So Thistle do you really think that Pope Paul believed the beliefs for which he professes respect were inspired by Satan?
 
meltzerboy said:
Doesn’t the Catechism–authoritative source of Church teaching, though not infallible–state explicitly that Muslims sincerely believe in the same one G-d as Christians and may be saved, and that Islam is a sister monotheistic religion to Christianity? As I recall, there is no mention of Islam’s being inspired by Satan.
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It states they “profess” to believe in the same One God, but does not state they do per se as what is fully required to do so.

Pope Gregory XVI (A.D. 1831 – 1846): “It is not possible to worship God truly except in Her; all who are outside Her will not be saved.” (Encyclical, Summo Jugiter )

Mohammad taught nothing that came from the Father. Read CCC:

III. Christ Jesus – "Mediator and Fullness of All Revelation"25

God has said everything in his Word

65 "In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son."26 Christ, the Son of God made man, is the Father’s one, perfect and unsurpassable Word. In him he has said everything; there will be no other word than this one. St. John of the Cross, among others, commented strikingly on Hebrews 1:1-2:

In giving us his Son, his only Word (for he possesses no other), he spoke everything to us at once in this sole Word - and he has no more to say. . . because what he spoke before to the prophets in parts, he has now spoken all at once by giving us the All Who is His Son. Any person questioning God or desiring some vision or revelation would be guilty not only of foolish behaviour but also of offending him, by not fixing his eyes entirely upon Christ and by living with the desire for some other novelty.27

There will be no further Revelation

66 "The Christian economy, therefore, since it is the new and definitive Covenant, will never pass away; and no new public revelation is to be expected before the glorious manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ."28 Yet even if Revelation is already complete, it has not been made completely explicit; it remains for Christian faith gradually to grasp its full significance over the course of the centuries.

67 Throughout the ages, there have been so-called “private” revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.

Christian faith cannot accept “revelations” that claim to surpass or correct the Revelation of which Christ is the fulfilment, as is the case in certain nonChristian religions and also in certain recent sects which base themselves on such “revelations”.

As the Son of God spoke:

"But he that shall deny me before men, I will also deny him before my Father who is in heaven… He that receiveth you, receiveth me: and he that receiveth me, receiveth him that sent me.
 
thistle said:
Which specific beliefs are you referring to?
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These specific beliefs, which Pope Paul Vl attributed to Muslims, and are found in the Koran, the authorship of which you attribute to Satan. I am asking if you believe Pope Paul held the same belief you do about the origins of these beliefs:
They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.
Click to expand...
 
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