Why do Muslims have their own religion?

[Auzer]

What does “Messiah” mean in Islam?

It literally means ‘the anointed one’ …

Probably you don’t know but this word “Messiah” , " Maseeh" etc etc has different meanings in different languages or/and in different contexts.

In Islam , Messiah means that Jesus was a Prophet.He truthful and the messenger of God. Jesus is Messiah…he is Mubarak…means he is blessed one etc etc …

I hope you got the answer…Even in ALL hebrew scriptures…Messiah has the same meaning. Some Christians falsely assume that “mesiah” has something to do with ‘being God’…which is absolutely false…both linguistically and theologically.

 

[Auzer]

incorrect. When Mohammed first declared himself a prophet of Allah, he had trouble getting followers. Thats when the first part of Quran was written, the one that talks about peace, love and forgivness. Mohammed was a warrior however, who lived by the sword and when he concured the tribes, many of them didn’t wish to accept Quran and his revelations voluntarily. That’s when he had some more revelations(after Medina) which ABROGATE the earliest peaceful ones. And the latest verses are the ones where he talks about having no mercy on infidels, no taking them as friends, you know-all the fun stuff. So facing death and eradication many hurriedly accepted Islam.

Well sir your knowledge regarding Prophet (SAW) and Islam is very inaccurate. Please don’t go to Christian missionary sites to learn ‘Islam’. NO ONE “abrogated” the peaceful verses of Qur’an. The doctrine of abrogation in Islam is very different than your understanding. Qur’an TELLS us when he is abrogating anything. Let me give you an example…First it was O.K to drink (wine) in Islam and Qur’an. Then God says that drink but do not go to prayer when you are drunk and then in later revelations,God prohibited drinking all together…This is abrogation is Qur’an. Please don’t give your own interpretation of my scripture. Peaceful verses are general commands in Qur’an that Muslims should follow for ever. The “violent” verses are specific verses that were revealed in a certain and for a specific situation and/or context. You say that Muhammad forced people in but at the conquest of Mecca e announced open forgiveness for Meccans,his bitterest enemies. Again , I would urge you to stop reading propaganda missionary sites. These hateful missionaries don’t only misguide people but they also give a bad reputation to your beautiful religion.

As for Jesus-they claim to recognize him as prophet although Mohammed is supposed to have been “greater” one(you might want to read Quran and Bible to see where the truth lies) and that “Jesus” is supposed to return as Mahdi(Messiah) and eradicate all religions but Islam.
If Mahdi is going to come as many Muslims believe, I can assure u it aren’t gonna be Jesus

Sir who told you that Jesus would return as “Mahdi” ???

Wait, don’t tell me that you watched Walid Shoebat’s fake deceptive lectures and believed them? :banghead:

According to Muslim belief , Jesus would return and tell the people that he was only a messenger and he never claimed to be a ‘God’ …

 

[sedonaman]

It literally means ‘the anointed one’ …

…

In Islam , Messiah means that Jesus was a Prophet.He truthful and the messenger of God. Jesus is Messiah…he is Mubarak…means he is blessed one etc etc …
…

So why is Jesus the anointed one and the blessed one and not Mohammed? What sets him apart from the other prophets of Islam that he has a special title?

 

[Auzer]

So why is Jesus the anointed one and the blessed one and not Mohammed? What sets him apart from the other prophets of Islam that he has a special title?

Well ALL prophets are “blessed ones” , “Mubarak” , “Truthful” , “Ameen” etc etc …Who told you that Muhammad isn’t " Mubarak" in Islam? Prophet Muhammad (SAW) was known as “Sadiq” and “Ameen” (Honest and Truthful) among Meccans even BEFORE the prophet hood.

 

[sedonaman]

Well ALL prophets are “blessed ones” , “Mubarak” , “Truthful” , “Ameen” etc etc …Who told you that Muhammad isn’t " Mubarak" in Islam? …

Never heard a Muslim refer to him as the Messiah.

 

[Wandile]

Well simply because Islam claims to believe in the Prophets of the bible but tends to distort the stories e.g. In the Qur’an God asked Abraham to sacrifice Ishmael not Isaac, Jesus was not crucified in the Qur’an

Islam claims to believe in the God of the bible but in truth Allah is not YHWH, they are two totally different entities.

And lastly because Islam believes it is the true religion and believes Muhammad was a prophet. To christians this can’t be considered ANY form of christianity, it can’t even be considered heretical, it is simply a religion on its own.

 

[jakasaki]

In the Qur’an God asked Abraham to sacrifice Ishmael not Isaac,

Hi there, Merry Christmas & welcome to CAF.

Please note. Nowhere in the quran does it mention that Ishmael was the sacrifice.

 

[Wandile]

Hi there, Merry Christmas & welcome to CAF.

Please note. Nowhere in the quran does it mention that Ishmael was the sacrifice.

True I concede this… It simply says he sacrificed his son but according to Islamic tradition, the son in the passage is Ishmael as well the fact that the Qur’an is a muslim book backs up my position that it teaches Ishmael as the son in question.

 

[Auzer]

Well simply because Islam claims to believe in the Prophets of the bible but tends to distort the stories

Well from Muslims’ stand point : Qur’an ‘corrects’ the distorted stories of the bible–Like this : **"For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he RESTED, and was REFRESHED. [Exo. 31:1[/COLOR]7]

Qur’an : We created the heavens and the earth and all between them in six days, nor did any sense of weariness touch us. [50:38]
Now offcourse Christian response comes that this verse of bible is metaphorical or figurative etc but as a Muslim, I can understand the God rested part (figurative use…implying that God stop working etc ) but was “refreshed” …what does that imply?

e.g. In the Qur’an God asked Abraham to sacrifice Ishmael not Isaac, Jesus was not crucified in the Qur’an

Qur’an just mentions the ‘son’ not any name. Regarding Jesus–Its a long topic.Not here.

Islam claims to believe in the God of the bible but in truth Allah is not YHWH, they are two totally different entities.

This position of some rather brainwashed (by missionaries) Christians is very problematic. Throughout history, Judaism,Christianity and Islam were seen as “Abrahamic faiths” --God of these religion was same. Now in recent history, insecure Christians are coming up with this weird notion…This put Christianity in a VERY problematic situation :

1-Christianity is not a part of Abrahamic traditions because they don’t worship the God of Abraham,Moses , David etc because you yourself said that your god yhwh is not the one true God of Islam and Judaism,Allah (which means THE GOD in Arabic)

2- JEWS themselves consider Muslims to be VERY close to them. Judaism and Islam worship the SAME God and there is NO second opinion about it. Very influential Jewish scholars/religious leaders/Rabbis have encouraged Jews to worship in Muslim mosque if there is no synagogue around,as Muslim mosque is THE BEST place for worship in the absence of synagogue.On the other hand, Jews can not pray or worship in Church as Christians worship human (according to some influential Jewish Rabbi etc)

3- Arab Christians themselve call God as “Allah” and Arabic bible uses word “Allah” in place of God.Yemeni Jews also call God as “Allah” …

Now all these facts make Christianity look like a joke when some people say “Oh Christians don’t worship the god of Islam…Allah is a moon god blah blah” …Because this put Christianity is a VERY disturbing position and almost throw christianity out of Abrahamic tradition (Jews are the original holders of Abrahamic tradition)

And lastly because Islam believes it is the true religion and believes Muhammad was a prophet. To christians this can’t be considered ANY form of christianity, it can’t even be considered heretical, it is simply a religion on its own.

Bible never explicitly states that Jesus is the last prophet and no one would come after him…where as in Islam, it is EXPLICITLY stated that Prophet Muhammad (SAW) is the last Prophet and Qur’an is the last message of God to mankind etc etc…If the God in bible wanted to address this points, he definitely would’ve been VERY EXPLICIT about it (like in Qur’an) because these issues are VERY important and God does not leave ambiguity in HIS message towards his mankind…**

 

[Wandile]

I tried to attempt to address all your topics but this site has a cap of 6000 Characters so here is my email :

wmgwenya@gmail.com

We can discuss all of these issues via email because forums are too small to have these kind of discussions.

You can also find me over here :

debate.org/Wandile/

That is my profile on Debate.org . I’d prefer you to debate me there because debates are organized better.

CONTACT ME AUZER ! I provided two ways of contacting me so contact me.

 

[Auzer]

I tried to attempt to address all your topics but this site has a cap of 6000 Characters so here is my email :

wmgwenya@gmail.com

We can discuss all of these issues via email because forums are too small to have these kind of discussions.

You can also find me over here :

debate.org/Wandile/

That is my profile on Debate.org . I’d prefer you to debate me there because debates are organized better.

CONTACT ME AUZER ! I provided two ways of contacting me so contact me.

Well debate.org isn’t a very good idea. I just checked it … What is the purpose of having those LONG subjective debates,when viewers don’t even read them and just cast their “vote” out of bias? Secondly, you should’ve been able to ‘reply’ to my post here. What in the world you were writing that took you THAT much space and now you can’t post it here?:whacky: You can give me an overview atleast of your reply…I mean you can reply to my post here…Don’t go in “details” …Just like I replied to you here …

Also making LONGGGGGGG responses does not ensure the validity of the argument. A good response is one that is objective,to the point and easily readable/comprehensible …

 

[Kristin234]

1-Christianity is not a part of Abrahamic traditions because they don’t worship the God of Abraham,Moses , David etc because you yourself said that your god yhwh is not the one true God of Islam and Judaism,Allah (which means THE GOD in Arabic)

3- Arab Christians themselve call God as “Allah” and Arabic bible uses word “Allah” in place of God.Yemeni Jews also call God as “Allah” …

That is a very weak argument. I am half Middle Eastern and when we say Allah…or Allaha it means God. It does not mean that we believe in the same God as Muslims. That is like saying Hindus believe in the same God because they call each and every god God. If my Hindu friend says he prayed to his God I know he doesn’t mean the same God I pray to…even though he used the word God.

 

[Auzer]

That is a very weak argument. I am half Middle Eastern and when we say Allah…or Allaha it means God. It does not mean that we believe in the same God as Muslims. That is like saying Hindus believe in the same God because they call each and every god God. If my Hindu friend says he prayed to his God I know he doesn’t mean the same God I pray to…even though he used the word God.

The argument becomes weak on YOUR side …

Islam and Judaism worship EXACTLY same God. There is NO second opinion about it. Christians on the other hand claim to worship the same God but in trinity…Jews see Christians as “human worshippers pagan” …But historians regard Christianity as an Abrahamic faith but when you come up and say “No we don’t worship the God of Islam” then this makes Christianity a joke. Christianity throws itself out of the Abrahamic tradition…Remember the original careers of Abrahamic tradition are Jews and they already regard you as pagan human worshippers…They are told not to even enter Church…Its MUSLIMS who say that though Christians are mistaken about Jesus’ divinity but they worship the same God…but when you attack Allah, Islam does not take any heat—Christianity becomes a laughing stock instead.

So it goes like this

Jews worship Allah (tick)

Muslims worship Allah (tick)

Christians worship jesus+ yhwh+ spirit (tick)

Jews call Christians as human worshipers pagans (tick)

Muslims say that though mistaken but Christian worship the God of Abraham (tick)

Christians say that Muslim don’t worship the same god as theirs (yhwh)

Now LOOT IN PATTERN …Take out the bold statement from the pattern…Christianity becomes a joke and is thrown out of Abrahamic legacy . . . Its up to you…Either you worship the God of Abraham,Moses,David etc OR you want to be labelled as human pagan worshiper who have nothing to do with God of Abraham…

 

[Kristin234]

Bible never explicitly states that Jesus is the last prophet and no one would come after him…where as in Islam, it is EXPLICITLY stated that Prophet Muhammad (SAW) is the last Prophet and Qur’an is the last message of God to mankind etc etc…If the God in bible wanted to address this points, he definitely would’ve been VERY EXPLICIT about it (like in Qur’an) because these issues are VERY important and God does not leave ambiguity in HIS message towards his mankind…

**
In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son**, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.

I think that is explicit enough. Jesus wasn’t just a prophet. He is the Son, the second person in the trinity, he is God. Obviously no one is greater than God. If God came down on earth then he is the final one. As it says in the verse above. In the past we had prophets but now we have his son.

I also believe that this parable refers to Jesus:

“The tenants seized his servants; they beat one, killed another, and stoned a third. Then he sent other servants to them, more than the first time, and the tenants treated them the same way. Last of all, he sent his son to them. ‘They will respect my son,’ he said.

God sent prophets until Jesus left his rightful throne and came down to solve a problem that no one including the prophets could solve.

 

[Kristin234]

The argument becomes weak on YOUR side …

So it goes like this

Jews worship Allah (tick)

Muslims worship Allah (tick)

Christians worship jesus+ yhwh+ spirit (tick)

Jews call Christians as human worshipers pagans (tick)

Muslims say that though mistaken but Christian worship the God of Abraham (tick)

Christians say that Muslim don’t worship the same god as theirs (yhwh)

Now LOOT IN PATTERN …Take out the bold statement from the pattern…Christianity becomes a joke and is thrown out of Abrahamic legacy . . . Its up to you…Either you worship the God of Abraham,Moses,David etc OR you want to be labelled as human pagan worshiper who have nothing to do with God of Abraham…

Auzer, did you read why I said your argument was weak? You said that some Arab Christians use the word Allah and Allah means God, so we must be worshiping the same God if Allah means God.

What I said is that that is weak because just because Allah means God it does not mean we are worshiping the same God. Allah when translated simply means God.

If someone believes that his pen is god and refers to his pen as God it does not mean we believe in the same God. Just because you use the same word that I do when referring to a higher being does not mean we must believe in the same thing.

I have had an argument with a Muslim about this before and it didn’t make sense to me then and it still doesn’t make sense to me now. Just because I refer to God as Allah or Allaha when speaking in my language does not mean I am referring to the same God.

 

[Auzer]

Auzer, did you read why I said your argument was weak? You said that some Arab Christians use the word Allah and Allah means God, so we must be worshiping the same God if Allah means God.

What I said is that that is weak because just because Allah means God it does not mean we are worshiping the same God. Allah when translated simply means God.

If someone believes that his pen is god and refers to his pen as God it does not mean we believe in the same God. Just because you use the same word that I do when referring to a higher being does not mean we must believe in the same thing.

I have had an argument with a Muslim about this before and it didn’t make sense to me then and it still doesn’t make sense to me now. Just because I refer to God as Allah or Allaha when speaking in my language does not mean I am referring to the same God.

Well I didn’t even touch that point…The point I was making was that if you say that you’re god is not the same one of Islam…your religion becomes a joke and is thrown out of the Abrahamic legacy…read my post again …I’ve explained it how…

**
In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son**, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.

I think that is explicit enough. Jesus wasn’t just a prophet. He is the Son, the second person in the trinity, he is God. Obviously no one is greater than God. If God came down on earth then he is the final one. As it says in the verse above. In the past we had prophets but now we have his son.

I also believe that this parable refers to Jesus:

“The tenants seized his servants; they beat one, killed another, and stoned a third. Then he sent other servants to them, more than the first time, and the tenants treated them the same way. Last of all, he sent his son to them. ‘They will respect my son,’ he said.

God sent prophets until Jesus left his rightful throne and came down to solve a problem that no one including the prophets could solve.

Yup my dear friend…YOU THINK that this is explicit but even you down somewhere in your heart know that this is no way near being “explicit” …Secondly, this is SOMEONE ELSE saying it and NOT God…Thirdly, even this someone else is NOT being “explicit” in saying that the message from God to mankind is ended and NO ONE would come with new message or something like that. I respect your faith but these verses are not explicit at all…Read Qur’an and you’ll learn what how God should be “explicit” to HIS creation on important issues …

Read this : “Muhammad is not the father of any of your men,** but he is the Messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets. **Allah has full knowledge of all things. (33:41)”

This is God DIRECTLY telling to HIS creation that Muhammad (SAW) is the last messenger and no one would come after him (seal of Prophets) …This is the beauty of Qur’an that bible sometime lacks …No offense at all.

 

[Kristin234]

Well I didn’t even touch that point…The point I was making was that if you say that you’re god is not the same one of Islam…your religion becomes a joke and is thrown out of the Abrahamic legacy…read my post again …I’ve explained it how…

One of your points:
3- Arab Christians themselve call God as “Allah” and Arabic bible uses word “Allah” in place of God.Yemeni Jews also call God as “Allah” …

 

[Auzer]

One of your points:
3- Arab Christians themselve call God as “Allah” and Arabic bible uses word “Allah” in place of God.Yemeni Jews also call God as “Allah” …

Yup it was …but this was one of my points discussing the main issue which was something else…but anyways leave it

PS … I have replied to your post by editing my last post…See my last post for that.

 

[Wandile]

Well debate.org isn’t a very good idea. I just checked it … What is the purpose of having those LONG subjective debates,when viewers don’t even read them and just cast their “vote” out of bias? Secondly, you should’ve been able to ‘reply’ to my post here. What in the world you were writing that took you THAT much space and now you can’t post it here?:whacky: You can give me an overview atleast of your reply…I mean you can reply to my post here…Don’t go in “details” …Just like I replied to you here …

Also making LONGGGGGGG responses does not ensure the validity of the argument. A good response is one that is objective,to the point and easily readable/comprehensible …

Debate is a brilliant idea because you don’t realise how extensive these topics are. I have to right a lot to cover every aspect of the subject to ensure that you never repeat the same mistakes that you are making now concerning christianity.

Secondly :why I wrote THAT much was because I quoted your long response which took up nearly half of the characters already. The thing is you don’t realize that how futile it would be for me to post a s sentence reply because I’ll simply be going back and forth with you.

Thirdly : debate.org members read the debates, trust me on this. Secondly people are not as bias as you make them out to be because people have been taken off the site for voting ‘bombing’ opponents. At least email me or else if I am to respond here, I need more than one post.

 

[Wandile]

Well from Muslims’ stand point : Qur’an ‘corrects’ the distorted stories of the bible–Like this : **"For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he RESTED, and was REFRESHED. [Exo. 31:1[/COLOR]**7]

Qur’an : We created the heavens and the earth and all between them in six days, nor did any sense of weariness touch us. [50:38]
Now offcourse Christian response comes that this verse of bible is metaphorical or figurative etc but as a Muslim, I can understand the God rested part (figurative use…implying that God stop working etc ) but was “refreshed” …what does that imply?

This is easy to explain : The Hebrew word used in this verse is ‘shabbat’ which simply means he ceased doing what he was doing hence her is the NIV translation (one of the best if not the best)

“It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested (shabbat)” (Exo 31:17)

The bible even teaches God does not get tired so your argument falls flat on its face

“Do you not know? Have you not heard? The LORD is the everlasting God, He will NOT grow tired or weary…” (Isaiah 40:28)