Why do non-Catholic Christians gather on sunday?

[1beleevr]

I wonder if -instead of honoring the Holy Eucharist, if non-Catholics see the “real presence” of Jesus in their fellow man (fellowship)…? This seems to be the most popular reason among our non-catholic Christian friends for gathering on Sunday.

I would be willing to honor this as a major triumph for Truth, even though I disagree that it is an acceptable stopping-point in ones spiritual growth.

Kind of interestng that one can see Jesus in others, in church or elsewhere!

 

[1beleevr]

This is similar to a question I’ve always had.

Of course, Saturday is the Sabbath. But, how do we know when Saturday is? Have we actually been able to keep track of the seventh day from the time of Adam and Eve? Among all the historical disruptions, maybe day keeping came untracked at some point or another. Plus, there have been calendar reforms as well. The most recent being the 11 days inserted into the calendar by Pope Gregory. Hence, the Gregorian calendar as we have it today. Some Protestant countries, such as England, were very late in adopting that calendar, not until the late 1700’s.

P.S. The idea is that Sabbath keeping is not strictly a Christian requirement. It was for the Jews. Christians, who could no longer go to the synagogue, kept Sunday as their day, and met for their eucharistic service and scripture reading on that day. They would read from the prophets or the memoirs of the apostles, and then have the memorial of the Last Supper, and partake of the bread of life.

Let’s see, the Sabbath was instituted before Adam and Eve, and there were no days of the week then, so is the Sabbath on Saturday? God rested on the seventh day, as we are to rest!

 

[1beleevr]

I guess since I can’t figure out the purpose of the thread(very vague), I was asking a question from a different perspective! Do you not wish to answer?

 

[rev_kevin]

Rev, I am not an apologist. I could never do justice to Dr. Hahn’s study of the Mass as it relates to Revelation. As you probably know, Scott Hahn was an anti-Catholic Protestant Minister until he started studying the Early Church Fathers and Revelation. He attended Mass one day and he saw it all there, just as it is described in Revelation.

If you have a specific question, I will try to look it up and get Hahn’s take on it. But “you explain it” is a pretty tall order.

It has been about 4 years since I have read it and at my age, the memory fades a bit.

Ok here is the specific question. How are we to worship God?

 

[Indyann]

Ok here is the specific question. How are we to worship God?

Chapter 14. Christian Assembly on the Lord’s Day

But every Lord’s day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned. For this is that which was spoken by the Lord: In every place and time offer to me a pure sacrifice; for I am a great King, says the Lord, and my name is wonderful among the nations.

From the Didache

As I am on my way out, I do not have time to look up the book right now. However, if you have attended a Mass, and have read the Book of Revelation, you will see the Mass.
The altar, robed clergymen, candles, cloud of witnesses,and on and on.

FROM THE CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH 10 In the liturgy of the Church, God the Father is blessed and adored as the source of all the blessings of creation and salvation with which he has blessed us in his Son, in order to give us the Spirit of filial adoption.

1111 Christ’s work in the liturgy is sacramental: because his mystery of salvation is made present there by the power of his Holy Spirit; because his Body, which is the Church, is like a sacrament (sign and instrument) in which the Holy Spirit dispenses the mystery of salvation; and because through her liturgical actions the pilgrim Church already participates, as by a foretaste, in the heavenly liturgy.

1112 The mission of the Holy Spirit in the liturgy of the Church is to prepare the assembly to encounter Christ; to recall and manifest Christ to the faith of the assembly; to make the saving work of Christ present and active by his transforming power; and to make the gift of communion bear fruit in the Church

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mackbrislawn
But Sunday isn’t the Sabbath.

Of course not!
But Sunday has been the “new Sabbath” since the First Christians!

Who says so?

On Sunday our Lord Christ Jesus resurrected! And I would say this is far more important than the “jewish Sabbath” because without Jesus we would still be lost and away from God!
You see, we are no Jews, but Christians!

Esdra

There is no such thing as a “jewish Sabbath”. Ex20:10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God.

 

[TEPO]

Actually, the different role played by a priest and a minister interests me. Here are a few thoughts, not meant to be facts.

You can talk about ministers all you want… But when I created this thread, I designed it to be SPECIFICALLY about “non-Catholic” Christians… We should refrain from mentioning anything “Catholic”.

Traditionally, the **Catholic priest **was much more in charge of his parish than the Protestant minister. The minister often was selected by the people and could be fired if he did not match the demands of the congregation. In contrast, priests were assigned by the **Bishop **and up until fairly recent times they were very much in charge - sometimes tyrants. I recall how one priest, in particular, would regularly scold the congregation, something of a dictator. I presume some of his power came from the perception that **he could forgive sins **as well as repeat the words involved in transubstantiation. The idea that he was the representative of Christ at mass was impressive, too. I have heard horror stories of priests who ordered nuns around as though they were serfs.

Protestant denominations differ somewhat in all this. In Methodism, for example, the Bishop appoints pastors, also, through a local church committee can screen candidates. The congregation also holds the purse strings (and counted the money) which gives it added clout. In **Catholic churches priests **often were completely in charge of offerings, which had led to some serious financial irregularities, at least in this corner of the USA. This has changed somewhat since **Vatican II**.

What has happened recently is that more and more 'non-denominational' mega-churches have spring up. Often these Protestant churches center around a personality, a pastor with charisma and relatedd skills that help attract a large congregation. These can easily become little 'kingdoms' with the senior pastor the king. This tends to contradict the democracy that has characterized much of Protestantism since the Reformation. 

 Of course, this doesn't mean that members are afraid of the pastor, as **Catholics** sometimes were. In fact, factions may develop in these large churches - power struggles, usually, but maybe theological squabbles (or camouflaged as theological squabbles) - sending one group off, angry, many times launching a new and even rival congregation. This is one reason there are so many Protestant denominations. 

 It is true that **Catholic** congregations, at least in theory, are more altar-centered. Free church Protestants in particular have always been suspicious of a lot of prayer-book liturgy, afraid that it becomes a robotic ritual with little spiritual depth and susceptible to superstition.. **That's how the expression 'hocus pocus' got its start. That was a mimicking of the Latin mass**,  (:eek:)  depicting it as an alien ritual in a foreign tongue, closely aligned to magic. The idea that the prayers offered by a **priest** can change bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ is very alienating to nearly all Protestants. 

 Protestants today are split on several levels. One is in the area of miracles. Millions of liberal Protestants - mainstream, usually - are wary of miracles. They see them as perhaps paganish, irrational, contrary to science and common sense. But among evangelicals, especially Pentecostalists, **they and Catholics **both embrace miracles. God is always speaking to this or that pastor, miraculous healings are commonplace, and ministers often convince the faithful that they will prosper in many ways (including financially), particularly if they 'plant a seed' - another way of saying 'send us money!'. Just how many of these preachers are sincere and how many are fake is a question difficult to answer. 

** Traditional Catholics**, of course, accept the idea - for example - that **St. Padre Pio could both levitate and bilocate, along with his numerous other miracles.** And true believers are quick to accept thousands of other miracles, big and small. Many **modern Catholics **are turned off by such claims and some have joined mainline denominations - Episcopalians, Methodists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, UCC, etc - where many more doubters belong and members feel free to accept or reject miracles.

Again, lets not talk about Catholic things…

 

[MrStain]

Why did I gather with other Christians on Sunday when I was a non-Catholic? Mmm… That’s what we always did. Plus, there was good food and fellowship.

 

[TEPO]

Ok here is the specific question. How are we to worship God?

No reversals please… :tsktsk:

This thread was created as an opportunity for non-catholic Christians to explain the why’s on why they assemble every week. So far I got -preaching, and fellowship. (while only preaching was shown to be biblical).

 

[Bluegoat]

No reversals please… :tsktsk:

This thread was created as an opportunity for non-catholic Christians to explain the why’s on why they assemble every week. So far I got -preaching, and fellowship. (while only preaching was shown to be biblical).

Well, what about the Bible says so - many people have mentioned that. To pray together as a community. To hear God’s Word. I’m not sure why you think fellowship isn’t Biblical?

 

[panner]

**Why do non-Catholic Christians gather on sunday? **

This is why:

24And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

Hebrews 10:24-25

 

[Roy5]

TEPO

 Hm! If my brain is functioning, and if I understood your question correctly, I think I tried to offer a variety of reasons in post #70 under this thread. I'm sure the reasons I offered could be supplemented, but as someone who has visited many different churches, temples, synagogues, mosques, etc., over the years I rather think I understand how most Protestants think. 

 They vary enormously, of course. If you go to a typical Methodist or Presbyterian or UCC Church you will likely hear a sermon that is less focused on specific Bible passages, more likely focused on challenges in our daily lives or perhaps a current issue in the media. If you go to a Baptist or Pentecostal Church, on the other hand, the sermon will be heavily Biblical and usually fundamentalist. 

 In the same vein, Episcopalians and Lutherans will experience liturgy not all that different from Roman Catholics, while Presbyterians and Methodists are accustomed to less ritual, and Baptists, Pentecostalists and others will be non-liturgical. 

 Music will vary considerably, too, though (like Catholics today) there may be a service geared to traditionalists and one with guitars and praise songs.

 Protestants, like Catholics, go to church for a spiritual experience. Catholicism emphasizes the Eucharist. Some Protestants do, too - again, especially Episcopalians and Lutherans - but more often Protestants will be inspired by the sermon, by beloved hymns and anthems, by prayer time, and by the warmth and closeness of the church community. Most Protestant congregations I know are small compared to Catholic churches in this area, and they often are like extended family groups, with a variety of even smaller groups that meet between Sundays - Bible study groups, women groups, men groups, youth groups, prayer gatherings, book studies, etc.

 Happy New Year!

 

[The_Sentry]

I want to know why people gather if not to celebrate the Eucharist?

Because we’re gluttons for punishment

 

[cooterhein]

As you said in post 196, Jharek, the purpose of this thread is…?

Surely it’s not to chide (some) non-Catholics for regarding the “highest goal of Christians gathering together” as something besides the Eucharist. Not all Christians see the Eucharist or any other sacrament as the highest goal. I believe this was covered way back in post number 1. You should have moved well past that by this point.

Maybe you can start another thread where the stated purpose is for you to tell non-Catholics that they’re doing church wrong.

 

[JustaServant]

So far I got -preaching, and fellowship. (while only preaching was shown to be biblical).

In fairness to the NCs Tepo “fellowship” is found in the book of Acts as one of the four acts the first Church remained ‘steadfastly’ in. But I have a feeling it meant something more than coffee and dounuts after church.

 

[cooterhein]

In fairness to the NCs Tepo “fellowship” is found in the book of Acts as one of the four acts the first Church remained ‘steadfastly’ in. But I have a feeling it meant something more than coffee and dounuts after church.

There are a pretty good number of Protestant churches that consistently fail in taking fellowship beyond this point. They do have a bit of a reputation for that. However, when that does happen, people in leadership tend to get a little frustrated with that and try to do something about it. The stated purpose of Christian fellowship is not “Let’s get together and have some yum yums!” The stated purpose has more to do with discipleship, and while that goal isn’t always achieved, that is the goal.

And now that I think about it, last time I attended something besides a Protestant church was when I went to a Greek Orthodox church. Guess what happened after the service- coffee, donuts, and 45 minutes of fellowship. Maybe it’s a Greek thing, maybe it’s an American thing, I don’t know how long they were doing that for…certainly nothing wrong with it, so long as that’s not the extent of Christian fellowship. Food and talking after church isn’t exclusive to Protestants, though, and I’m sure you won’t see as much of it if you aren’t in America.

 

[TEPO]

Why did I gather with other Christians on Sunday when I was a non-Catholic? Mmm… That’s what we always did. Plus, there was good food and fellowship.

Okay, I’ve heard the mention of good food several times now…

The vision I’m picturing in my mind is something similar to a celebration or pep-rally, where Christians get psyched up over their victory at-hand. I imagine that there is group worship where thanks is given to God for His saving grace. I also picture everyone giving each other extra attention, as a form of supporting charity.

If this this right, then this form of worship would resemble to me, something like sport fans offering praise to their home team -such as during a college football pep-rally. Only difference is that the fans are also the players.

Try this week after week how could anyone not be on fire.

Most non-Catholic Christian gatherings seem to be based on strengthening faith… The common consensus seems to revolve around the concept that souls are saved by faith alone… The concept of sacrifice seems absent.

 

[1beleevr]

I guess the bottom line is this: Does it really matter why non-catholics gather on Sunday, or Wednesday, or any other day for that matter? It’s no skin off catholics’ back, or is it? That’s why I say, in many ways, it is a dumb question! Most noncatholics who have responded, have said it is to worship our God and to fellowship. That should be a sufficient answer; but then there is a discussion about eucharist, or no eucharist!

 

[Esdra]

I guess the bottom line is this: Does it really matter why non-catholics gather on Sunday, or Wednesday, or any other day for that matter? It’s no skin off catholics’ back, or is it? That’s why I say, in many ways, it is a dumb question! Most noncatholics who have responded, have said it is to worship our God and to fellowship. That should be a sufficient answer; but then there is a discussion about eucharist, or no eucharist!

and you forgot to mention to listen to the word of God and having it explained in a sermon. (compare 2nd Helvetic Confession - Chapter XXII)
Isn’t that the core-heart of most Protestant services?

Esdra

 

[JustaServant]

There are a pretty good number of Protestant churches that consistently fail in taking fellowship beyond this point. They do have a bit of a reputation for that. However, when that does happen, people in leadership tend to get a little frustrated with that and try to do something about it. The stated purpose of Christian fellowship is not “Let’s get together and have some yum yums!” The stated purpose has more to do with discipleship, and while that goal isn’t always achieved, that is the goal.

And now that I think about it, last time I attended something besides a Protestant church was when I went to a Greek Orthodox church. Guess what happened after the service- coffee, donuts, and 45 minutes of fellowship. Maybe it’s a Greek thing, maybe it’s an American thing, I don’t know how long they were doing that for…certainly nothing wrong with it, so long as that’s not the extent of Christian fellowship. Food and talking after church isn’t exclusive to Protestants, though, and I’m sure you won’t see as much of it if you aren’t in America.

According to Vine’s Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words:

A-1,Noun,2842,koinonia>
(a) “communion, fellowship, sharing in common” (from koinos, “common”), is translated “communion” in 1 Cor. 10:16; Philem. 1:6, RV, “fellowship,” for AV, “communication;” it is most frequently translated “fellowship;” (b) “that which is the outcome of fellowship, a contribution,” e.g., Rom. 15:26; 2 Cor. 8:4. See COMMUNION, CONTRIBUTION, etc.

It is possible the early Church simply meant that they continued steadfastly in what they had in common: the worship of God. They continued meeting together for that purpose.

Thank God for the internet, I don’t have to flip thru a hugh book.