Why do non catholics dislike Mother Mary?

[izoid]

I have already said I don’t try to reconcil any interpretations. It’s not my job. I also don’t think I leave it to chance. I believe the Holy Spirit inspired the Bible and if He’s in me, He can guide me to understandings. I also know I won’t know perfectly until Heaven.

So, you believe God gave us His word so that we could maybe know Him partially, imperfectly, and that the rest will be given to us in heaven?

 

[tweetymom]

The Holy Spirit inspired the Holy Bible and tha t settles it for me. Now if you want to believe other wise then it is your belief. And when we meet Jesus we will all know the truth.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I have already said I don’t try to reconcil any interpretations. It’s not my job. I also don’t think I leave it to chance. I believe the Holy Spirit inspired the Bible and if He’s in me, He can guide me to understandings. I also know I won’t know perfectly until Heaven.

Then someone is just wrong. I mean, that’s the same thing thousands of denominations are saying. It becomes millions and billions of people when it’s applied to each individual.

So, which one do we trust to have the correct interpretation? Or maybe you think we should avoid all Churches?

 

[Dokimas]

[SIGN]Doki: Please show us the Bible verses that tells us a person won’t be let into Heaven if they don’t accept the CC and the one and only church founded by God.[/SIGN]​

Izoid,

That is a request for ProdicalSon. He responded. We cleared it up. There’s no accusation on my part.​

BTW, do you think I wrestle the Scriptures to my own destruction?

 

[veritas4Christ]

there is a difference betwene having your eyes open and seeing things that arent even there. If you say the Holy Spirit lead you to give food to the hungry, I say great! if He tells you that You should pray for the sick, I say go for it! But when you say He is telling you to worship Mary in addition to God… Then I say its time to question what spirit you hearing from.

And I say when your own imaginery version of the Holy Spirit tells you it’s okay to twist the beliefs of others to suit your own personal beliefs, both in support and attack, then I say it’s time to face reality and deal with your need to feed the hate within yourself.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

The Holy Spirit inspired the Holy Bible and tha t settles it for me. Now if you want to believe other wise then it is your belief. And when we meet Jesus we will all know the truth.

We agree, the Holy Spirit inspired the written word of God. Then He inspired the men of His Church to define the canon of the New Testament. By the way, that was the Catholic Church that defined the canon of the New Testament.

Now, since all one has to do is believe their Bible, what did 400 years of people do, before the Bible came together to be the one book we know it as today?

 

[wwolverine]

MARY AND OTHER CHILDREN

 I have wondered how Catholic-approved translations of the gospels handle Matt 1:25. My New English Bible says that Joseph "took Mary home to be his wife, but had no intercourse with her until her son was born. And he named the child Jesus."

 The King James Version says  that Joseph "knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son, and he called his name Jesus." 

  The New International Version states that Joseph "had no union with her until she gave birth to a son...." 

 The Living Bible says that "she remained a virgin until her Son was born...."

  The Revised Standard Version reads that Joseph "knew her not until she had borne a son...."

   Phillips Modern English translation reads that Joseph "married Mary, but had no intercourse with her until she had given birth to a son...."

   All these suggest that Mary and Joseph lived as a normal married couple after Jesus was born, sharing physical intimacy, which suggests that they could have had additional children. I guess I don't understand why the Catholic position is to fiercely maintain that Mary remained a life-long virgin. The verse certainly doesn't suggest that, and without mentioning the references to the brothers of Jesus elsewhere in the gospels. And why is it better to live as a life-long married virgin than to be a married woman and have normal relations with your husband? I guess I'll never get that. They seem more like a "Holy Family' if they lived as a healthy, bonafide family. Besides, it seems to make normal sexual relations within marriage somehow inferior to perpetual virginity, which to me is in contradiction to God's first command in Genesis: "Be fruitful and multiply."

  Mary certainly deserves our affection and gratitude, but has Catholicism carried veneration of Mary too far? That is the issue between Catholicism and Protestantism.

  Merry Christmas to all (since we have 11 days left) and a blessed New Year to Catholics, Protestants and people of every creed, color and country.

Although a Catholic I use NIV so am not sure what the Catholic Bible says, Its good that you when thru different translations to let us know what all those above bibles say.

I am sure you must have read them all or just checked the above to bring your point of view to tell us that Mother Mary had many more children. So it would be nice if you would also look in this and tell us know your point of view.

John 19: 26 When Jesus saw his mother there, and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to his mother, “Dear woman, here is your son,” 27 and to the disciple, “Here is your mother.” From that time on, this disciple took her into his home.

Why would Jesus give His Mother to someone else when He had brothers and sisters?

Awaiting your response and Merry Christmas to you too.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

To be part of the CHURCH is necessary for salvation.

Anyone who has salvation is apart of THE church but they may or may not be apart of your church.

 

[izoid]

[SIGN]Doki: Please show us the Bible verses that tells us a person won’t be let into Heaven if they don’t accept the CC and the one and only church founded by God.[/SIGN]​

Izoid,

That is a request for ProdicalSon. He responded. We cleared it up. There’s no accusation on my part.​

BTW, do you think I wrestle the Scriptures to my own destruction?

So you understand that the Catholic Church does not teach what you said, correct?

I don’t think you wrestle with scripture to your own destruction. I am saddened that you feel you need to guess at whether your interpretation is correct or not though. I know guess is a strong word but when you don’t know, you are guessing. Why not let God’s Church instruct you as to what is correct?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.​

1 John 2:
26 These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you.
27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.​

I am responsible for me. I will have no one to blame except me. If I’m correct, I have only the Holy Spirit to thank for the things I’ve understood correctly and applied to my life.​

BTW, join the crowd with those of us who have made point or asked question that have not been answered.

2 Ti 2:15 is not telling you to study scriptures, but to study yourself.

2 Peter 3:16 tells us not to interpret for ourselves, or do you think the word of God contradicts itself?

Now, provide scriptures telling us to interpret for ourselves, of course that definately puts the Bible in a contradictory position, wouldn’t it?

 

[Dokimas]

Then someone is just wrong. I mean, that’s the same thing thousands of denominations are saying. It becomes millions and billions of people when it’s applied to each individual.

So, which one do we trust to have the correct interpretation? Or maybe you think we should avoid all Churches?

As I pointed out weeks ago, there are core beliefs that separate Christianity from all other ‘religions.’ All true Christians believe specific things. I don’t know the whole list, I’d say only God does, especially seeing the it is only He who can look into one’s heart where all true beliefs reside.​

I would say and belief upon which salvation would be determined would fall into this category: there is a God, Jesus died for our sins, we are sinners, etc. For those who never get to hear about Jesus, God’s grace will be sufficient as He knows the heart of each one.​

Would you say wheter or not Mary was a perpetual virgin is a salvation issue? Would you say that believing that Jesus started His church on Peter and that the CC is the one and only true church are salvation issues? What about ‘baptism’?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

If the Bible is the sole truth from God, tell me why did the inspired word of God tell us the Church is the pillar and ground of truth instead of scriptures? Why does the inspired word of God tell us the manifold wisdom of God can be made through the Church instead of scriptures?

Why does the Old Testament give us an example of people needing scriptures explained to them in Nehemiah 8?

Why does the New Testament give us the example of Philip having to explain scriptures to the Ethiopian if all one needs is scriptures to understand them?

 

[Dokimas]

2 Ti 2:15 is not telling you to study scriptures, but to study yourself.

2 Peter 3:16 tells us not to interpret for ourselves, or do you think the word of God contradicts itself?

Now, provide scriptures telling us to interpret for ourselves, of course that definately puts the Bible in a contradictory position, wouldn’t it?

Jeremiah 17:9 says my heart is deceptive and desperately wicked how can I know it. I don’t want to study myself. I’m a looser. I want to study the Word of God and by the Holy Spirit, I am lifted from myself to be like Jesus.​

Look at the context: Paul says the result of studying to show one’s self approved is to be able to divide the Word of God correctly.​

I never said anyone should interpret for self. That’s the Holy Spirits job. Ours is to pay attention.

 

[Dokimas]

If the Bible is the sole truth from God, tell me why did the inspired word of God tell us the Church is the pillar and ground of truth instead of scriptures? Good question. I have not looked into the matter yet. I’m sure God’s church has an important role. The real question is whether or not the CC is the one and only church. Why does the inspired word of God tell us the manifold wisdom of God can be made through the Church instead of scriptures? ** I’m not aware of such a verse. I assume you mean: ]Eph 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God**, ** I’m not sure that means the manifold wisdom of God is only revealed by the CC.**
Why does the Old Testament give us an example of people needing scriptures explained to them in Nehemiah 8? Did the people have the Holy Spirit then?

Why does the New Testament give us the example of Philip having to explain scriptures to the Ethiopian if all one needs is scriptures to understand them? Did the Etheopian have the Holy Spirit then?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

As I pointed out weeks ago, there are core beliefs that separate Christianity from all other ‘religions.’ All true Christians believe specific things. I don’t know the whole list, I’d say only God does, especially seeing the it is only He who can look into one’s heart where all true beliefs reside.​

I would say and belief upon which salvation would be determined would fall into this category: there is a God, Jesus died for our sins, we are sinners, etc. For those who never get to hear about Jesus, God’s grace will be sufficient as He knows the heart of each one.​

Would you say wheter or not Mary was a perpetual virgin is a salvation issue? Would you say that believing that Jesus started His church on Peter and that the CC is the one and only true church are salvation issues? What about ‘baptism’?

There is only one who can judge each of us…

However, I would have to wonder why someone would think their version of a Church would be better than the one Christ built upon Peter. Was there sinful men in the Church’s history? Most assuredly! But if the gates of hell cannot prevail against Christ’s Church, can mere sinful men?

I have to wonder why some would go to such great lengths to demean the mother of Christ before those who believe she was full of grace, as scriptures state. Why do Protestants beat on that subject so hard? Am I less a Christian because I believe the vessel of God was pure, as was the ark of the covenant? Christ was the new covenant, why would God all of a sudden decide an impure vessel would do for the new and everlasting covenant?

Protestants beat the ‘it ain’t in the Bible’ drum too much and can’t answer simple questions like why does the inspired word of God tell us the Church is the pillar and ground of truth instead of scriptures? All you need is the Bible, is NOT in the Bible. It is a man made tradition. Why does the inspired word of God tell us to hold to the traditions learned, whether by word or epistle?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Jeremiah 17:9 says my heart is deceptive and desperately wicked how can I know it. I don’t want to study myself. I’m a looser. I want to study the Word of God and by the Holy Spirit, I am lifted from myself to be like Jesus.​

Look at the context: Paul says the result of studying to show one’s self approved is to be able to divide the Word of God correctly.

The problem is, where does Christ tell us the ‘word of God’ was only written? Why didn’t Christ write anything? Why didn’t Christ command anything to be written?

BECAUSE HE WAS THE WORD.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

The real question is whether or not the CC is the one and only church.

Show me any writings from Christians through the years, prior to the 1500s that were not written by Catholics. Show me any secular history recorded that states other Churches than the Catholic Church.

To deny the Catholic Church, is to say Christ left 1500 years of people without a Church.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

THey have to tear down Catholicism and our love for and devotions to Mary are an easy target in their minds. It is amazing how these denominations feel it so necessary to judge Catholics and their beliefs. They are the breakaway element from the norm and they throw around accusations like our beliefs are the new ones.

these beliefs were either foreign to the new testament authors or they were not important enough to be mentioned. In either case they should be rejected.

 

[PRmerger]

As I pointed out weeks ago, there are core beliefs that separate Christianity from all other ‘religions.’ All true Christians believe specific things.

And as we pointed out to you, Dokimas, these “core beliefs” that you claim are necessary to believe as Christians are extra-biblical. They are a man-made doctrine that’s arbitrary, fallible, non-authoritative, and subject to any particular pastor’s whims.

For there is no list in Scripture of what’s a “core belief”.

I’ve been on this forum for a long time now and I’ve seen about a dozen different permutations, ostensibly by bible Christians, as to what’s a core belief.

The reason there is no common understanding about what’s a “core belief” is because Scripture gives us no indication that “core beliefs” are necessary to be a Christian.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

these beliefs were either foreign to the new testament authors or they were not important enough to be mentioned. In either case they should be rejected.

Or the beliefs were widespread and not in danger. Certain beliefs required Church decrees to be protected as heritics came out with false messages. We can show you numerous writings from early Church fathers that believed.

So if something was not written about, it should be rejected?

Joh 21:25 But there are also many other things which Jesus did which, if they were written every one, the world itself. I think, would not be able to contain the books that should be written.