Why do non catholics dislike Mother Mary?

[Prodigal_Son1]

You know better than that question. You know that the 27 books of the NT were letters written in the 1st century AD. You also know they were copied and passed around.

Ok Dokimas, how were they copied and passed around? Letters were sent to individual Churches, who placed great value on them. These individual Churches were great distances apart. There were many other letters and epistles written that were not included in the New Testament. Who decided which were to be included and which were not?

Now, it’s a shorter period, but it is estimated that those letters and epistle were written between 60AD and 110AD. What about those people in those years? How did they know all they needed to know if the Bible is the sole authority?

Where is the list of letters and epistles listed that were to be included in the New Testament?

The Church existed prior to the Bible and the Bible came, from God, through His Church. It wasn’t the other way around.

 

[SHW]

So at the end of our life are we judged on our own righteousness or on His?

We prove our faith in Him by our righteous works we do for Him. We must do this work (the Father’s Will) for which we were created to do in order to inherit eternal life. Matthew 7:21 On Judgment Day, we are not judged on our faith alone, we are judged according to our works. Revelation 2:23, Matthew 16:26-27

Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. This is not a suggestion; it is a command.

Romans 2:5-8
But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,

Galatians 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.

James 2:21-26
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[d] works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Philippians 2:12
Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;

We prove our faith in Jesus by our works of love we do for Him. Galatians 5:6

 

[Dokimas]

He knows, he just won’t admit.

He’s quite a nice person. I love his attitude most often. I can only guess that it’s posts like this one and another one recently that makes him a ‘prodical son’.​

PS I hope he has a sense of humor.

 

[SHW]

That presumes Peter is the chief Steward of the Fathers household, but God the Father says it has been given to Jesus, the Son. So there goes your theory and there goes your misinterpretation of Isaiah 22, which clearly is a reference to Christ and is supported almost verbatim by Rev. 3 - see Philadelphia.

If you read the verses carefully, then you will see God working through Moses, where God is the authority, but who cares about the details, that is where the devil lies.
I think it is best to get the true interpreter of Scripture, which is the HS.

How many authorities are their in heaven? Doesn’t matter how you put it; the number is one. By definition of the Greek the term used for “key” means “a key”; so either there are multiple ways and authorities in to the Kingdom of God OR there is one key and one authority and the Apostles each received a key to the Kingdom of God. Doesn’t matter to me if you don’t see it; I will guarantee you that one day you will see it and know it.

"Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, 18 and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and*** I have the keys of death and of Hades.

---

Here is the only other example of the use of the word “keys”, which means “a key” and since is is with the “s”, then there is more than one in view. A key of death and a key of hades = 2 separate keys or a key + a key = keys

Now here is the use of “a key” (below) where there is a key related to a singular object, as in Matthew “Kingdom of God” = singular object, which has to be a single key and the personal singular pronoun, is mistaken as Peter rather than the only correct grammatical context, which would be “each of you”, which is each of the Apostles.

then the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star from heaven which had fallen to the earth; and the key of the bottomless pit was given to him.

For Jesus to just give Peter the key of the Kingdom of God, it would have to phrased just like that or I will give you the key to the Kingdom of God, but since it uses keys to the Kingdom of God, which is the singular object of the key, which must be sigular and the pronoun must also be singular.

This is why most Protestants disagree and I’ll bet many Catholic scholars know this to be true, but cannot admit it because your church is infallible and to admit something as large as this would utterly destroy all credibility and that isn’t going to happen. Some thing with the latria, dulia and hyperdulia, The council of Nicaea pronounced anathema on the worship of statues, saints and relics, but a little later a Pope, forget which one, called that aspect “nonsense” (paraphrased); therefore it was allowed and has remained; yet condemned by a Council you all refer to often.

We will agree to disagree, okay?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

He knows, he just won’t admit.

That’s the same I could say about you, but it doesn’t make what you say true. In fact it’s almost the same as calling someone a liar.

 

[Monica4316]

I was always wondering… if the dead in Christ are in heaven right now, why is there a need for resurrection?

And please, if it has already been responded be kind, and tell me approximately in what post, because there are +1000 in this thread.

the point of the Resurrection is so that our bodies would be raised to new life we were made to be both body and soul. Death separates the two. In Heaven, we’ll be alive in Christ but only in our souls. Our bodies will be dead on earth. In the resurrection, we’ll get our bodies back, and they’ll be immortal.

What about the Orthodox church and the 100,000 Protestant denominations today that refute it?

that’s today. In the early Church, the Christians knew what the Apostles taught cause they were obedient to their teachings through the Bishops

I read an early Church text that says this… that the early Christians knew they were in the true Church because of Apostolic Succession

Lots of groups over the yrs have misused the Bible and might I add, most likely to their own destruction and the destruction of their followers.​

The term ‘Trinity’ may have come from an early church council, but the idea came from the teachings of Jesus and the early (1st century) disciples/apostles.

yes, but what I mean is that it was debated by heretical groups and so the Church clarified the true teaching in a council. If it wasn’t 'for the council, many people might have started believing the false teachings. In the early Church, the teachings of the Bishops and the councils were considered pretty important, as they are today in the Catholic Church

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I’m sure you know this is a silly argument. If the Father is God and Jesus is God and the Holy Spirit is God and there are none other that is God, the term ''Trinity" is perfectly useful in understanding the Godhead (I found this term in the Bible).

But it’s not clearly and explicitly stated.

There seems to be a bit of a double-standard here. Admittedly, I browse through the contraception part of this thread without reading it in detail, but it certainly appeared that some said contraception was ok because the Bible didn’t speak against it. Now we believe Mary was ever virgin, but we shouldn’t be believing that because it’s not stated in scriptures…

 

[izoid]

It didn’t happen in this thread like it does in all of the others though. This time there were more of us than they counted upon upholding and fighting for the word of God and the truth.

Let me apologize to you Justy, I thought you were a protestant.

But since you are upholding the truth and God’s Word you must be a Catholic.

 

[Justy90]

Let me apologize to you Justy, I thought you were a protestant.

But since you are upholding the truth and God’s Word you must be a Catholic.

So then Protestants don’t uphold God’s word?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Are you saying that the authors of the NT didn’t write their books until 400 years after Christ’s death? What did they do?? Did they all get together and write them all at the same time while attending mass?

You really have a problem with Catholics. It’s seemingly apparent through your posts.

I have articulated it a bit more, if you would please read it above. It was posted previously in this thread, but it seems like you don’t consider that you have to read everything, if anything, a Catholic is posting.

You used the term ‘abject ignorance’ and now seem to ask an assuming question on your part which appears to smell of deliberate ignorance.

 

[carpentercb]

To all,

Who cares if Mary was a virgin after she gave birth. Wanna know why it wasn’t written? Because it doesn’t matter. Will I be at judgement and God say “sorry, you didn’t believe Mary was a virgin after giving birth”. This is just silly. Who cares?! This isn’t the crux of my salvation. And if you think that only members of the Catholic church are going to Heaven because they are The Church in bible, you are sadly mistaken. The church are those who obey his commandments as stated in Revelation.

Respectfully,

Chris

 

[Dokimas]

But it’s not clearly and explicitly stated.

There seems to be a bit of a double-standard here. Admittedly, I browse through the contraception part of this thread without reading it in detail, but it certainly appeared that some said contraception was ok because the Bible didn’t speak against it. Now we believe Mary was ever virgin, but we shouldn’t be believing that because it’s not stated in scriptures…

Is it clear from the Bible that the Father is God?​

Is it clear from the Bible that Jesus is God?​

Is it clear from the Bible that the Holy Spirit is God?​

Is it clear from the Bible that God is ONE?​

Are there any other persons in the Bible designated as part of the Godhead?​

There are definately verses brought to the attention of all who read them that reveals Mary was not, most likely, a perpetually a virgin. It has nothing to do with the Bible not saying she was a perpetual virgin.​

One could, however, say (and I’m sure I’ve pointed this out) that if it’s such an important understanding, one would think the Holy Spirit would make a big issue out of it either throught Jesus, or though the other writers of the NT. I realize this is my opinion.

 

[carpentercb]

By the way, those commandments which are in the Ark in Heaven and probably very important, include remembering the Sabbath and not worshiping carved/venerated images of anything on earth or in Heaven. Also, I have the same question. Why would we need a Resurrection if you instantly go to Heaven when you die?

Respectfully,

Chris

 

[Justy90]

You really have a problem with Catholics. It’s seemingly apparent through your posts.

I have articulated it a bit more, if you would please read it above. It was posted previously in this thread, but it seems like you don’t consider that you have to read everything, if anything, a Catholic is posting.

You used the term ‘abject ignorance’ and now seem to ask an assuming question on your part which appears to smell of deliberate ignorance.

You want to sidestep anything that points to the facts in particilar. I wasn’t speaking of the Bible as we have it today, I was talking about the individual writings of St. Paul, Peter, the Gospel writers etc. You seem to want to make it look like there was nothing before the Bible so therefore all Protestants are dead to rights on there never being any authority before this except for what Roman Catholics want to self proclaim. I’m not going there with you, sorry.

 

[tweetymom]

To all,

Who cares if Mary was a virgin after she gave birth. Wanna know why it wasn’t written? Because it doesn’t matter. Will I be at judgement and God say “sorry, you didn’t believe Mary was a virgin after giving birth”. This is just silly. Who cares?! This isn’t the crux of my salvation. And if you think that only members of the Catholic church are going to Heaven because they are The Church in bible, you are sadly mistaken. The church are those who obey his commandments as stated in Revelation.

Respectfully,

Chris

Good post and I say amen to you, and their will be all kinds of people at the judgement. No yours or mine salvation does not rely on Mary being a Virgin or not. Such a great post brother in Christ.

 

[Justy90]

Good post and I say amen to you, and their will be all kinds of people at the judgement. No yours or mine salvation does not rely on Mary being a Virgin or not. Such a great post brother in Christ.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

To all,

Who cares if Mary was a virgin after she gave birth. Wanna know why it wasn’t written? Because it doesn’t matter. Will I be at judgement and God say “sorry, you didn’t believe Mary was a virgin after giving birth”. This is just silly. Who cares?! This isn’t the crux of my salvation. And if you think that only members of the Catholic church are going to Heaven because they are The Church in bible, you are sadly mistaken. The church are those who obey his commandments as stated in Revelation.

Respectfully,

Chris

Chris,

You are striking on a point I’ve tried to make several times. Does beleiving in the perpetual virginity have any impact on one’s salvation, one way or the other?

And, if you read through this thread, you’ll see that I believe we, Catholics and Protestants, are all connected through their faith and love in Christ. I’ve elaborated on it more in detail on previous posts.

This attacking issues that have no impact on one’s salvation only separates us further and I think we both can agree, that’s not what scriptures teach us.

**Joh 10:16 And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd.

Eph 4:3 eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Eph 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call,
Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all.

Rom 16:17 I appeal to you, brethren, to take note of those who create dissensions and difficulties, in opposition to the doctrine which you have been taught; avoid them.

1Co 1:10 I appeal to you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree and that there be no dissensions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.

Php 2:2 complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind.

Rom 15:5 May the God of steadfastness and encouragement grant you to live in such harmony with one another, in accord with Christ Jesus,
Rom 15:6 that together you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Joh 17:17 Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth.
Joh 17:18 As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world.
Joh 17:19 And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth.
Joh 17:20 "I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word,
Joh 17:21 that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Joh 17:22 The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one,
Joh 17:23 I in them and thou in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them even as thou hast loved me.

1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body–Jews or Greeks, slaves or free–and all were made to drink of one Spirit.

Rom 12:4 For as in one body we have many members, and all the members do not have the same function,
Rom 12:5 so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.

Eph 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call,

Col 3:15 And let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in the one body. And be thankful.**

It would be more useful, and I believe more charitable, to search out what we have in common, as opposed to ‘picking’ at everything where we differ. Picking at these type issues is not really discussing theology, unless someone feels the issues have an impact on a person’s chance of salvation.

 

[SHW]

Or they walked away from Jesus because they thought Jesus was being literal. Jews are not to drink human blood or eat human flesh.

That is exactly why they walked away from Him. They knew that He was being literal! Did Jesus call them back and say, “You misunderstood, I really did not mean that literally.”???

NO.

John 6:66
From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more.

He did not call them back to make them understand differently than what they thought He said. He let them go on their way. He cannot change Truth to please them because He is Truth.

The Paschal Lamb, (sin offering) must be eaten. Jesus is the Paschal Lamb of the New Covenant. Revelation 5:12

The first Passover/Pasch:

Old Covenant:
Exodus 12:3-8
Speak to all the congregation of Israel, saying: ‘On the tenth of this month every man shall take for himself a lamb, according to the house of his father, a lamb for a household. 4 And if the household is too small for the lamb, let him and his neighbor next to his house take it according to the number of the persons; according to each man’s need you shall make your count for the lamb. 5 Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year. You may take it from the sheep or from the goats. 6 Now you shall keep it until the fourteenth day of the same month. Then the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it at twilight. 7 And they shall take some of the blood and put it on the two doorposts and on the lintel of the houses where they eat it. 8 Then they shall eat the flesh on that night; roasted in fire, with unleavened bread and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.

The Passover feast is celebrated yearly after its institution in remembrance of the first Passover.

Leviticus 23:4-6
These are the feasts of the LORD, holy convocations which you shall proclaim at their appointed times. 5 On the fourteenth day of the first month at twilight is the LORD’s Passover. 6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the LORD; seven days you must eat unleavened bread.

Mark 14:12
Now on the first day of Unleavened Bread, when they killed the Passover lamb, His disciples said to Him, “Where do You want us to go and prepare, that You may eat the Passover?”

Jesus celebrated Passover every year.

New Covenant:
John 6:54-56
Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Is it clear from the Bible that the Father is God?​

Is it clear from the Bible that Jesus is God?​

Is it clear from the Bible that the Holy Spirit is God?​

Is it clear from the Bible that God is ONE?​

Are there any other persons in the Bible designated as part of the Godhead?​

There are definately verses brought to the attention of all who read them that reveals Mary was not, most likely, a perpetually a virgin. It has nothing to do with the Bible not saying she was a perpetual virgin.​

One could, however, say (and I’m sure I’ve pointed this out) that if it’s such an important understanding, one would think the Holy Spirit would make a big issue out of it either throught Jesus, or though the other writers of the NT. I realize this is my opinion.

We believe the Bible is the inspired word of God. We also believe, through Holy Spirit guidance, that the men of the Church defined the canon of scriptures.

Somethings not explicitly stated in scriptures are supported through the oral tradition. Scriptures, themselves, show us several examples of oral tradition.

There are instructions, written about in the scriptures, where Christ was not speaking to a multitude and only to His Apostles, that He gave authority too. There are alot of Protestants that read everything as if it was written directly to them. This usurps the authority Christ, Himself, set up. At least that’s what I get from my interpretation of scriptures and as you say, I realize this is my opinion.

 

[Dokimas]

We believe the Bible is the inspired word of God. We also believe, through Holy Spirit guidance, that the men of the Church defined the canon of scriptures.

Somethings not explicitly stated in scriptures are supported through the oral tradition. Scriptures, themselves, show us several examples of oral tradition.

There are instructions, written about in the scriptures, where Christ was not speaking to a multitude and only to His Apostles, that He gave authority too. There are alot of Protestants that read everything as if it was written directly to them. This usurps the authority Christ, Himself, set up. At least that’s what I get from my interpretation of scriptures and as you say, I realize this is my opinion.

I’m interested in your direct and specific opinion of my direct questions. They answer your question to me.