Why do non catholics dislike Mother Mary?

[PRmerger]

The WW2 thing they were married and he died hense, they are widows, Its not like they were never married.

Yup. But they’re pregnant, [SIGN]and now unmarried[/SIGN] kevin. Nothing objectively wrong with that.

Or does your church teach that you are still married after death? (Since there’s now over 40,000 different Protestant denominations, each claiming varied and sundry beliefs after reading the Scriptures I simply cannot know what beliefs your church professes).

So is the church now condoning unmarried pregnancy?

Are they now saying its ok to be pregnant and not married?

It has no teaching about that whatsoever. Unless you can provide us with something substantive, kevin? Something from an encyclical perhaps? Or a papal bull that says, “I hereby profess and proclaim that being pregnant and unmarried is a mortal sin!”

There is nothing objectively wrong with being unmarried and pregnant.

[SIGN1]It’s the manner in which you became pregnant that’s the problem.[/SIGN1]

Now, I can wax eloquent about the teachings of the church on the marital embrace, if you’d like. We have loads and loads of teaching on that!

 

[Timothy_Piper]

This too has already been discussed, read the thread. Since there is no word for cousin in the NT it is very conceivable that any reference to brothers or sisters were cousins. It is also very likely due to the living situations of the time when extended families often lived together.

Let me ask you a question. Do you ever call your fellow believers brother? Are they in fact you biological brother?

Colossians 4:10
Aristarchus, my fellow prisoner, sends you his greetings; and {also} Barnabas’s cousin Mark (about whom you received instructions; if he comes to you, welcome him);

Actually, it is a very precise word. “anepsios” = “a cousin” It is the Hebrew that makes no distinction friend.

Let me ask you a question? Do you believe the Word of God?
**1 Corinthians 9:5
Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles and the brothers of the Lord **and Cephas? **** – Do you believe the Word of God? – Do you believe?

John 7:1-13
1 After these things Jesus was walking in Galilee, for He was unwilling to walk in Judea because the Jews were seeking to kill Him. 2 Now the feast of the Jews, the Feast of Booths, was near. 3 Therefore His brothers said to Him, "Leave here and go into Judea, so that Your disciples also may see Your works which You are doing. 4 “For no one does anything in secret when he himself seeks to be {known} publicly. If You do these things, show Yourself to the world.” 5*** For not even His brothers were believing in Him. ***

What kind of brothers can Jesus be referring to that “do not believe him”? Spiritual brothers? No. Biological brothers? Yes.

There is much more in Scripture along the same line; so do you believe the Word of God or not?

 

[PRmerger]

I didn’t say in this part that you have pointed out that the CC was teaching it. Its just a observation. Ya know when a man and woman who aren’t married and living together its said they are living in sin.

Where does the CC teach that Mary and Joseph were not married and living together?

Did you know that the church does not have a problem with a man and woman who aren’t married living together? In fact, it sanctions it sometimes! Of course, they must commit themselves to living in complete continence. (CCC 1650)

 

[Timothy_Piper]

I agree with you 100%. I think this is one of the clearest proofs in all of Scripture and I have mentioned it in several of my posts. It is unfortunate that those who do not believe in Mary’s perpetual virginity will not even address it. The skip right over the fact like it is irrelevant.

Thank you for sharing and God bless you.

see post 513 and add this to the reading for a clear understanding of the error above.

"He {JESUS}answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.”

AND

Matt. 12
48 But Jesus answered the one who was telling Him and said, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?” 49 And stretching out His hand toward His disciples, He said, *"Behold My mother and My brothers! 50 “For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother.” *** ** His biological brother were unbelievers and therefore were not His spiritual brothers at the time that Mary was given to John, His true brother in spirit and truth.

 

[PRmerger]

This has nothing to do with Mary being closed.

It about a real gate, the east gate was to remain closed.

If you start at v.1 it says “Then the man brought me back to the east gate in the outer wall, but it was closed. {then v.2 which you have already} v.3 Only the prince himself may sit inside this gateway to feast in the Lord’s presence. But he may cone and go only through the gateway’s foyer.”

How in the world do you get Mary being closed when it specificily mentions a real gate. Come on this is too much.

You know what, kevin? There’s lots of things mentioned in Scripture that are real, but also have another meaning.

There’s really olive branches. Yet, it also says that we are olive branches!

There really are shepherds. Yet it also says that Jesus is a shepherd!

There really are potters. Yet it also says that God is a potter!

 

[PRmerger]

1. Because she has not had “relations” ie sex with a man so it would be logical to ask that question.

When I was engaged to my husband and had not yet had “relations” with him and if an angel appeared to me and said, “You are going to conceive a child”, my question would not be, “How can this be since I know not man.” My response would be, “Awesome!”

If I had said what Mary said in Luke 1:34, others would have questioned me, “PR, why would you say that? Are you not planning to enjoy the marital embrace with your husband?”

See, kevin? The Blessed Mother’s question is very telling, indeed. She did not plan to have marital relations, ever.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

This post should shed some light on this entire discussion we have been having. Repeatedly, we Catholics are told that protestants do not dislike Mary and that we are making that up. I think this post makes it very clear that we are not.

According to Timothy Piper, Catholics and protestants do not know the same Mary. The protestant Mary is very, very different than the Catholic Mary. To the Catholic, the reconstruction of who Mary is equates to a dislike for her. When you fail to accept who a person really is and you re make that person into someone that is palatable to you, you do so because you do not like who they really are. It is clear from Timothy’s words that he dislikes the Catholic Mary.

I also find it interesting that Timothy subtly attacks Catholics in the process. Stating that we “worship” Mary even though it has been pointed out to him that we do not worship Mary. Using terms such as “under the guise”, implying that we are purposely deceiving. His attempts to bind Catholics to a scripture only view shows a lack of respect for Catholics and their tradition. After all, many of the Catholics ideas of Mary existed long before any protestant denomination.

Piper nailed down the two Marrys perfectly. You have the Mary God told us about In His word, and you have the Catholic Marry created by catholic tradition, The core of protestant beleif is to get back to the true faith once reveiled to the saints(beleivers). I think most Catholics would agree that the RCC has not had a pure history of rightly passing on the faith. Because of that, all Catholic traditions must be examined in the light of Gods word. Teachings of the Catholic church that can be supported by Gods word are retained the rest is disgarded as corrupt. It can not be ignored that most of those corruptions are either tied to mans desire for power and wealth (Roman Supremicy) or the most popular pegan beliefs at the time of the RCCs rise to power. I think any honest self examination and examination of RCC history would lead to this conclusion. However personal traditions are so closely tied to our personal identity that we have a desparate need to hold on to them and deffend them dispite evidence to the contrary. For an institution such as the RCC even more is at stake if they change course, they demonstrate to their adherants that they are fallible and they risk allienating those adherants who cling to the false traditions. Fortunatly we are saved by grace for those that beleive in Christ Jesus, to my understanding that goes for those in the Catholic Church. I would have concern for some Catholic leaders who might realise these errors but remain silent so that they dont loose their possitions. Gods word holds teachers to a higher leval of responsability.
I have noticed that in some posts statements like the ones I have just made are taken as insults, I would like to make clear that I have no intention to demean anyone. I beleive people who are in error are still made in the image of God and are precious to Him and are therefor precious to me. I may strongly disagree with you but that does not mean that I dont love you.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

Rev, you missing the point. It’s your mind that is the problem.

My reference to 1 Corinthians 7:36-38 was to show you that celibate relationships, ie where both the man and woman have decided to remain virgins, within the early Christian community were accepted - despite the fact that your mind cannot grasp this. Now, let’s take this one step further - possibly celibate marriages were practised based on the example of Mary and Joseph.

Surely I am missunderstanding you! If you are claiming that these verses can be used to argue that people can or should remain celabit in marriage, then this is the worse abuse of a pasage of scripture that I have ever seen. Paul is very clearly stating that it is better in his view to remain single if you want to exersise singular devotion to God because if you are married you then have responsabilities to your spouce that will consme your time and attention. Read the entire context Start at the begining of the chapter where he clearly begins talking about the topic because he starts by saying"Now for the matters you wrote about…he very quickly contradicts the conclusion you reach. Even if it was ok to wrench a scripture out of its context to support a doctrin(it is not) the verses you refrence can in no way be interpreted to mean what you say. Someone please tell me is the RCC using this scripture to support some doctrin of cellibate marrige? Or is this just one persons interpritation?

 

[Dokimas]

According to the catholics here, Mary and Joseph could not have had children. When the scriptures are given that calls some men the brothers of Jesus, the catholics say that the men were cousins. Then the catholics prove their point even better by going to the foot of the Cross and say that Jesus, if He had brothers from Mary, would have given His mother to one of His brothers. Valid points to consider, but as I’ve shared before, at best superficial, IMO.​

HERE’s another observation … If the men called brothers were cousins and Boaz, the cousin of Ruth’s dead husband who took Ruth to be her husband, why didn’t Jesus keep it in the family and give His cousins the family responsibility to take care of Mary?

 

[tweetymom]

I come here to have a nice adult discussion on our differences in beliefs. I am not trying to turn anyone away from their religion. And yes they were attacks. Do you look at the things said about the non-Catholics here. It goes both ways.

Amen to that Rev.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

LOL… that was very funny and I appreciate the laugh. So all of Jesus brothers and sister are also divine? How many Gods and Goddesses are their now? i’m just joking, but I hope you see the point of the flawed logic.

You must rea George Orwell then you can understand this logic.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

It doesent… In fact, I’ll go as far as to say that the Bible itself is not needed for salvation. The Church is most necessary for salvation, as the Church community can work together with one bible, one reader, and all can find salvation. Not every individual needs to own a bible to get to heaven.

Ill go a step further, niether the Bible or the church is nessisary for salvation as the list in Hebrews chapter 11 proves.

 

[Dokimas]

Colossians 4:10
Aristarchus, my fellow prisoner, sends you his greetings; and {also} Barnabas’s cousin Mark (about whom you received instructions; if he comes to you, welcome him);

Actually, it is a very precise word. “anepsios” = “a cousin” It is the Hebrew that makes no distinction friend.

Let me ask you a question? Do you believe the Word of God?
1 Corinthians 9:5
Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles and the brothers of the Lord **and Cephas? ** – Do you believe the Word of God? – Do you believe?

John 7:1-13
1 After these things Jesus was walking in Galilee, for He was unwilling to walk in Judea because the Jews were seeking to kill Him. 2 Now the feast of the Jews, the Feast of Booths, was near. 3 Therefore His brothers said to Him, "Leave here and go into Judea, so that Your disciples also may see Your works which You are doing. 4 “For no one does anything in secret when he himself seeks to be {known} publicly. If You do these things, show Yourself to the world.” 5*** For not even His brothers were believing in Him. ***

What kind of brothers can Jesus be referring to that “do not believe him”? Spiritual brothers? No. Biological brothers? Yes.

Good points. TY.

 

[tweetymom]

Colossians 4:10
Aristarchus, my fellow prisoner, sends you his greetings; and {also} Barnabas’s cousin Mark (about whom you received instructions; if he comes to you, welcome him);

Actually, it is a very precise word. “anepsios” = “a cousin” It is the Hebrew that makes no distinction friend.

Let me ask you a question? Do you believe the Word of God?
1 Corinthians 9:5
Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles and the brothers of the Lord **and Cephas? ** – Do you believe the Word of God? – Do you believe?

John 7:1-13
1 After these things Jesus was walking in Galilee, for He was unwilling to walk in Judea because the Jews were seeking to kill Him. 2 Now the feast of the Jews, the Feast of Booths, was near. 3 Therefore His brothers said to Him, "Leave here and go into Judea, so that Your disciples also may see Your works which You are doing. 4 “For no one does anything in secret when he himself seeks to be {known} publicly. If You do these things, show Yourself to the world.” 5*** For not even His brothers were believing in Him. ***

What kind of brothers can Jesus be referring to that “do not believe him”? Spiritual brothers? No. Biological brothers? Yes.

There is much more in Scripture along the same line; so do you believe the Word of God or not?

Great post and thank you.

 

[GraceDK]

Two things, in your prayer you said the protestants seemed right and asked God for help and that you would be a baptist or what ever denomination, rather than asking to be more like his Son in knowledge and wisdom or become a Christian. Just the first thing i noticed.

The second and more important; you took a something you believe came from God and made it your own; you said Jesus did not give a relative to Mary; yet Jesus clearly said who was His brother, sister mother and He was speaking of believers, not non-believers. At that scene you describe, Jesus had no believing biological brothers; therefore consistent with his word He gave His spiritual and true brother in Christ, John, to take care of His mother, which fulfills the Jewish tradition in spirit and truth. So whatever came and gave you assurance was based on misunderstanding and therefore not from God.

Forgive me for saying this so bluntly, but you are an accuser like the pharisees.
You cannot handle the fact and so you twist my words and say that the things from God came from the other side…
I asked God to put me where He wanted me!
I can only challenge you to do the same as I did then: to say in truth and sincerety: “GOD I want to be where YOU want me to be! Not where I want me to be. If you will, I will be Catholic tomorrow”. I dare you today!!!

I asked sincerely and God answered me.
The brothers you quote Jesus for having were also following Jesus… I could mention James called “the brother of Jesus”. John was not kin to Jesus, but James was and he was a disciple, and he should absolutely have taken care of Mary according to you since he, according to you, was both disciple and Mary’s own son. But Mary was given to John.
So your argument does not hold if you say none of Jesus relatives followed Him and that this was the reason why Jesus would give his mother to a spiritual follower… . Mary was given to none of those you believe to be her children…So according to you the passage at the Cross is rather useless because Mary would not need John then, she had James, the brother of Jesus, her own son… according to your interpretation…
No matter how you wriggle, you cant twist Scripture.
There was no child of Mary there except Jesus… admit it man.

This is what the Lord gave me to understand and you try so hard to find fault in it.
You remind me of the pharisees whom Jesus admonished because they let people give money to the temple which should have been used to provide for their old parents (Matt 15: 5). When Jesus was so harsh on people who did not respect the command to honour one’s parents how do you think He likes your games right now, just to get out of the obvious fact that Jesus would never take away the duty of a biological brother (that would bring him blessings and a long life)…

You really have entangled your self and call Jesus a man who breaks the law on behalf of others and put even the ten commandments out of effect… next thing I guess you will say Jesus did not honour His mother.

You are amazingly proud.
As I was given the word from Scripture, I was also given in that same flash, the meaning of it. But the truth is you can’t handle what has been passed on in the Church from the beginning and which the good Lord confirmed to me when I prayed a prayer you probably never prayed because you are so steeped in mistrust towards the Catholic Church.
Give your will and mind over to the Lord… thats all I can say to you.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

When you seperate from the Church -you restrict yourself from many gifts. The Holy Spirit works through the Church, not the Bible.

So youve been told by YOUR church. a litle selfserving dont you think?

no really take a minute and think about it honestly…

In revalation there are 7 churches listed that were given, The Spirit speaks to NOT JUST 1! Its worth noting that not one of those churches was in Rome. We are instructed in the Bible to beaware of false teachers and those that claim to be apostles and who are not. In many places believers are exorted to search the scriptures to see if what they were being taught is true. So the Deciples and Paul were not afraid of their teaching being examined in the light of scripture, their teaching did not contradict scripture. and the churches teaching should also not contradict scripture. So when I unight with a church it will be a church that doesnt ask me to believe things that contradict scripture. If you look honestly at RCC history you will see clear evidence that their are periods that had NO Holy Spirit involvement. I beleive your leadership has apologised for events that clearly were not (name removed by moderator)ired by God please correct me if I am wrong about such apologies.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

How does the holy sp;irit work through the bible?

sad that you would have to ask that.

 

[TEPO]

Anyone can make Scripture say what they want, but the Truth does not change, which is why it is the Truth…it is the same whether you or I are here or were never born. The Truth is that Revelation 12 speaks of Israel and has nothing to do with Mary unless you can somehow put the Genesis account to refer to Mary as well, which given enough thought and time can be done as well. Like they say at burger King “have it your way”.

Bible research done by scholars and professors, can override what monks and priests interpret through intense prayer and petitions to the Holy Spirit ?

The Church leaders have physical commitments to God including: Baptism, confession, Communion, Confirmation — they go on to take part in the Vocation of priesthood and then so on… These people have no agendas besides doing Gods will.

Why would they lie about Mary?

 

[captainmike]

I have personally known older Fundamentalist who were bordered on blasphemy in their disregard for Mary. Well, actually, Fundamentalist of all ages.

I am not catholic, but it bothered me. A group of friends were discussing the differences between Catholics and their own beliefs. Quite a few still view the RCC as the great whore of Babylon, but if well mannered, they will not be very vocal about it in public.

I touched on being careful not to be flippant though when speaking about Mary. After all she gave birth to Jesus. She was his mother, In the South, you had better be careful when talking about somebody’s mother. Even as a little girl I did not like hearing things like that.

Here is the exact response I received:

---

“SO WHAT!!! It could have been anybody!” ***

My response was: “Anybody? So God could have chosen a whore to be the mother of his son? It did not matter?”

It got really quiet after that.

i grew up so. baptist and attended a baptist university. one day, in a religion class, my professor said, “God could have chosen to have his son by a fence post, if he’d wanted to do so.” I didn’t think much about that statement at the time. Looking back, though, it was obviously a shot at Catholics who revere Mary.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

So God wants many seperate Churches?

The Church is the body of beleivers who are adopted sons of God through faith in Christ jesus. there are members of that church who are alone in the jungle, in jail cells, they are in babtist churches and pentacostal churches and yes in the RCC! we are unighted not by the teachers who we follow but by our Lord and God who redemed us. We are all hopefuly doing our best to understant our God and His will for our lives.