Why do non catholics dislike Mother Mary?

[Prodigal_Son1]

So youve been told by YOUR church. a litle selfserving dont you think?

no really take a minute and think about it honestly…

In revalation there are 7 churches listed that were given, The Spirit speaks to NOT JUST 1! Its worth noting that not one of those churches was in Rome. We are instructed in the Bible to beaware of false teachers and those that claim to be apostles and who are not. In many places believers are exorted to search the scriptures to see if what they were being taught is true. So the Deciples and Paul were not afraid of their teaching being examined in the light of scripture, their teaching did not contradict scripture. and the churches teaching should also not contradict scripture. So when I unight with a church it will be a church that doesnt ask me to believe things that contradict scripture. If you look honestly at RCC history you will see clear evidence that their are periods that had NO Holy Spirit involvement. I beleive your leadership has apologised for events that clearly were not (name removed by moderator)ired by God please correct me if I am wrong about such apologies.

**1Ti 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Eph 3:10 That the manifold wisdom of God may be made
known to the principalities and powers in heavenly places through the church**

Now, scriptures tells us the Church is the pillar and ground of truth and that the manifold wisdom of God may be made known through the Church.

When these scriptures were written, the Church was already established. In fact the New Testament came through the Church. The canon of the New Testament was defined 360 years and more later. How did all those generations find truth without a New Testament.

Don’t mistake this as we don’t believe the Bible to be the inspired word of God, WE DO. We also believe what was written about everything and do not pull out ‘snippets’ as if they tell a complete story.

The Churches were different and none were in Rome? Then why does Paul write the following…

Heb 13:24 Salute all your prelates and all the saints. The brethren from Italy salute you.

Now correct me if I’m wrong, but Revelations was written around 110 AD and Paul wrote his letters to the Hebrews around 60 AD and he saluted them from ITALY.

 

[TEPO]

RE: Timothy Piper

Which Holy Spirit do you mean, Timothy?

Is it the one that tells the Lutherans the Eucharist is the true presence of Christ, and then tell the Baptists it is only a symbol?

Is it the one that tells the Methodists it is alright to have female ministers, and then tells the Baptists it is unbiblical?

Is it the one that tells the Seventh Day Adventists that Saturday is the day of worship, and then tells the Presbyterians the day of worship is Sunday and not Saturday?

Is it the one that tells the Lutherans that the Blessed Virgin Mary was and remains always virgin, and then tells the Baptists she had other children?

How can the Holy Spirit tell the Baptists, ‘once saved always saved’, and then tell the Church of Christ that Sola Fides is unscriptural?

How can the Holy Spirit tell Episcopalians to baptize infants and then tell Pentecostals infant baptism is invalid?

How can the Holy Spirit tell Mormons that the Holy Trinity is three separate persons, and then tell Methodists the Trinity is three persons in one GOD??
Source: here

Yes Timothy — Do you suppose the Holy Spirit tells different people different things but they are all right even if they are contradictory?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

If you look honestly at RCC history you will see clear evidence that their are periods that had NO Holy Spirit involvement. I beleive your leadership has apologised for events that clearly were not (name removed by moderator)ired by God please correct me if I am wrong about such apologies.

So you’re saying Christ was wrong about being with His Church until the consummation of the world?

Christ taught the people to do whatsoever those that sat upon the seat of Moses said, but do not do as they do. Doesn’t that seem like Christ knew God could protect His truth, even through sinful men?

If the Catholic Church was not the Church Christ started, provide the writings through history to show your Church was. Even secular history tells us there was only one Church prior to the 1500s and Christ said not even the gates of hell shall prevail against it.

 

[TEPO]

So youve been told by YOUR church. a litle selfserving dont you think?

no really take a minute and think about it honestly…

In revalation there are 7 churches listed that were given, The Spirit speaks to NOT JUST 1! Its worth noting that not one of those churches was in Rome. We are instructed in the Bible to beaware of false teachers and those that claim to be apostles and who are not. In many places believers are exorted to search the scriptures to see if what they were being taught is true. So the Deciples and Paul were not afraid of their teaching being examined in the light of scripture, their teaching did not contradict scripture. and the churches teaching should also not contradict scripture. So when I unight with a church it will be a church that doesnt ask me to believe things that contradict scripture. If you look honestly at RCC history you will see clear evidence that their are periods that had NO Holy Spirit involvement. I beleive your leadership has apologised for events that clearly were not (name removed by moderator)ired by God please correct me if I am wrong about such apologies.

Thats great, and since there are no catholic teachings that contradict scripture, then the Church stands alone as the one Church with Jesus Christ as its Head.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Let me ask something of all the Protestants here. Do you think that Catholics believing Mary was ever virgin somehow endangers our salvation? If so, please take the time to explain.

I’ve asked this question a couple of times, but it seems to be ‘overlooked’. I really can’t understand why this issue is of such importance to those who constantly argue against it.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

sad that you would have to ask that.

It’s no worse than questioning our faith, in my honest opinion.

Does the Holy Spirit lie? Does the Holy Spirit contradict Himself? Please explain how the Holy Spirit tells so many different truths, which appears to us to be through private interpretation.

2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction.

Who is the unlearned, wresting scriptures, even to their own destruction and who is interpreting scriptures correctly?

 

[Dokimas]

So you’re saying Christ was wrong about being with His Church until the consummation of the world?

Christ taught the people to do whatsoever those that sat upon the seat of Moses said, but do not do as they do. Doesn’t that seem like Christ knew God could protect His truth, even through sinful men?

If the Catholic Church was not the Church Christ started, provide the writings through history to show your Church was. Even secular history tells us there was only one Church prior to the 1500s and Christ said not even the gates of hell shall prevail against it.

You misunderstand: it’s not the CC vs another church. There are many members of the CC that are part of the Body of Christ, His church.

 

[TEPO]

Ill go a step further, niether the Bible or the church is nessisary for salvation as the list in Hebrews chapter 11 proves.

So if i live next door to a Church, but decide never to go -then I can still get to heaven?

 

[Dokimas]

It’s no worse than questioning our faith, in my honest opinion.
It’s not your faith but some of the teachings that is questioned. IMO there’s a huge difference.​

Does the Holy Spirit lie?** NO.** Does the Holy Spirit contradict Himself? NO. Please explain how the Holy Spirit tells so many different truths He doesn’t, which appears to us to be through private interpretation. The problem is with you (and the CC by extension) and me: we don’t have perfect understanding.

2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction.

Who is the unlearned (you’d say some of us; I’d not presume to know), wresting scriptures, even to their own destruction and who is interpreting scriptures correctly?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

You misunderstand: it’s not the CC vs another church. There are many members of the CC that are part of the Body of Christ, His church.

I know. Catholics believe, since all Christian beliefs came through the Catholic Church, Protestant Churches have some of those Christian beliefs because they were born through the Protestant reformation in the 1500s.

It just seems some are here beating subjects that have no impact on one’s salvation, which is dividing or separating us further and that’s not taught in scriptures…

**Joh 10:16 And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd.

Eph 4:3 eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Eph 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call,
Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all.

Rom 16:17 I appeal to you, brethren, to take note of those who create dissensions and difficulties, in opposition to the doctrine which you have been taught; avoid them.

1Co 1:10 I appeal to you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree and that there be no dissensions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.

Php 2:2 complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind.

Rom 15:5 May the God of steadfastness and encouragement grant you to live in such harmony with one another, in accord with Christ Jesus,
Rom 15:6 that together you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Joh 17:17 Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth.
Joh 17:18 As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world.
Joh 17:19 And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth.
Joh 17:20 "I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word,
Joh 17:21 that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Joh 17:22 The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one,
Joh 17:23 I in them and thou in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them even as thou hast loved me.

1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body–Jews or Greeks, slaves or free–and all were made to drink of one Spirit.

Rom 12:4 For as in one body we have many members, and all the members do not have the same function,
Rom 12:5 so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.

Eph 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call,

Col 3:15 And let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in the one body. And be thankful.**

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Who is the unlearned (you’d say some of us; I’d not presume to know), wresting scriptures, even to their own destruction and who is interpreting scriptures correctly?

Who is wresting scriptures, even to their own destruction? There are thousands of denominations, with different doctrines, all based on someone’s private interpretation. Are they all correct? I, and I assume everyone here, wants to worship God as He wants to be worshipped and the only way to do that is to follow His truth as taught in HIS Church. Which Church is that?

 

[TEPO]

sad that you would have to ask that.

I ask it because I dont understand how someone can believe that the Holy Spirit works through the bible rather than ones faith… After all, it is your FAITH that opens the door to the Holy Spirit…

You cannot tell me that when we read the bible -the Holy Spirit guides people in all ways which are contradictory to each other… I do not believe it. There is but one Truth, and one Almighty God who shows it.

 

[Dokimas]

Who is wresting scriptures, even to their own destruction? There are thousands of denominations, with different doctrines, all based on someone’s private interpretation. Are they all correct? I, and I assume everyone here, wants to worship God as He wants to be worshipped and the only way to do that is to follow His truth as taught in HIS Church. Which Church is that?

Much of what is believed by concervative non-catholic Christians and catholics are the same: Trinity, virgin birth, Heaven, hell, crucifixion, resurrection, sin, original sin, etc. The big divide comes with you telling us your church is the correct church. Pleas show us the Bible verses that tells us a person won’t be let into Heaven if they don’t accept the CC and the one and only church founded by God?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Much of what is believed by concervative non-catholic Christians and catholics are the same: Trinity, virgin birth, Heaven, hell, crucifixion, resurrection, sin, original sin, etc. The big divide comes with you telling us your church is the correct church. Pleas show us the Bible verses that tells us a person won’t be let into Heaven if they don’t accept the CC and the one and only church founded by God?

Please show me where I said that? I didn’t. I said Christian beliefs came through the Catholic Church, so the Protestants Churches have some of those beliefs through the Protestant reformation in the 1500s. I also provided many scriptures telling us to be one and to avoid those who create dissensions.

Now, tell me, does Catholics believing Mary was ever virgin jeopardize their salvation, in your opinion? The argument seems to be widening a divide or separation and I don’t understand the purpose of creating a larger dissension…

 

[TEPO]

Much of what is believed by concervative non-catholic Christians and catholics are the same: Trinity, virgin birth, Heaven, hell, crucifixion, resurrection, sin, original sin, etc. The big divide comes with you telling us your church is the correct church. Pleas show us the Bible verses that tells us a person won’t be let into Heaven if they don’t accept the CC and the one and only church founded by God?

Who said you wont be let into heaven?

IMHO you are just settling for a second rate version of Christs Church… You ignore the traditions that were laid out from hundreds of years of meditation and prayer and guidance from the HOly Spirit…

Its not that you are “unacceptable” to God, its just that you aren’t doing your best.

 

[Dokimas]

I ask it because I dont understand how someone can believe that the Holy Spirit works through the bible rather than ones faith… After all, it is your FAITH that opens the door to the Holy Spirit… Your starting backwards, faith doesn’t come first. If it did, all religions would be acceptable; they all have faith.

You cannot tell me that when we read the bible -the Holy Spirit guides people in all ways which are contradictory to each other… I do not believe it. NOR do I. There is but one Truth, and one Almighty God who shows it.

 

[TEPO]

Some Protestants attempt to portray some “invisible” Church which combines the faithful of all denominations…

But with no solid set of rules, this can hardly be considered truth. It appears to be nothing more than another attempt to water-down the Truth into some easy to follow/anything goes salvation.

 

[TEPO]

Your starting backwards, faith doesn’t come first. If it did, all religions would be acceptable; they all have faith.

Nice point… I’ll agree with you here, as one needs to know WHAT to have faith in… And I believe that a combination of many, many, many things will develop a uniquely tailored faith which is designed by God.

But to rearrange emphasis on one, and then take more from another --then all the while you remove factors x,y,and z… Well you know how I feel. Thats what I think Luther did.

 

[TEPO]

I still think that love for Mary shows a well rounded / nicely tailored faith… By God.

 

[Dokimas]

I still think that love for Mary shows a well rounded / nicely tailored faith… By God.

Love Mary??? I don’t know her. I highly respect her.