Why do non catholics dislike Mother Mary?

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MyRdmrLvs said:
wow, we need myth busters! God established many churches all over the known world. 7
are named in revelation none of them were in Rome. At no time did God give authority of one church over all the others. When Rome insisted that other churches should yeild to her authority the eastern church resisted causing the great schism 1/2 of Christendom NEVER accepted roman leadership. thats 1000 years of the 2000 years you thought it was all one happy family NOT! lets not forget that in one of Romes crusades. the crusaders sacked Constantinople a Christian city. leaving it in such a weakened state that the muslims would later conquer it and it became Istanbul. It would be interesting to look for what side of that schism those seven original churches are on.
Now is it really surprising that with the invention of the Gutenberg press, the crusades and the spanish inquasition that some people might have had trouble rectifing the Jesus of the Bible with Roman Church leadership??? It should also be pointed out that many people tried to get the church to reform from within and were burned at the steak for their efforts.
So where does that leave us now? The Roman church is no longer run by evil people o they no longer burn people or Bibles so lets open those unburned Bibles and clean up some of the other Roman errors.
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You are simply attempting to defame and persecute God’s Church. Please go away so we do not need to be subjected to your ignorant statements.

If you choose to dialog like a decent human being then do so, otherwise be quiet.
 
tweetymom said:
I also speak for myself,if it ain’t in the Bible I do not believe it. I with the help of the Holy Spirit read the Bible.
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Hey Tweetymom,
I like Tweety, too. 🙂

So, why then doesn’t the Holy Spirit tell every Protestant the same thing when they read the Bible?

**Why does one Protestant **(who claims that the Holy Spirit is helping him) believe that water Baptism is necessary for salvation, yet another Protestant (who also claims that the Holy Spirit is helping him) believes that water Baptism does nothing except show others that he has been saved?

Did Jesus found a Bible when He was on earth? No, He founded His Church.

The leadership of His one and only Church traveled throughout the whole known world and made disciples of Christ through water Baptism Matthew 28:18-20. His Church hierarchy of apostles/bishops, priests/elders, and deacons taught these new disciples what to observe (what to do in order to be remain members in good standing in His one Church) because this is what Jesus commanded them to do. The Catholic (universal, known throughout the whole world) Church of Christ is a body of believers who all believe the same thing and they all share the same faith, same baptism, and same God and Father.

Ephesians 4:4-6
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Romans 1:8
First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

This is a visible Church of like-minded believers. They became known as Christians throughout the whole known world Acts 11:26.

There is but one Church, but there are many local congregations (called churches) who are in union with this one Church and they all teach the same exact faith which was founded by Jesus and built upon Peter, the other apostles, and the prophets Ephesians 2:19-21. This Church (house of God 1 Timothy 3:15) was not built upon the Bible. They did not have a NT Bible yet. They learned the true faith by listening to the Apostles and their successors.

1 Corinthians 12:28
And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues.

1 Corinthians 14:33
For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

Jesus’ One (Jesus founded only one Church), Holy (His Church is guided by the Holy Spirit), Catholic (His Church is universal - throughout the whole world) and Apostolic (built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets and now taught by their successors) Church does not teach confusion (conflicting doctrines).
 
Dokimas said:

Have you admitted that any of our comments can be seen in Scripture but you can’t embrase if what you’re own reasons?​

BTW, I’ve admitted that there are reasons to believe some of what you believe. Maybe you missed those posts. I understand because there are SOOOOOOOOOO many posts it’s easy to miss many posts.
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I realize your beliefs come from scriptures. I was once a Protestant.

When I was a Protestant, I accepted what a ‘preacher’ told me certain parts of the Bible meant, because I didn’t really understand some things. As a Catholic, the Bible has come to life for me. Now I understand those things I didn’t as a Protestant. When a question arises in my mind, I pray and go to the Catechism of the Catholic Church and it becomes clear to me. If you like reading, I’d like to suggest the Catechism as a read. It explains all Catholic beliefs and I believe you would see more in common with us than you might imagine now.
 
TEPO said:
So if i live next door to a Church, but decide never to go -then I can still get to heaven?
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Probably not. If you do not accept Christ as your Lord and personal Savior, you probably will never have the opportunity to continue into eternal life. Then again, we really don’t know the heart of God. We HOPE.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
The Holy Spirit led me to the Catholic Church. Would I like there to be only one Church? Yes, without a doubt. St. Paul tells us to be of the same mind and judgement. Am I concerned for you? Yes, you and the whole world.

The reality of it is, with thousands of denominations, I have my doubts if I’ll see it. Is it that important? I’m not too sure. There is a ‘piece’ of scriptures I’ve been reflecting on lately.

Mar 9:38 (9:37) John answered him, saying: Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, who followeth not us: and we forbade him.
Mar 9:39 (9:38) But Jesus said: Do not forbid him. For there is no man that doth a miracle in my name and can soon speak ill of me.
Mar 9:40 (9:39) For he that is not against you is for you.

Now, let me explain it abit further, in light of our heated discussion on this thread. I feel we all share our belief and love of the Lord, but it’s hard to feel some are for us, when they come here and attack our beliefs, that no one admits has any impact on another’s salvation.

That piece of scripture gives me hope that people realize we are for each other.

I’ve told you in this thread, I converted to the Catholic Church. That would not have been possible without common beliefs, just as I believe a Catholic cannot leave the Catholic Church for a Protestant Church without the common beliefs. Are the common beliefs enough to make us be of the same mind and judgment? I believe it’s possible, but we have to respect each other’s beliefs that have no impact on one’s salvation.

What do I believe are common beliefs?

We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen. We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in being with the Father. Through Him all things were made. For us men and our salvation He came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit, He was born of the Virgin Mary , and became man. For our sake He was crucified under Pontius Pilate; He suffered, died, and was buried. On the third day He rose again in fulfillment of the scriptures: He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son, He is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets. We believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.
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I could not have said it better. Thank you and God bless you.
 
Originally Posted by **MyRdmrLvs **
The Church is the body of beleivers who are adopted sons of God through faith in Christ jesus.

What aspects of Faith do they believe and not believe in? Either they believe the full content of the Faith as handed on by the Apostles and their successors through Christ’s Church or they don’t.

there are members of that church who are alone in the jungle, in jail cells, they are in babtist churches and pentacostal churches and yes in the RCC!

**The Catholic Church is NOT a denomination. **

we are unighted not by the teachers who we follow but by our Lord and God who redemed us. We are all hopefuly doing our best to understant our God and His will for our lives.

Those ‘teachers’ that you do not follow are charged by Christ and His Church with teaching the Truth of the Faith and to protect the Faith of His Church, and to defend that Faith. As the old saying goes, show me a person who marches to the beat of a different drummer, and I’ll show you a person who has lost his parade. 🤷
 
veritas4Christ said:
And I say when your own imaginery version of the Holy Spirit tells you it’s okay to twist the beliefs of others to suit your own personal beliefs, both in support and attack, then I say it’s time to face reality and deal with your need to feed the hate within yourself.
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So your conclusion is that because I don’t agree with your theology that I must hate you? really?sad very pour use of logic. actually I love you and I am concerned for you. that is all. I think I made that clear in my other posts but perhaps you havent read them.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
We agree, the Holy Spirit inspired the written word of God. Then He inspired the men of His Church to define the canon of the New Testament. By the way, that was the Catholic Church that defined the canon of the New Testament.

Now, since all one has to do is believe their Bible, what did 400 years of people do, before the Bible came together to be the one book we know it as today?
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though it is true that the General Catholic Church settled on the cannon based on what books were most widly used and excepted by ALL the churches, not just the church in Rome.

Various collections of the books were held by different churches.
 
Dokimas said:
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
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Paul is writing Timothy, a fellow bishop, who has the authority from God to rightly divide the word of truth. This is not instruction for the individual church member sitting in the pew.
1 John 2:
26 These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you.
27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him. 28 And now, little children, abide in Him, that when He appears, we may have confidence and not be ashamed before Him at His coming.
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They already received Christ from the apostles who were commanded to go forth and make disciples of all the nations by baptizing them and also teaching them what to believe (observe) in order to remain a member in good standing in Jesus’ Church.

John is warning them to not be deceived because they have already been taught correctly by the apostles. They received the anointing of the Holy Spirit through the Sacraments of the Church (Baptism and Confirmation) and they participate in the Holy Eucharist, etc. as members of Jesus’ one and only Church and if they continue to believe the gospel of Christ and do not believe the perverted gospel of those persons who are trying to deceive them, then they will not be ashamed when He judges them at His Second Coming.

Paul states that those who believe differently than what the apostles and their successors specifically teach/taught are accursed.

Some persons were already turning away from the faith (gospel of Jesus) and they were believing/teaching falsehoods (perverting) His gospel.

Galatians 1:6-8
I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

Paul is warning them that if they turn away from the gospel of Christ and believe in a different gospel instead of the gospel that the apostles taught them, then they will be accursed/damned.

I am responsible for me. I will have no one to blame except me. If I’m correct, I have only the Holy Spirit to thank for the things I’ve understood correctly and applied to my life.​

BTW, join the crowd with those of us who have made point or asked question that have not been answered.
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Yes, you are responsible for you. I am responsible for me. 🙂

What question would you like answered?
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
Show me any writings from Christians through the years, prior to the 1500s that were not written by Catholics. Show me any secular history recorded that states other Churches than the Catholic Church.

To deny the Catholic Church, is to say Christ left 1500 years of people without a Church.
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answered this in other posts
 
SHW said:
Paul is writing Timothy, a fellow bishop, who has the authority from God to rightly divide the word of truth. This is not instruction for the individual church member sitting in the pew.

They already received Christ from the apostles who were commanded to go forth and make disciples of all the nations by baptizing them and also teaching them what to believe (observe) in order to remain a member in good standing in Jesus’ Church.

John is warning them to not be deceived because they have already been taught correctly by the apostles. They received the anointing of the Holy Spirit through the Sacraments of the Church (Baptism and Confirmation) and they participate in the Holy Eucharist, etc. as members of Jesus’ one and only Church and if they continue to believe the gospel of Christ and do not believe the perverted gospel of those persons who are trying to deceive them, then they will not be ashamed when He judges them at His Second Coming.

Paul states that those who believe differently than what the apostles and their successors specifically teach/taught are accursed.

Some persons were already turning away from the faith (gospel of Jesus) and they were believing/teaching falsehoods (perverting) His gospel.

Galatians 1:6-8
I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

Paul is warning them that if they turn away from the gospel of Christ and believe in a different gospel instead of the gospel that the apostles taught them, then they will be accursed/damned.

Yes, you are responsible for you. I am responsible for me. 🙂

What question would you like answered?
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You know your catechism.​

No I don’t have any questions but feel free to jump in an correct me as I go.​

Oh yes, I may have a question, if I am ordained, could I get encouragement by the 1 John 2 verse?
 
MyRdmrLvs said:
So your conclusion is that because I don’t agree with your theology that I must hate you? really?sad very pour use of logic. actually I love you and I am concerned for you. that is all. I think I made that clear in my other posts but perhaps you havent read them.
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No my conclusion is that as you need to twist the Catholic Church’s theology into something that it isn’t in order to defend your disagreement with the Church and that your own theology is based on hating the Catholic Church more than you love Jesus Christ.

Unfortunately for you, I have heard too many “christians” jump on the bandwagon of “I love you because the Bible tells me to” to pay any heed to empty words. If you do love and care for others, then I would if I was you start with speaking the truth in representing what others believe and expand your knowledge of history instead of regurgitating Jack Chick type slanders. Would you believe, I was recently told that the Catholic Church started Islam ??? That person was serious and apparently was off to do some more “research” on this amazing historical secret that they were about to reveal. Their source - Jack Chick.

I have zero tolerance for such ignorance. History has shown us that many people die when people have all too readily accepted slanders that feed their “disagreement” with “the other”.

I have no problem that you disagree with the Church, just that you need lies to justify it.
 
PRmerger said:
And as we pointed out to you, Dokimas, these “core beliefs” that you claim are necessary to believe as Christians are extra-biblical. They are a man-made doctrine that’s arbitrary, fallible, non-authoritative, and subject to any particular pastor’s whims.

For there is no list in Scripture of what’s a “core belief”.

I’ve been on this forum for a long time now and I’ve seen about a dozen different permutations, ostensibly by bible Christians, as to what’s a core belief.

The reason there is no common understanding about what’s a “core belief” is because Scripture gives us no indication that “core beliefs” are necessary to be a Christian.
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Then are you saying that we do not agree. that we must believe that we should trust that God did for us what we are unable to do for ourselves? and that salvation comes in belief in what He did for us at the cross?
 
tweetymom said:
You do not know they were all CC. You believe cause someone told you. If that was the case why doesn’t the Scriptures say Catholic Church? And there is no church that there aren’t sinners. We are all sinnners saved by grace.
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Catholic means universal throughout the whole world (Romans 1:8) and the first written record of its use in describing Jesus’ Church is by St. Ignatius around **107-110 A.D.
**
The term “Catholic” was applied to the Church at the beginning of the second century by Ignatius, the third bishop of Antioch. During the reign of Emperor Trajan (98-117) Ignatius was taken to Rome to be executed. The exact year of the journey is uncertain, but most scholars estimate it was around 107 or 110. On the way to his death, Ignatius wrote letters to churches he was passing by or through. In his letter to the church of Smyrna, he wrote:
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"Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there, just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church."[Epistle to the Smyrneans 8:2.]. This is the first recorded use of the phrase “Catholic Church,” but its usage almost certainly precedes Ignatius’s letter. He assumed his readers would be familiar with the term, and he uses it in an off-handed manner, suggesting he was not coining a new term, but picking up one already in use. From: catholic.com/thisrock/1993/9311def.asp
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Prodigal_Son1 said:
Luk 1:34 And Mary said to the angel: How shall this be done, because I know not man?

Let’s approach the above scripture using a little bit of logic. If Mary had intended on having relations, would she have asked, “How shall this be done…?” Wouldn’t she have assumed, well my first born will be the Son of God as foretold by the Angel of the Lord?

Just as it’s being demanded to show where scriptures explicitly states, “Mary remained a virgin…”, scriptures do not tell us, “Joseph knew Mary”, nor do scriptures give us the lineage of “brothers and sisters”. Where does it say Mary begat anyone?

Let me ask this, if Joseph had children prior to his marriage to Mary, what would those children have been considered in their relationship to Jesus? Wouldn’t they have been his “brothers and sisters”?

When you speak of the Church of Ephesus, do you not realize as the Church grew, certain things only became doctrine when the teaching became endangered? Some teachings were taken for granted by the early Church fathers, because everyone believed. There was not a New Testament in the beginning of the Church, in fact the canon of the New Testament was not defined until the 400s.

I have shown you, from scriptures, the law of Moses and how it pertained to a woman taking a vow of abstinence and when it had to be honored by her father and even her husband. Joseph had considered, quietly, putting Mary away, or divorcing her, because he was not willing to publically expose her. The Angel of the Lord appeared to him and told him who the child was.

As for the semantics of the word “until”. Have you ever told your children to behave until they got home, or until company had left? Did this mean your children were invited to misbehave once they got home, or once company had left?

We believe in the authoritative Church and all she teaches. It’s called faith…

Why is it so important to you to prove Mary otherwise? Does believing her to be ever virgin have some impact on someone’s salvation in your opinion?
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*Luke 1:34 Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I am a virgin?” **
Let’s see; some common sense. (paraphrase) Angel; how can this be; I have not had any intercourse with a man. AKA I am a Virgin. Doesn’t say anymore nor any less. She did not ask “How will this be done”?
*

**Matt 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: when His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit. **

Look at the Greek for the “came & together”. In the vernacular it would be equivalent to the prison system in the US which allows “conjugal visits”.

We know it must mean this because it is crystal clear that Jesus had biological siblings.
Did you not throw logic out the window with the notion of Joseph having children in a previous marriage? This is how I know there is no Scriptural leg to stand on.

To answer your last question; it does and has and will continue to be a distraction.
 
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