Why do non catholics dislike Mother Mary?

[izoid]

It’s not a matter of can’t pray. All true believers are called saints in the NT. There’s Biblical evidence that the prayers of saints are kept is some sort of container in Heaven. The prayers mentioned in the Book of the Revelation are the prayers of all of us.

But I thought you said the saints in heaven were dead? Now you say that they do pray for us, for everyone? You believe they present our prayers to God but you also think that asking them to pray for us is wrong? I am having a hard time understanding your position.

 

[Dokimas]

Ac 9:13 Then Ananias answered, "Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he has done to Your saints in Jerusalem.
Ac 9:32 Now it came to pass, as Peter went through all parts of the country, that he also came down to the saints who dwelt in Lydda.
Ac 9:41 Then he gave her his hand and lifted her up; and when he had called the saints and widows, he presented her alive.
Ac 26:10 "This I also did in Jerusalem, and many of the saints I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when they were put to death, I cast my vote against them.
Ro 1:7 To all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Ro 8:27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
Ro 12:13 distributing to the needs of the saints, given to hospitality.
Ro 15:25 But now I am going to Jerusalem to minister to the saints.

 

[Dokimas]

Ro 15:26 For it pleased those from Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor among the saints who are in Jerusalem.
Ro 15:31 that I may be delivered from those in Judea who do not believe, and that my service for Jerusalem may be acceptable to the saints,
Ro 16:2 that you may receive her in the Lord in a manner worthy of the saints, and assist her in whatever business she has need of you; for indeed she has been a helper of many and of myself also.
Ro 16:15 Greet Philologus and Julia, Nereus and his sister, and Olympas, and all the saints who are with them.
1Co 1:2 To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
1Co 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unrighteous, and not before the saints?
1Co 6:2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1Co 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Those are beautiful verses that tells us that when we die we aren’t dead. They have nothing to do with praying to those on the other side of the grave.

Well, let me use the Bible the way you use it for just a sec. Where does the Bible tell us NOT to ask those eternally alive in Christ, in heaven, to pray for us?

 

[Dokimas]

2Co 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, To the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints who are in all Achaia:
2Co 8:4 imploring us with much urgency that we would receive the gift and the fellowship of the ministering to the saints.
2Co 9:1 Now concerning the ministering to the saints, it is superfluous for me to write to you;
2Co 9:12 For the administration of this service not only supplies the needs of the saints, but also is abounding through many thanksgivings to God,
2Co 13:13 All the saints greet you.
Eph 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus:
Eph 1:15 Therefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints,

 

[izoid]

Hey Doki…have you gone crazy with us? Why the numerous posts of nothing but verses? Is there a point to it?

 

[tweetymom]

Hey Doki…have you gone crazy with us? Why the numerous posts of nothing but verses? Is there a point to it?

I know Izoid that you do not read my posts, but perhaps you should read the Scriptures?

 

[Dokimas]

Well, let me use the Bible the way you use it for just a sec. Where does the Bible tell us NOT to ask those eternally alive in Christ, in heaven, to pray for us?

I would like to know where I’ve challenged you to find a verse that says NOT to do something. It doesn’t tell us not to watch porn on the TV.​

As in baptism, the Bible doesn’t say directly NOT to baptize infants. However, if you see who gets baptized, it’s always those who choose to. Same with prayer: those on this side of the grave are told to pray; Jesus said to pray to the Father. I don’t remember any verse that says to pray to those saints that have left this earth.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I know Izoid that you do not read my posts, but perhaps you should read the Scriptures?

Tweetymom,

I have seen you post alot of one word posts, or posts with only an emoticon, and now you post a condescending response which seems to insinuate that Izoid, or maybe all Catholics, don’t read the scriptures. I assure you, you are very much mistaken. In fact, I’d be willing to guess that Catholics are exposed to more scriptures, through the Mass, than a lot of non Catholics are, whether in their Church or reading it alone.

I, for one, have offered to present a scriptural basis for any Catholic belief anyone has objections too. (I’d be willing to guess that a great deal of Catholics here can do the same.) I’ll remind you, you said ‘go ahead’, without presenting any belief to discuss.

Maybe you should go back to your ‘peanut gallery’ style remarks, which are more like ‘attaboys’ for those you agree with, as opposed to making uncharitable type remarks directed at someone you really know nothing about. How can you assume Izoid or anyone else does, or does not read scriptures?

People, these are discussions and it’s not a game of who can ‘win’ and the other side loses. When discussing theology, I would like to think ALL Christians desire to see no ‘losers’.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I would like to know where I’ve challenged you to find a verse that says NOT to do something. It doesn’t tell us not to watch porn on the TV.​

As in baptism, the Bible doesn’t say directly NOT to baptize infants. However, if you see who gets baptized, it’s always those who choose to. Same with prayer: those on this side of the grave are told to pray; Jesus said to pray to the Father. I don’t remember any verse that says to pray to those saints that have left this earth.

I apologize for saying you specifically required something to be in the Bible or it wasn’t important. This thread has become a mass of confusion on who said what and who supports what ideas/beliefs. I know it’s been said by some of our Protestant visitors.

Once, again, I only ask that you recognize that the belief of intercessory prayer comes from scriptures, even if you don’t agree with the interpretation. And, again, it’s a subject that I believe most would agree it’s not a salvation impacting belief.

 

[Dokimas]

Hey Doki…have you gone crazy with us? Why the numerous posts of nothing but verses? Is there a point to it?

Each and every verse relates an idea of the meaning of saints.

 

[Dokimas]

I apologize for saying you specifically required something to be in the Bible or it wasn’t important. This thread has become a mass of confusion on who said what and who supports what ideas/beliefs. I know it’s been said by some of our Protestant visitors.

Once, again, I only ask that you recognize that the belief of intercessory prayer comes from scriptures, even if you don’t agree with the interpretation. And, again, it’s a subject that I believe most would agree it’s not a salvation impacting belief.

What’s important is that if a teaching can be shown to be against the Bible then it is most likely wrong.​

Of course intercessory prayer is a teaching of the NT. It is something we should all do. I confess I am sorely lacking in this responsibility. God help me!

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Each and every verse relates an idea of the meaning of saints.

I agree Dokimas. But it still leaves me with the questions about the great cloud of witnesses over our head with concern for our well being and the ancients presenting our prayers to the Lamb.

I know of a verse from the book of Tobit that specifically states an Angel of the Lord offered up Tobias’ prayers during his mourning, but I’m not going to present it, incase their are canonical differences in our Bibles, which makes most Protestants declare those scriptures ‘moot’ and I don’t want to provoke anyone to speak about the inspired word of God in such a light.

 

[tweetymom]

Tweetymom,

I have seen you post alot of one word posts, or posts with only an emoticon, and now you post a condescending response which seems to insinuate that Izoid, or maybe all Catholics, don’t read the scriptures. I assure you, you are very much mistaken. In fact, I’d be willing to guess that Catholics are exposed to more scriptures, through the Mass, than a lot of non Catholics are, whether in their Church or reading it alone.

I, for one, have offered to present a scriptural basis for any Catholic belief anyone has objections too. (I’d be willing to guess that a great deal of Catholics here can do the same.) I’ll remind you, you said ‘go ahead’, without presenting any belief to discuss.

Maybe you should go back to your ‘peanut gallery’ style remarks, which are more like ‘attaboys’ for those you agree with, as opposed to making uncharitable type remarks directed at someone you really know nothing about. How can you assume Izoid or anyone else does, or does not read scriptures?

People, these are discussions and it’s not a game of who can ‘win’ and the other side loses. When discussing theology, I would like to think ALL Christians desire to see no ‘losers’.

Prodical son: I was reply to Izoids response why Dokimas posted scripture and I responded it was to read. Sorry you took offence/ Oh and a big thank you

 

[tweetymom]

I know Izoid that you do not read my posts, but perhaps you should read the Scriptures?

That was the point maybe he should read the scriptures that Doki posted nothing more nothing less. You sure are sensitive.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I would like to know where I’ve challenged you to find a verse that says NOT to do something. It doesn’t tell us not to watch porn on the TV.​

As in baptism, the Bible doesn’t say directly NOT to baptize infants. However, if you see who gets baptized, it’s always those who choose to. Same with prayer: those on this side of the grave are told to pray; Jesus said to pray to the Father. I don’t remember any verse that says to pray to those saints that have left this earth.

Dokimas,

Would it be too much to ask for you to share your Church affliation? I know some differences between Protestants and it would help me to not generalize all beliefs and attribute them to you.

Ok, promised the wife a day and we’re off to do whatever she wants. Have a blessed day!

 

[Dokimas]

Tweetymom,

I have seen you post alot of one word posts, or posts with only an emoticon, and now you post a condescending response which seems to insinuate that Izoid, or maybe all Catholics, don’t read the scriptures. I assure you, you are very much mistaken. In fact, I’d be willing to guess that Catholics are exposed to more scriptures, through the Mass, than a lot of non Catholics are, whether in their Church or reading it alone.

I, for one, have offered to present a scriptural basis for any Catholic belief anyone has objections too. (I’d be willing to guess that a great deal of Catholics here can do the same.) I’ll remind you, you said ‘go ahead’, without presenting any belief to discuss.

Maybe you should go back to your ‘peanut gallery’ style remarks, which are more like ‘attaboys’ for those you agree with, as opposed to making uncharitable type remarks directed at someone you really know nothing about. How can you assume Izoid or anyone else does, or does not read scriptures?

People, these are discussions and it’s not a game of who can ‘win’ and the other side loses. When discussing theology, I would like to think ALL Christians desire to see no ‘losers’.

I’m sure this is good advice. I’m not sure if all of it applies to me or tweetymom. I wish I’d see you give it at times to those on your side of the ‘isle’.​

I would caution you that unless tweetymom says all Catholics don’t read their Bible, then you should not assume her intent.​

Also, to call her comment from the ‘peanut gallery’ is not exactly edifying. You have come against such comments before. Why use this tactic now?

 

[Dokimas]

I agree Dokimas. But it still leaves me with the questions about the great cloud of witnesses over our head with concern for our well being and the ancients presenting our prayers to the Lamb.

I know of a verse from the book of Tobit that specifically states an Angel of the Lord offered up Tobias’ prayers during his mourning, but I’m not going to present it, incase their are canonical differences in our Bibles, which makes most Protestants declare those scriptures ‘moot’ and I don’t want to provoke anyone to speak about the inspired word of God in such a light.

There are canonical differences but that’s okay. This seems like a good example to start with. Tobit was praying to whom? the Angel? For this to be an example of why you pray to saints, Tobit would havd had to be praying to the Angel. Correct?​

As for the cloud of witnesses in Hebrews 12 (most likely, IMO, they are dead to this world people of faith like those in chapter 11), there is no evidence that we are to pray to those witnesses. God is able to hear our prayers directly. God reveals how special our prayers are by keeping them in some sort of vessel. I’d guess it’s quite a priviledge for those in Heaven to bring our prayers to God, not to be prayed to.

 

[Dokimas]

Dokimas,

Would it be too much to ask for you to share your Church affliation? I know some differences between Protestants and it would help me to not generalize all beliefs and attribute them to you.

Ok, promised the wife a day and we’re off to do whatever she wants. Have a blessed day!

I catagorize myself as non-denominational. We have taken the opportunity to visit many different kinds of Christian churches and have been blessed. Sorry I can’t give you any more info than that. I’d answer any question of what and why I believe such and such if you are interested. And, I might not have a very good answer, but it WILL be MINE.

 

[SHW]

**
The saints in heaven also make intercession for us. Revelation 5:8**

We are surrounded by a cloud of witnesses Hebrews 12:1 and they are the OT Patriarchs who have gone ahead of us into eternal life. Hebrews 11

The prayers of a righteous person avails much. The saints in heaven (cloud of witnesses) are righteous and they intercede for us (who are still on earth) when we ask them to pray for us.

James 5:16
Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.

We are all one body whether we are the Church members on earth or the Church members in heaven, and the Church members in heaven will help us who are still on earth until we are able to join them in heaven.

Mary, the mother of Jesus is the most righteous person in heaven so her prayers avail much. Jesus was not yet ready to start His miracles to show that He was the Messiah, but He did one anyway in order to please His mother when she asked Him.

John 2:2-5
Now both Jesus and His disciples were invited to the wedding. 3 And when they ran out of wine, the mother of Jesus said to Him, “They have no wine.”
4 Jesus said to her, “Woman, what does your concern have to do with Me? My hour has not yet come.” 5 His mother said to the servants, “Whatever He says to you, do it.”

6 Now there were set there six waterpots of stone, according to the manner of purification of the Jews, containing twenty or thirty gallons apiece. 7** Jesus said to them, “Fill the waterpots with water.” And they filled them up to the brim. 8 And He said to them, “Draw some out now, and take it to the master of the feast.” And they took it. 9 When the master of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and did not know where it came from (but the servants who had drawn the water knew)**, the master of the feast called the bridegroom. 10 And he said to him, “Every man at the beginning sets out the good wine, and when the guests have well drunk, then the inferior. You have kept the good wine until now!”

The prayers (intercession) of a righteous person avails much. Now, that the saints are in heaven, they have the ear of Jesus and can constantly ask for His help for us on earth.

My father and grandparents have passed on. I am sure that they are asking God right now for His help for their children and grandchildren on earth so that we will all be joined together again in heaven some day.