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MyRdmrLvs
Guest
Interesting, Lets say for the sake of discussion that Peter went to rome and spread the gospel and the gospel was passed down and along the way developed various “traditions”, meanwhile one of the 60 who were sent out, he went off in another direction and spread the gospel and started churches and that gospel was handed down while also adding “traditions” as time goes on these churches bump into one another and compare “traditions” and reject each others “traditions” But the origin is the same Saviour. So debate about traditions and things that developed over time is one thing but to claim the other is not the true church or that one church should lord over the others that is where weI thought so, but wanted to make sure.
Every Christian, whether Catholic Christian or not, receives graces through baptism by the anointing of the Holy Spirit. And, if the Protestant Christian continues to obey God’s commandments and do the Father’s Will until his death, then he will be saved.
(This is only valid if he does not know that his beliefs are not in line with Jesus’ true Church, the Catholic Church. If he knows that the Catholic Church is the true Church and still does not join her because of fear of what family and friends will say, then Jesus will deny him before His Father, because this person denied Him before men. Matthew 10:33) If a person knows that the Catholic Church is His Church and he still refuses to join His Church, then he is rejecting Him. Reject His Church and you reject Him.
Luke 10:16
16 He who hears you (My Church) hears Me, he who rejects you (My Church) rejects Me, and he who rejects Me rejects Him who sent Me.”
Not to worry though; God knows every person’s heart, and if a person truly is not able to understand the Truth, God will not hold it against him.
have gone astray.
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MyRdmrLvs
Guest
There has always been Christian churches besides the church in Rome. you do not need to take my word for it you can read some history. If you say those churches were not really Christs church because they disagreed with Rome and therefore can not be the true church. then I will come back with examples from your church history that are well lets just say, less than Christlike. then you get your feelers hurt and call me hatefull, which I am not. My religion was started 2000 years ago just like yours.
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SyroMalankara
Guest
how do you decide which stream to follow? There were and are many heresies. St. Paul says that even if an angel from heaven were to preach some doctrine contrary to what he taught, that one should stay firm in his (the Church’s) teachings.
The only way to know which teachings are orthodox and which are heterodox is to figure out where authority comes from and where it resides today - if it is with the individual, then no one can say Arius or Nestorius, or Donatus are wrong. If it is with the Church, then the Church cannot be shown to be without the Spirit from Christ to this day.
So non-Catholics (non-Orthodox), how do you choose? (Remember, the Bible argument will not suffice, as recognizing the authority of the Bible automatically assumes the authority of the Church which compiled and recognized the Bible)
The only way to know which teachings are orthodox and which are heterodox is to figure out where authority comes from and where it resides today - if it is with the individual, then no one can say Arius or Nestorius, or Donatus are wrong. If it is with the Church, then the Church cannot be shown to be without the Spirit from Christ to this day.
So non-Catholics (non-Orthodox), how do you choose? (Remember, the Bible argument will not suffice, as recognizing the authority of the Bible automatically assumes the authority of the Church which compiled and recognized the Bible)
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Crocodile
Guest
I think, this is only my opinion though, that many others do not read their religious texts. I think it has something to do with the fact that they somehow have this idea that Mother Mary was an “idol” of some sort.
Crazy idea I know, but I have met some other Muslims (who, hopefully fall under the definition of “non-catholic” too.
) who do not want to have anything to do with aspects of any other religions other than Islam for example.They probably see this as a threat to their belief system.
I
izoid
Guest
The problem is you throw stones at others while failing to see the same abuses in your own ranks. If your logic is true then there would be no true Church.
Do you remeber the person with the log in their eye?
I
izoid
Guest
So, it was a simple misunderstanding on their part? It seems strange that Jesus would let His followers walk away over a misunderstanding doesn’t it?
The truth is, they left because they understood what He was saying and they could not believe it. I think the same thing is happening today, don’t you?
T
Timothy_Piper
Guest
You own Church says you do; they, unlike you, call it what it is and only make the distinction as a matter of degree. I wonder how God will view veneration of saints, statues, angles, relics and Mary? What do you think?
Can one imagine oneself? Seen openly bowing down before a statute of Mary or Baal in Moses’ day in ones tent or asking the Levitical priest to consecrate the statues before God. They are questioned before Moses, and when asked for a reason for this idolatry, the person says, “Oh, that is not idolatry. sometime in the future, in a new language defines the nuances of worship in about 3,000 years, any one will be able to argue semantics for a looser use of the term, just a matter of degree?” I’m sure that would go over about as well as the, “Oh, I wasn’t worshiping the idol by bowing down, lighting incense and lighting candles before it, I was giving it hyperdulia instead of latria, you know? Hyperdulia is a little less than latria and a little more than dulia” excuse. These statutes would go with the idolater under a large pile of rocks way outside of the camp.
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Timothy_Piper
Guest
Do you actually read the posts? The Lord’s brother is not part of the original 12; he couldn’t be because at the cross none of His biological brothers believed in Him. Paul speaks of His believing when the Lord appeared to James and 500 others. He was called an apostle with a little a, just as Timothy and Barnabas were.Oh, good!! You’re finally going to engage the argument!
Firstly, do you agree that James, the “brother” of the Lord, was an apostle?
(This is a simple yes or no question.)
Trust me, you will have a difficult time in not impossible time of connecting the dots, but if you want to move forward I will refute your errors as they occur based on my experience with you thus far and I do pray this will change for the Lords Namesake.
I
izoid
Guest
Your opinions are becoming clearer and clearer the more you post. A few pages back you questioned whether Catholics were even Christian. Now you call us idoloters.
Thanks for allowing us to see the REAL you. Your hatred for all things Catholic is very clear. Why do you post here Timthy? Are you evangelizing us? It appears that you already know what we believe and your only mission is to correct us. Is this the case?
I
izoid
Guest
Can you point us to the verses that tell us that Jesus’ bilogical siblings did not believe in Him? I, for one, would be very interested to read them.
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PRmerger
Guest
It’s interesting that you know exactly what it is that the CC teaches in the above examples, and have given us examples of Catholics who disobey these teachings.
It speaks to the fact that the CC has made our Lord’s teachings quite clear.
However, what the other 40,000 different Christian denominations believe about Scripture and our Lord is, well, unclear.
To answer your question: yes there are pro-choice “Catholics”, and they are our sisters in Christ, but they are disobeying His teachings.
I don’t know about you, but I certainly don’t want to face our Lord and say, “Well, Lord, I believed your message when you told me to feed the poor, but when you said that artificial birth control was wrong, well, I think you’re wrong about that!” Yikes!!
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tweetymom
Guest
And I think that you are wrong, Yikes
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PRmerger
Guest
The question wasn’t do you believe James is part of the original 12,the question was: do you believe that James, the “brother of the Lord” was an apostle?
It’s a simple yes or no question, Timothy.
Could you please answer yes or no, so we can move on?
Yes, or no?
If you don’t know, simply say. There’s no shame in not knowing the entire Bible, Timothy!
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Dokimas
Guest
Interesting verse:
Lu 14:12 Then He also said to him who invited Him, "When you give a dinner or a supper, do not ask your friends, your brothers, your relatives, nor rich neighbors, lest they also invite you back, and you be repaid.
If brothers (adelphos) means relatives (like cousins) then why would Jesus also add ‘relatives’?
D
Dokimas
Guest
Tim answered the question. He said yes with a small ‘a’ like Barnabus.
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PRmerger
Guest
YES!! Exactly, Dokimas! They understood him to be literal, and walked away.
Yet Jesus, noting that they left, did not correct them. He did not say, “Wait! I was only speaking figuratively, folks!”
In fact, he reinforced his message again and again–Eat My Flesh. And, he asked his friends, “Are you going to leave me, too?”
But not a word of correction about his message being misunderstood. Only reinforcing and asking, sadly, if his message was too difficult for even his closest and beloved friends.
T
Timothy_Piper
Guest
Teach me Your way, O LORD; I will walk in Your truth; Unite my heart to fear Your name.
Maybe you can find these somewhere in your Bible Hint: (NAS)
Your word I have treasured in my heart, That I may not sin against You.
Blessed are You, O LORD; Teach me Your statutes. With my lips I have told of
All the ordinances of Your mouth. I have rejoiced in the way of Your testimonies,
As much as in all riches. I will meditate on Your precepts And regard Your ways.
I shall delight in Your statutes; I shall not forget Your word.
Make me understand the way of Your precepts, So I will meditate on Your wonders
"But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
“God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, {but} you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation–having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
and on and on it goes.
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