Why do non catholics dislike Mother Mary?

[Prodigal_Son1]

Prodigal Son,

You misquoted that scripture. Please reread. You wrote it as if the witnesses lay aside. It doesn’t read that way.

Izoid,

I understand that you believe that Mary can hear every prayer that goes to her. I don’t need to read every post for that do I? I’m still wondering where she gets that power. And I would love something more than just “we believe”. I’m not being disrespectful, just asking about scriptural basis to this belief. It’s not a fight, just giving you the average Protestant’s view of Mary. I don’t get it.

Respectfully,

Chris

I have not misquoted it. I copied and pasted it straight from the Douay-Rheims Bible.

Here it is from the KJV.

Heb 12:1 WhereforeG5105 seeing weG2249 alsoG2532 are compassed about(G4029) with(G2254) so greatG5118 a cloudG3509 of witnesses,G3144 let us lay asideG659 everyG3956 weight,G3591 andG2532 the sinG266 which doth so easily besetG2139 us, andG2532 let us runG5143 withG1223 patienceG5281 theG3588 raceG73 that is set beforeG4295 us,G2254

Here it is from a Greek interlinear Bible.

(IGNT+) τοιγαρουνG5105 THEREFORE καιG2532 ALSO ημειςG2249 WE τοσουτονG5118 SO GREAT εχοντεςG2192 [G5723] HAVING περικειμενονG4029 [G5740] ENCOMPASSING ημινG2254 US νεφοςG3509 A CLOUD μαρτυρωνG3144 OF WITNESSES, ογκονG3591 WEIGHT αποθεμενοιG659 [G5642] HAVING LAID ASIDE πανταG3956 EVERY καιG2532 AND τηνG3588 THE ευπεριστατονG2139 EASILY SURROUNDING αμαρτιανG266 SIN, διG1223 WITH υπομονηςG5281 ENDURANCE τρεχωμενG5143 [G5725] WE SHOULD RUN τονG3588 THE προκειμενονG4295 [G5740] LYING BEFORE ημινG2254 US αγωναG73 RACE

 

[Justy90]

How is it that some people can not believe it is possible that she remained ever-Virgin? The biblical word “until” is vague and not definite.

Old Testament writing of Eve, the Ark of the Covenant, the temple, and other images indicate that she was perpetually virginal.

St. Augustine said that "the New Testament lies hidden in the Old and the Old is fulfilled in the New."

insightscoop.typepad.com/2004/2009/08/marian-imagery-in-the-old-testament.html

You sound just like a defense attorney trying to muster up a defense for a felon by attempting to create doubt to combat the facts. The Bible never says anything contrary to Joseph and Mary having a normal marriage. Your theory of Mary remaining a virgin her whole life becasue it was possible doesn’t hold hot water.

 

[tweetymom]

You sound just like a defense attorney trying to muster up a defense for a felon by attempting to create doubt to combat the facts. The Bible never says anything contrary to Joseph and Mary having a normal marriage. Your theory of Mary remaining a virgin her whole life becasue it was possible doesn’t hold hot water.

:tiphat::whacky:

 

[tweetymom]

Just saying others do too, just saying

 

[Justy90]

And once again in a theme throughout all of the Catholic Answer Forums it looks like it’s time to jump in to save him …just saying

 

[carpentercb]

My friend, the great cloud of witnesses is universally understood as the saints who have gone before us and are already in heaven cheering (praying) us on.

It is the sin that we are to lay aside.

Can I not witness here on earth? It was quoted that the witnesses are laying aside our sin. Thats incorrect. So they may be cheering us on, that’s fine. I don’t quite believe that. I believe that many are witnessing our behavior as they witnessed Christ’s behavior on earth. But even if I did, I don’t think they can mediate my prayers to the Father. This includes Mary, because no scripture shows it. I am not arguing whether Mary was a virgin her whole life or not or that she sinned for the rest of her life. The point was that she was a virgin at conception and birth. Although she had sinners in her ancestry(look it up), Jesus was able to overcome his nature of sin in that earthly body and set an example for us. The bible never tells us that Mary was sinless all the days of her life and thus is exalted in heaven with the power to hear millions of prayers all at once.

Respectfully,

Chris

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Prodigal Son,

You misquoted that scripture. Please reread. You wrote it as if the witnesses lay aside. It doesn’t read that way.

Respectfully,

Chris

Let’s read the cloud of witnesses verse in context…

**Heb 11:33 Who by faith conquered kingdoms, wrought justice, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,
Heb 11:34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, recovered strength from weakness, became valiant in battle, put to flight the armies of foreigners.
Heb 11:35 Women received their dead raised to life again. But others were racked, not accepting deliverance, that they might find a better resurrection.
Heb 11:36 And others had trial of mockeries and stripes: moreover also of bands and prisons.
Heb 11:37 They were stoned, they were cut asunder, they were tempted, they were put to death by the sword, they wandered about in sheepskins, in goatskins, being in want, distressed, afflicted:
Heb 11:38 Of whom the world was not worthy: wandering in deserts, in mountains and in dens and in caves of the earth.
Heb 11:39 And all these, being approved by the testimony of faith, received not the promise:
Heb 11:40 God providing some better thing for us, that they should not be perfected without us.
Heb 12:1 And therefore we also having so great a cloud of witnesses over our head, laying aside every weight and sin which surrounds us, let us run by patience to the fight proposed to us: **

 

[paxvobiscum]

Teach me Your way, O LORD; I will walk in Your truth; Unite my heart to fear Your name.

Maybe you can find these somewhere in your Bible Hint: (NAS)

Your word I have treasured in my heart, That I may not sin against You.

Blessed are You, O LORD; Teach me Your statutes. With my lips I have told of
All the ordinances of Your mouth. I have rejoiced in the way of Your testimonies,
As much as in all riches. I will meditate on Your precepts And regard Your ways.
I shall delight in Your statutes; I shall not forget Your word.

Make me understand the way of Your precepts, So I will meditate on Your wonders

"But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

“God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, {but} you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.

In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation–having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

and on and on it goes.

I just wanted a scripture reference! I guess you prefer a little whiff of arrongance rather than actually assisting. I’m not surprised though, as I’ve said before this is how I have always been “taught” by protestants.
And Catholics DO worship in Spirit and Truth, we believe that the Holy Spirit leads the Church to Truth and that the Holy Spirit is with us as we worship. I truly fail to see how the verses you provided state that scripture is interpreted by the Holy Spirit for the individual alone, but further dialouge on this looks to be a dead end.

 

[Justy90]

The bible never tells us that Mary was sinless all the days of her life and thus is exalted in heaven with the power to hear millions of prayers all at once.

Respectfully,

Chris
Sounds like something specifically reserved for Christ doesn’t it?

 

[izoid]

Prodigal Son,

You misquoted that scripture. Please reread. You wrote it as if the witnesses lay aside. It doesn’t read that way.

Izoid,

I understand that you believe that Mary can hear every prayer that goes to her. I don’t need to read every post for that do I? I’m still wondering where she gets that power. And I would love something more than just “we believe”. I’m not being disrespectful, just asking about scriptural basis to this belief. It’s not a fight, just giving you the average Protestant’s view of Mary. I don’t get it.

Respectfully,

Chris

Read the thread, your question has been answered.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Look I think for you it is great what you believe. No it does not affect my Salvation on iota. I thought this was supposed to be a debate?

Please try to answer the question completely.

Do you think that a person who believes in the perpetual virginity has endangered their salvation?

Playing cat and mouse games with the way you word short responses is not debating…

 

[carpentercb]

Prodigal One,

We could argue the Hebrews text all day, but it sideskirts the question doesn’t it. Let’s say it means that there are heavenly examples all around us, where does it grant Mary her powers to mediate and offers our prayers to God?

Respectfully,

Chris

 

[tweetymom]

The bible never tells us that Mary was sinless all the days of her life and thus is exalted in heaven with the power to hear millions of prayers all at once.

Respectfully,

Chris

Sounds like something specifically reserved for Christ doesn’t it?

Sounds that way to me

 

[izoid]

We are all brothers and sisters in Christ. This is not the Biblical point being made here. Scripture speaks of brothers and sisters in a spiritual sense and it also speaks of the siblings of Christ and calls his brothers by name. It also names some of his brothers in several different verses in the NT.

How do you know they were bilogical and not just followers of His? Where in the Bible does it use the word “bilogical” to describe Jesus’ brothers?

You are clearly differentiating the use of the word brother and I would like you to provide the basis for soing so pleae.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

The bible never tells us that Mary was sinless all the days of her life and thus is exalted in heaven with the power to hear millions of prayers all at once.

Respectfully,

Chris

Sounds like something specifically reserved for Christ doesn’t it?

Do you really think the ark of the new covenant, the vessel, the mother of our Lord, who found God’s favor and was called full of grace by the Angel of the Lord didn’t make it to heaven?

Does the Bible tell us anywhere that Mary sinned?

 

[izoid]

You sound just like a defense attorney trying to muster up a defense for a felon by attempting to create doubt to combat the facts. The Bible never says anything contrary to Joseph and Mary having a normal marriage. Your theory of Mary remaining a virgin her whole life becasue it was possible doesn’t hold hot water.

Of course it doesn’t hold water with you, you are a collindar!

 

[tweetymom]

Please try to answer the question completely.

Do you think that a person who believes in the perpetual virginity has endangered their salvation?

Playing cat and mouse games with the way you word short responses is not debating…

I am not playing cat and mouse. I said it doen’t affect my salvation if I believe Mary was always a Virgin. I do not believe she was but it doen’t matter one way or the other. Now what is it you would like to debate? I don’t cuppose it affects your salvation unless you believe it does.

 

[carpentercb]

Lets look past the whole virgin thing and if you believe she was a virgin all the days of her life. Who cares? Let’s talk about where this belief comes from. I’m just asking for a straight answer. And if you don’t have one, just profess that this is something cooked up my man. Jesus didn’t say that the only way to the Father is through me and my mom. Or that the only way to me is though my mom. Or that your prayers will be more effective if you tell my mom first. I can’t believe that Mary has this power.

Respectfully,

Chris

 

[tweetymom]

Sounds to me like the pretense of been Catholic is ongoing. Now the oxymoronic concept of a ‘little c’ Catholic has arrived on-stage.

It has been there the little cee fo quite awhile.

 

[Justy90]

Sounds like something specifically reserved for Christ doesn’t it?

Do you really think the ark of the new covenant, the vessel, the mother of our Lord, who found God’s favor and was called full of grace by the Angel of the Lord didn’t make it to heaven?

Does the Bible tell us anywhere that Mary sinned?

Yes the Bible does tell us that she sinned and does everyone. Yes that is Biblical FYI.