Why do non catholics dislike Mother Mary?

[Dokimas]

Wasting more thread space again, IMO.

 

[Dokimas]

Indeed, I wonder too. The evidence that we have is incomplete. It sure would be a lot easier if we had more details. The main detail we do have is that Mary remained a virgin. Therefore, whatever the relationships, they must be understood in that light.

Thank you for validating my ‘presupposition’ point.​

BTW, Happy New Year, Guanophore.​

PS, what does your nick mean? Nicks interest me. I think I’ll start a thread for that very question to all. Thanks, G, for the idea.

 

[izoid]

the difference is I dont claim that my church is the right church because it has never been wrong. People who do such horrible things cant be trusted to pass on sound doctrine. Christianity spread across the world while being persecuted. how can anyone believe that becoming the persecutor was necessary to save the church.
My church is nondenominational we believe in the 5 disciplines, Prayer(to God) Giving, fellowship, Bible and ministry. We minister to orphans , widows(mostly in Uganda) addicts and alcoholics, and have a chaplain that goes into our local jail and does weekly services. We have a ministry to mentor troubled youth. and we send out a mission team almost every year. we do this with a congregation of around 200 people.

Can you tell me which doctrines were developed and made dogma by these people? It would help the conversation considerably.

 

[izoid]

no but having been the subject of your misjudgments. I could relate. If you expect a private conversation perhaps a “forum” is not a good place.

My judgement of you as hostile and rude are spot on.

You use inflammatory words to stir negative emotion and others have seen it and commented on it.

 

[izoid]

Yes you can be a baptist pre baptism but a baptist can be clearly shown in Gods word why he should get dunked.

I can join, become a member, of the church without being dunked, without the promise to be dunked?

 

[Dokimas]

My judgement of you as hostile and rude are spot on.

You use inflammatory words to stir negative emotion and others have seen it and commented on it.

And I’d look in a mirror if I were you.​

I suppose I should take my own advice

 

[izoid]

No thats why He gave us the Bible.

Incorrect answer. That is why He gave us the Holy Spirit and His Church.

 

[izoid]

That’s the point, but not completely. Yes, Mary was a vessel. No, God did not let her “go on with life”. He did not leave her as He does not leave us. I’m sure you’ll find her in Heaven, but not as a queen, or not as a queen by herself. Have you not read the Scriptures saying that the Church is the bride of Jesus Christ? Have you not heard that Jesus Christ is one with God? Thus, the Church is the “bride” of God. And it will be the empress or queen of Heaven. Since Mary (I suppose) was part of the Church she will be queen, but not alone. She will be queen with us, at the resurrection.

So no, Mary is not something different. She was a sinner like everyone else. Not pagan, but sinner. She is not more powerful than we are, but she is part of the same Church as we are. She is not the queen of Heaven, but the Church is. God did not leave her; He was with her as He is with us.

This is a misunderstanding of the Biblical idea of queenship. The queen is not the bride of the king, the queen is always the mother of the king. Who was Jesus’ mother?

 

[izoid]

And I’d look in a mirror if I were you.​

I suppose I should take my own advice

As I have admitted already and will do so again; I can be hostile. THe difference is that I am aggressive towards those who come in and make outrageous assertions. I do not enter into a thread with an attitude that I am going to teach you the truth. I only respond to that type of behavior.

Once again, you seem to be more interested in throwing stones than gaining understanding.

 

[Cristian_B]

This is a misunderstanding of the Biblical idea of queenship. The queen is not the bride of the king, the queen is always the mother of the king. Who was Jesus’ mother?

Jesus’ mother is the one who listens to God’s Word and puts it into practice.

 

[Dokimas]

As I have admitted already and will do so again; I can be hostile. THe difference is that I am aggressive towards those who come in and make outrageous assertions. I do not enter into a thread with an attitude that I am going to teach you the truth. I only respond to that type of behavior.

Once again, you seem to be more interested in throwing stones than gaining understanding.

Because of your admission, are you in a place to judge anothers intent?​

I’m not interested in throwing stones. I try to interecpt them and reveal to those who throw them they have done so. However, I’m not self deluded to the point that I think I’m incapable to throwing stones. When I do, I’d hope my side of the ‘isle’ will have the wisdom to tell me so so your side of the ‘isle’ won’t have to.

 

[Dokimas]

Jesus’ mother is the one who listens to God’s Word and puts it into practice.

She sure did. What a wonderful example for all of us. I love the two verses that tells us that Mary took the information given her (which most likely she did not fully understand) and hid the truths in her heart. I have no doubt that hiding the truth about her Son, understood or not, in her heart, was what allowed her the grace to watch her Son die for her sins and for the sins of each and every one of us.

 

[izoid]

Because of your admission, are you in a place to judge anothers intent?​

I’m not interested in throwing stones. I try to interecpt them and reveal to those who throw them they have done so. However, I’m not self deluded to the point that I think I’m incapable to throwing stones. When I do, I’d hope my side of the ‘isle’ will have the wisdom to tell me so so your side of the ‘isle’ won’t have to.

If you go back and read my post you will see that it is the behavior that I judge, not the intent. Over time, the intent become obvious. There are several new members in this thread that are displaying a pattern of hostility and inflammatory posting that I have seen in the past and it has all lead to the same end.

Those people that want to continually claim that the Catholic Church teaches that we worship Mary and that the pope claims to be God and that we support burning people at the stake need to be confronted. There behavior is unacceptable and hostile.

 

[izoid]

This thread and the interactions within it have made our differences even more clear to me. Scripture is filled with language that can lead us into virtually any understanding we choose. It is often times confusing and unclear. Take the issue of Mary and whether she had other children. Both sides can make an argument for their position and can back up their position with scripture.

When we come to this type of situation it all depends on our approach to understanding. Catholics believe that Christ gave us His Church to preserve and teach us the truth. It is through this Church that the fullness of His words, in scripture, are revealed. The protestants believe that they can understand scripture without the help of the church. They are better able to make sense of the confusion than is the church.

I would ask them, the protestants, why do you reject tradition. When you come to an understanding, why do you not rely on historical understanding to help guide you? If the very earliest of churches believed that Mary was ever virgin, what makes you confident that for 2000 years the church was wrong? Is it a threat to admit that the Church, since it’s inception, has taught truth and that you can learn from that truth?

We are discussing Mary here but there are many, many doctrines and practices that have existed from the 1st and 2nd century that you all deny. These practices do not contradict scripture yet you feel compelled to demean them. Why is this?

 

[paxvobiscum]

snip I included his name in the signature because he said it and I certainly would like to give honor where honor is due.
snip
In Him,
Janet

I was catching up on this thread by e-mail when I came across this statement. It knocked my slippers off! We Catholics like to give honor where honor is due also, and that is why we honor Mary. Any and all doctrines concerning Mary are not so scary once you REALLY search them. I definately had to because I had numerous concerns and misgivings regarding the Marian doctrines. I now realize that nothing the Church teaches takes away from Jesus, it adds to His divinity! If our Lord can do the things the Church teaches about Mary TO Mary or WITH Mary then I have even more hope that a wretched sinner such as myself will see heaven at the end of this life’s journey.

And just to respond to the OP; it’s a matter of trust! The protestants I know are so wary of the Catholic Church because they have been taught that it is a huge worldwide pagan brainwashing organisation. If the Church teaches a certain thing then it must be looked at as false or a way of “covering up the actual anti-christian teachings”. You either believe that the CC has Jesus’s commission as the root and cause of all things; or you believe that it doesn’t and work to bring those “caught in the treachery” out.
Just as we Catholics sincerely hope and pray that some word from us will enlighten those we encounter, so do Protestants. The Marian doctrines are a lightening rod for comments because they are usually the most easliy disproved and the hardest to defend by protestant standard, scripture alone. I can honestly say that no protestant I know dislikes Mary, however they are ABHORRED by the thought that she is worshipped and that anger and disgust is what we hear when thay speak of “Mary worship”.

 

[izoid]

I was catching up on this thread by e-mail when I came across this statement. It knocked my slippers off! We Catholics like to give honor where honor is due also, and that is why we honor Mary. Any and all doctrines concerning Mary are not so scary once you REALLY search them. I definately had to because I had numerous concerns and misgivings regarding the Marian doctrines. I now realize that nothing the Church teaches takes away from Jesus, it adds to His divinity! If our Lord can do the things the Church teaches about Mary TO Mary or WITH Mary then I have even more hope that a wretched sinner such as myself will see heaven at the end of this life’s journey.

And just to respond to the OP; it’s a matter of trust! The protestants I know are so wary of the Catholic Church because they have been taught that it is a huge worldwide pagan brainwashing organisation. If the Church teaches a certain thing then it must be looked at as false or a way of “covering up the actual anti-christian teachings”. You either believe that the CC has Jesus’s commission as the root and cause of all things; or you believe that it doesn’t and work to bring those “caught in the treachery” out.
Just as we Catholics sincerely hope and pray that some word from us will enlighten those we encounter, so do Protestants. The Marian doctrines are a lightening rod for comments because they are usually the most easliy disproved and the hardest to defend by protestant standard, scripture alone. I can honestly say that no protestant I know dislikes Mary, however they are ABHORRED by the thought that she is worshipped and that anger and disgust is what we hear when thay speak of “Mary worship”.

Thank you very much for your post. It sum up my past understanding of, and feeling towards, the Catholic Church.

Very well said.

 

[paxvobiscum]

Thank you very much for your post. It sum up my past understanding of, and feeling towards, the Catholic Church.

Very well said.

Thank You I’m a revert myself so I’ve been there, done that.
I’ve been a member of CAF for 5 1/2 yrs and very rarely post, but this got me for some reason.

 

[Teneas]

I think I have. It hadn’t occurred to me that Mary must hear millions of prayers per minute that doesnt seem possible for a human, maybe a god. But they dont worship her. I am more convinced than ever that there is no scriptural support for the Catholic version of Mary. But that doesnt matter because tradition seems to carry more wait than the Bible. I still dont dislike Mary, I look forward to meeting her. I didn’t realize they believe she was sinless.

At least you are seeing what we believe.

I would remind you that the scriptural version of Mary, as you call it, is a version where she is the MOTHER OF GOD. only capped to emphasis

It’s good that you believe we don’t worship her, because we do not.

The scripture vs. tradition is saved for another thread.

Either way, learn and draw your own conclusions of course.

 

[PRmerger]

What you are called is irrelevant what matters is that your name is written in the Lambs book of life.
Belief is what is required for salvation but that belief will bring about action. if it doesn’t bring about action then you better take a hard look at whether you really believe.

Indeed, MRL. That’s very Catholic of you to say that!

But don’t forget all these other verses in Scripture that tell us what’s required for our salvation: (like Baptism, eating His Flesh and drinking His Blood)

We are saved…

By believing in Christ (Jn 3:16; Acts 16:31)

By repentance (Acts 2:38; 2 Pet 3:9)

By baptism (Jn 3:5; 1 Pet 3:21; Titus 3:5)

By the work of the Spirit (Jn 3:5; 2 Cor 3:6)

By declaring with our mouths (Lk 12:8; Rom 10:9)

By coming to a knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:4; Heb 10:26)

By works (Rom 2:6-7; James 2:24)

By grace (Acts 15:11; Eph 2:8)

By his blood (Rom 5:9; Heb 9:22)

By his righteousness (Rom 5:17; 2 Pet 1:1)

By his Cross (Eph 2:16; Col 2:14)

By eating His flesh (John 6)

 

[tweetymom]

As I have admitted already and will do so again; I can be hostile. THe difference is that I am aggressive towards those who come in and make outrageous assertions. I do not enter into a thread with an attitude that I am going to teach you the truth. I only respond to that type of behavior.

Once again, you seem to be more interested in throwing stones than gaining understanding.

Agreed that you are hostile.