Why do non-Catholics send missionaries to Hispanic Catholics?

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JesusforMadrid said:
Why do Roman Catholics want Protestants and lapsed Roman Catholics to “come home to Rome”?
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Catholics believe that the Body of Christ should be unified, and as a result, strive to reunite the Body of Christ. However, Catholics do believe that Protestants are Christians.

What worries me, and a lot of other people on the forum, is that the Protestant missionaries refuse to see Catholics as Christians, and see the Catholic Church the same way they see Jehovah’s Witnesses or Mormons. The Catholics on the forum want to know that if a Protestant missionary meets a devout Catholic in another country, they will believe that the person is a Christian.

My mother used to attend a Protestant church where Catholic beliefs were referred to as “idolatry and blasphemy.” The church refused to perform marriages between a Catholic and Protestant, because they felt that Catholics were not Christians.
 
JesusforMadrid said:
Many on Catholic Answers cite the Roman Church as the “one true faith” and claim that great Evangelical leaders such as Charles Wesley or Billy Graham will burn in hell. Fair enough, but hardly the attitude that you espouse whereby Roman Catholics consider Evangelicals “sincere fellow Christians”.
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This belief is contrary to the teachings of the Church. The Church teaches that people who do not know that the Catholic Church is the Church that Christ established, and continue to strive to obey God and respond to the graces that He has given them, can be saved.
 
valient_Lucy said:
This belief is contrary to the teachings of the Church. The Church teaches that people who do not know that the Catholic Church is the Church that Christ established, and continue to strive to obey God and respond to the graces that He has given them, can be saved.
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This is partially correct, the Church has always believed itself, and still does, to be the One True Church, this is a popular myth that somehow this belief has changed, it has not, but as you say, the Church does believe that it is the fountain of all Graces, flowing upon the earth, and through the mystery of this Grace, others can be saved. That is the mission of the True Church, to be the mediator of Gods Grace for the salvation of souls. In the Creed we say, “We believe in the ONE, HOLY AND APOSTOLIC CHURCH”. I’ve also had experiences with newer Protestant denominations re-evangelizing ‘good’ Catholics believing them not to be Christians at all, following a cult. The Roman Catholic church is Cultic in it’s practice, but not a cult in the same vain as JW’s.
 
artist3189 said:
This is partially correct, the Church has always believed itself, and still does, to be the One True Church, this is a popular myth that somehow this belief has changed, it has not, but as you say, the Church does believe that it is the fountain of all Graces, flowing upon the earth, and through the mystery of this Grace, others can be saved. That is the mission of the True Church, to be the mediator of Gods Grace for the salvation of souls. In the Creed we say, “We believe in the ONE, HOLY AND APOSTOLIC CHURCH”. I’ve also had experiences with newer Protestant denominations re-evangelizing ‘good’ Catholics believing them not to be Christians at all, following a cult. The Roman Catholic church is Cultic in it’s practice, but not a cult in the same vain as JW’s.
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It was not my intention to explain how a non-Catholic could be saved, or the Church’s role in the salvation of non-Catholics, or to somehow deny that the Catholic Church is the Church that Christ founded.

I merely wanted to point out that the Catholic Church does not categorically state that every single non-Catholic is doomed to Hell.
 
valient_Lucy said:
It was not my intention to explain how a non-Catholic could be saved, or the Church’s role in the salvation of non-Catholics, or to somehow deny that the Catholic Church is the Church that Christ founded.

I merely wanted to point out that the Catholic Church does not categorically state that every single non-Catholic is doomed to Hell.
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Got it, thanks!
 
JesusforMadrid said:
Why do Roman Catholics want Protestants and lapsed Roman Catholics to “come home to Rome”?
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I think that’s wrong, both sides want the other to “Come home to Jesus”. Catholics say Protestant church’s don’t understand the basics of the Bible(which by the way was originally compiled by the Church in Rome) and therefore Jesus and his church.

Protestants of cause, say the same thing, only with the names reversed.
 
artist3189 said:
This is partially correct, the Church has always believed itself, and still does, to be the One True Church, this is a popular myth that somehow this belief has changed, it has not, but as you say, the Church does believe that it is the fountain of all Graces, flowing upon the earth, and through the mystery of this Grace, others can be saved. That is the mission of the True Church, to be the mediator of Gods Grace for the salvation of souls. In the Creed we say, “We believe in the ONE, HOLY AND APOSTOLIC CHURCH”. I’ve also had experiences with newer Protestant denominations re-evangelizing ‘good’ Catholics believing them not to be Christians at all, following a cult. The Roman Catholic church is Cultic in it’s practice, but not a cult in the same vain as JW’s.
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The Catholic church is not a Cult, it is arguably a Sect, but even so, not in the negative context of the word. Christianity was a Sect itself, in fact most religions start off as Sects of other religions, in the case of Christianity, this was of cause Judaism as Jesus was Jewish.

Christianity, no thanks to Luther, is now a religion which is Sectarian itself in its nature. It is now not a unified Religion in its entire belief system even though some protestant “pastors” would have you think otherwise. People who are in a Sect of a religion believe the common principles to follow that particular religion, but also believe something extra on top of that which does not alter the interpretation of the previous beliefs, this is. A cult is a small religion entirely of itself,. i.e not sectarian in nature. For example, Scientology. It is a Religion(as all cults are), but it’s a cult too. And Jehovahs witnesses are also the same because they deny the basic tenant of Christianity that Christ was the Son of God. They are Christians by pure definition of the word, and they are not part of the christian religion themselves in the basic tenant sense, only in Definition(this also covers Mormons).

Judaism and Islam are not sectarian by nature, but they are also not cultic because they have large numbers(which separates a cult from a Religion), Generally the beliefs of these two are pretty streamlined, even though there can exist sects within.

If one looks at the basic combining beliefs of the entire christian world, you would certainly understand that the Catholics are in fact also Christians.
They believe in Jesus being the son of god
They believe in his Crucifixion(for our trangressions), Resurrection and the subsequent resurrection of ourselves at the end of time.
They believe in the Holy Trinity
They believe in the bible being authored(or at least inspired by) by God.

I think these are quite representational of the combined basic beliefs of the Christian faith, and because they are held by the Catholics, they are Christians in the biggest of the many thousands of Christian Sects(or denominations if you will).
 
colliric said:
The Catholic church is not a Cult, it is arguably a Sect, but even so, not in the negative context of the word. Christianity was a Sect itself, in fact most religions start off as Sects of other religions, in the case of Christianity, this was of cause Judaism as Jesus was Jewish.

Christianity, no thanks to Luther, is now a religion which is Sectarian itself in its nature. It is now not a unified Religion in its entire belief system even though some protestant “pastors” would have you think otherwise. People who are in a Sect of a religion believe the common principles to follow that particular religion, but also believe something extra on top of that which does not alter the interpretation of the previous beliefs, this is. A cult is a small religion entirely of itself,. i.e not sectarian in nature. For example, Scientology. It is a Religion(as all cults are), but it’s a cult too. And Jehovahs witnesses are also the same because they deny the basic tenant of Christianity that Christ was the Son of God. They are Christians by pure definition of the word, and they are not part of the christian religion themselves in the basic tenant sense, only in Definition(this also covers Mormons).

Judaism and Islam are not sectarian by nature, but they are also not cultic because they have large numbers(which separates a cult from a Religion), Generally the beliefs of these two are pretty streamlined, even though there can exist sects within.

If one looks at the basic combining beliefs of the entire christian world, you would certainly understand that the Catholics are in fact also Christians.
They believe in Jesus being the son of god
They believe in his Crucifixion(for our trangressions), Resurrection and the subsequent resurrection of ourselves at the end of time.
They believe in the Holy Trinity
They believe in the bible being authored(or at least inspired by) by God.

I think these are quite representational of the combined basic beliefs of the Christian faith, and because they are held by the Catholics, they are Christians in the biggest of the many thousands of Christian Sects(or denominations if you will).
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The only thing I would add to this is, I believe that religious theology, by its’ very nature, lends itself to sectarianism. And that includes Jews and Muslims. Even cults like the JW’s and Mormons have splits, and sects and branches now, even within only a few 100 years of their founding. Judaisms was sectarian even during Christs time, very much so. Islam has also become the same way. Christianity is the most sectarian of all and my feeling is, that is why a strong unified theological understanding, teaching authority, historical lineage, repository of unchanging core beliefs is essential. The Catholic Church has this. In it’s infancy, it was awash in sects and cults…Arians, Donatists, Manichean’s, Gnostic’s, and on and on. Now we have 30-40,000 Christian sects with no end in site, mostly Christian based to some degree, all with their own opinions and teachings. The very pinnacle of sectarianism.
 
artist3189 said:
The only thing I would add to this is, I believe that religious theology, by its’ very nature, lends itself to sectarianism. And that includes Jews and Muslims. Even cults like the JW’s and Mormons have splits, and sects and branches now, even within only a few 100 years of their founding. Judaisms was sectarian even during Christs time, very much so. Islam has also become the same way. Christianity is the most sectarian of all and my feeling is, that is why a strong unified theological understanding, teaching authority, historical lineage, repository of unchanging core beliefs is essential. The Catholic Church has this. In it’s infancy, it was awash in sects and cults…Arians, Donatists, Manichean’s, Gnostic’s, and on and on. Now we have 30-40,000 Christian sects with no end in site, mostly Christian based to some degree, all with their own opinions and teachings. The very pinnacle of sectarianism.
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See? The Reformation was good for the Catholic Church. Now, instead of being within the Church, all the sects and cults are outside of the Church. 😉
 
Contarini said:
No, but you do post lies about evangelicals on the forum, such as the first statement in your post quoted above. Evangelicals as a whole do not think that Catholics as a whole are damned to hell. (BTW, I don’t think you were deliberately lying. But neither are the evangelicals who say false things about Catholicism deliberately lying, on the whole.)

artist3189 apparently can’t see the difference between saying “there may be Christians in the RCC” and saying “there are no Christians in the RCC,” even though on the face of it those are obviously different statements. JesusforMadrid’s phrasing is a relatively polemical version–more common is “some Catholics are Christians” or “Catholics can be Christians.”

These statements sound offensive because you misunderstand what evangelicals mean by “Christians.” A “Christian” in normal evangelical usage is a person in a state of grace. Translate the above into “some Catholics are in a state of grace” and it is a perfectly accurate, orthodox statement. The Catholic Church does not teach that all Catholics are automatically in a state of grace or that all Catholics will go to heaven. So you have no reason to be offended when evangelicals say that not all Catholics are going to heaven. Even when folks like JesusforMadrid express doubts as to how many Catholics are in a state of grace and put Catholicism at the bottom of the list of churches they’d like to see people join, they are doing no more than conservative Catholics do with regard to Baptists, say.

I repeat what I said earlier–for most evangelicals, the Church is simply an instrument for saving souls (and I completely agree that this is a horribly inadequate concept of the Church). If the Catholic Church is doing a bad job, then evangelicals have no reservations about pitching in.

And there’s no reasonable dispute that Catholicism does on the whole do a rather bad job of “internal evangelism.” Not as bad as evangelicals think (because they judge by their own narrow and culturally limited standards), but bad enough in all conscience. I don’t think the methods evangelical Protestants use to deal with that situation are the right ones, but the plain fact is that many of the people evangelicals convert in Catholic countries are not people who are leading a good Christian life by any standard.

Edwin
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I think one of the concerns that some Catholics have, in regards to the Evangelical’s view of Catholics being Christians, is a belief among some Evangelicals that Catholics are Christians in spite of what the Church teaches, and not because of it. In other words, Catholics have never heard the Gospel, or are given another gospel.

Obviously, not every Evangelical thinks that way. My mother, who has spent a lot of time in Evangelical circles, does believe that Catholics are Christians and that the Catholic Church does preach the gospel. She went to a Catholic funeral on Saturday, and told me that, in her opinion, a Catholic who attends Mass and says that he has never heard the gospel wasn’t paying attention.

Obviously, not all Evangelicals think that Catholics are not Christians. But there are some who think that way, and that bothers many people.

Anyway, it’s always great to read your posts Contarini.
 
Lee wrote
. There also are several seventh day adventists churches and Jehovah Witnesses as well. When I meet Protestant missionaries from the states and I tell them I am Catholic, they wince and practically stop talking to me. I really wish someone would light a fire under that butts of Catholics in the states. Wake up and do something!!! We need a missionary training center for Catholics. Why not?
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Originally Posted by rr1213
If Edwin converts, then where will be the rational, reasonable voice on the Protestant side of the fence?
valient_Lucy said:
You’re right! He can’t convert! 😛
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Sure he can, he can do BOTH…just watch The Journey Home on EWTN, converts know both sides, 🙂 he’d be perfect!!!
 
We should give hispanic Catholics the inspiration and prayers they need to overcome the Evil One who works through these protestant “missionaries”.
 
Caesar said:
We should give hispanic Catholics the inspiration and prayers they need to overcome the Evil One who works through these protestant “missionaries”.
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I am sure that the Devil is delighted when non believing Hispanics put their faith in God, make Jesus their Lord, denounce sin, become baptised and seek to make the world better. He absolutely loves that sort of thing, I think.
 
What really bothers me is all these Catholic missionaries from Spain that are being sent to Anglo Saxon Protestant countries.

I know a woman who is an Opus Dei Roman Catholic who is spending her years in the US at a large university trying to convert Protestants to the “one true faith”. I think this is despicable.
 
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