No, its more complicated than that. One has to know and understand the Church’s position entirely, and then one has to knowingly take a position that denies that authority, and then one has to be told to cease taking the position they are taking. You can be heterodox without being a heretic and the Church.
OK, let’s say I’m wrong here (which I concede is very possible). We can simply swap out “heretic” with “proto-heretic” or “dissenter” or “rebel” or something along those lines and it doesn’t really change the thrust of what I’m saying. I’m accusing many-to-most Catholics of being poor Catholics, not of possessing a peculiar canonical status, after all.
My objection is that the sort of people who enter into discussions in order to confidently bellow “I am right and you are wrong. [Insert snarky sarcastic comment about “typical dumb liberal”]
” do not make for an enjoyable discussion.
OK, but I don’t know of anyone doing anything like that. I certainly don’t do it, and I’m one of the less patient ones around here. And at any rate, yet-another-thread-on-contraception (out of like 1,000) when people still haven’t learned anything or recovered from the hurt feelings caused by the last 999 isn’t exactly enjoyable either.
But, whatever. I don’t confidently bellow anything. When a Catholic attacks the Church, its shepherds, or its teachings, I simply state the truth and try to explain it. When that fails I remind them they have an obligation to give assent to the Church’s teachings even when they cannot understand their basis. And when people harden their hearts against these claims, I usually walk away. I do this all the time here.
Sometimes I lose my temper and say something nasty. I usually get warnings from the mods when that happens. I haven’t done that in this thread to my knowledge.
People lose their tempers sometimes. It happens. It happens to me more often because I’ve got a bit of a bad temper (which itself requires a long story). My point in responding to you the first time was to clarify that it isn’t hatred or pride, as you claim, that drives me and some other posters to criticize, for instance, cafeteria Catholics. It’s sorrow, anger, and frustration at those who attack the Church in harsh terms – usually so they can rationalize their own decisions to sin – when they owe it a debt of loyalty and obedience. That’s my mother they’re attacking, after all.
It was obviously hyperbole? In a post where you called the beliefs of a great many people to be evil nonsense?
I was talking about the “true religion” of cafeteria Catholics bit. Again, obviously that’s hyperbole – given that liberalism is not a religion in anything but the loosest metaphorical sense.
Yes, the rationale employed by, for instance, pro-contraceptives or pro-gay “marriage” dissenters from the magisterium of the Church is both evil and nonsensical. It is not good and it is lacking reason.
I don’t know what you want of me. People who obstinately refuse to give full assent of faith to the teachings of the Church, even when the rationale for it is explained to them repeatedly, even when they admit that their consciences are well-formed on the topic, aren’t entitled to my respect of their beliefs. Their beliefs are literally, at that point, beneath respect. That’s why I generally disengage from them when they refuse to repent of their errors. It’s also why I occasionally lose my temper and snap at them.
Well, sorry. I was talking about Catholics, not Protestants.
My beef with Protestants is a whole separate issue, but as I said above, my expectations of them are lower; I expect more of Catholics because they have a much fuller inheritance in the Church they’re attacking than do Protestants.
Ah, the old “You must have an evil motive for disagreeing with me” argument.
Nope, just inquiring. I think I got my answer, though.
So what, then, is the point of a forum? For a bunch of people to sit around talking about how happy they are that they don’t have to be around people who think differently than they do?
What is the point of this particular forum? I think it’s pretty implicit in the title: for people to seek answers consistent with the Catholic faith. This includes those curious about esoteric points of theology or mysticism, those who want to understand this or that teaching better, those on the outside looking in wishing to understand Catholicism better, or even just those wishing to talk about Catholic news, issues, relevant personal stories, etc. In other words, it is a forum for understanding and inquiry.
Note that my formulation above, to seek answers consistent with the Catholic faith, pretty clearly excludes those who deny those answers. It’s not that I’m against atheists or heretics/proto-heretics/whatever you want to call them posting here. It’s that I’m against them aggressively advertising their beliefs in an attempt to seduce faithful Catholics (often those that come here struggling with some difficulty) to apostasy, schism, or heresy.
If you don’t like the rules, then please feel free to start up your own forum and then you can determine what is appropriate.