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kimg901
Guest
started the CC? This is something that just popped into my mind and I have to ask. Scripture states that Jesus started it with Peter. Why is there others that believe He did not?
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GEddie
Guest
Because if they admit that HE did, it would behoove them to become Catholic or Orthodox; they may not be ready to do so.
ICXC NIKA
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stephe1987
Guest
It could be that they are not ready to become Catholic. Some of them do believe that Jesus started the Church through Peter but something in their life is stopping them. Maybe their family and/or friends are very anti-Catholic or anti-religion.
Or… anti-Catholic indoctrination. They are taught that the Church is evil, the Pope is the anti-Christ, etc. They are blinded by hatred. Or they are unable to view the Bible as a whole and choose select verses (out of context) to justify why they cannot become Catholic.
Or they are convinced the Church is evil because of the scandals. Sadly, every church has scandals and they are tragic and of course we should help the victims and take steps to make sure things like it never happen again. But the fact that humans are sinners does not negate what Jesus did.
Or… anti-Catholic indoctrination. They are taught that the Church is evil, the Pope is the anti-Christ, etc. They are blinded by hatred. Or they are unable to view the Bible as a whole and choose select verses (out of context) to justify why they cannot become Catholic.
Or they are convinced the Church is evil because of the scandals. Sadly, every church has scandals and they are tragic and of course we should help the victims and take steps to make sure things like it never happen again. But the fact that humans are sinners does not negate what Jesus did.
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AloysiusBologna
Guest
Do people refute?
Perhaps Jesus did not establish the Church?? Perhaps it was Christ…or the Holy Ghost or the Holy Spirit or God Himself?..one of those fiery tongues or doves…
Kephatic Translation.?..Speaking in Tongues? ,
Jesus said to him in reply, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
Note last sentence above…pretty good reason to make a good confession…?
:blush:Sorry, I couldn’t help …Well, let me know what you truth you find…
**Saint Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle.
Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil.
May God rebuke him, we humbly pray; and do Thou,
O Prince of the Heavenly Host by the Divine Power of God,
cast into hell, satan and all the evil spirits, who roam throughout the world seeking the ruin of souls. Amen.
**
Perhaps Jesus did not establish the Church?? Perhaps it was Christ…or the Holy Ghost or the Holy Spirit or God Himself?..one of those fiery tongues or doves…
Kephatic Translation.?..Speaking in Tongues? ,
Jesus said to him in reply, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
Note last sentence above…pretty good reason to make a good confession…?
:blush:Sorry, I couldn’t help …Well, let me know what you truth you find…
**Saint Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle.
Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil.
May God rebuke him, we humbly pray; and do Thou,
O Prince of the Heavenly Host by the Divine Power of God,
cast into hell, satan and all the evil spirits, who roam throughout the world seeking the ruin of souls. Amen.
**
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boomerang
Guest
Willful ignorance. 
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concretecamper
Guest
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Nicea325
Guest
Well actually Jesus started the church and passed His authority to the 12 and they to bishops…Catholics/Orthodoxs…etc.
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dronald
Guest
I always assumed that the rock was the statement of faith that Peter confessed.
I believe that’s the official Protestant stance.
I believe that’s the official Protestant stance.
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Nicea325
Guest
Yes…but unfortunately…historically it has little support. Peter did not confess his faith or his faith led him to confess,but what did Jesus say to him?
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Gabriel_of_12
Guest
That refute or debate that Jesus did not build His Church upon Peter = Rock, does not come into question until post-Constantinople when the Roman Emperor secular authority began to intervene with authority of the Bishops from the Eastern Church’s and selecting them to be Patriarchs in his new capital Constantinople. It is then that the Patriarchs of Constantinople begins to usurp power from the original apostolic sees such as Jerusalem, Antioch, Alexandria, but failed to usurp authority over the bishop of Rome St.Peter’s apostolic successors.Thus the schism.
The protestants’ take on this sentiment of “refute” from post-Constantinople which refutes Jesus building his church upon Peter= Rock and change Jesus words to mean, he build’s his church upon Peter’s faith only along with the other apostles who never make the confession Peter did. We cannot neglect the fact that Peter’s faith denied the Lord three times.
The CCC teaches it is both, that Jesus begins to build his church first from Peter’s confession and upon Peter himself by giving Peter alone the keys to the kingdom of heaven.
Jesus not only builds his church upon Peter while he walked the earth. Jesus commands Peter to feed and tend his flock until he returns after Jesus resurrected from the dead and before he ascended to heaven (see John 21:15-17)
Peace be with you
The protestants’ take on this sentiment of “refute” from post-Constantinople which refutes Jesus building his church upon Peter= Rock and change Jesus words to mean, he build’s his church upon Peter’s faith only along with the other apostles who never make the confession Peter did. We cannot neglect the fact that Peter’s faith denied the Lord three times.
The CCC teaches it is both, that Jesus begins to build his church first from Peter’s confession and upon Peter himself by giving Peter alone the keys to the kingdom of heaven.
Jesus not only builds his church upon Peter while he walked the earth. Jesus commands Peter to feed and tend his flock until he returns after Jesus resurrected from the dead and before he ascended to heaven (see John 21:15-17)
Peace be with you
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mackbrislawn
Guest
Yes, it is possible that the church that ended up is not the one that Jesus intended. However, it is that church that has passed on belief in Jesus. Without that church no one would know about Jesus at all! And then the written documents about Jesus were selected by that non-intended church–so you can see the quandary we are put into if we indulge in that kind of thinking.
So, we have to assume that Jesus and the Holy Spirit did lead the apostles and successive Christians to retain the intended church. The alternative is to give it all up as a bad job.
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