Why do people think that Catholics and Non-Catholic Christians in the United States are not being persecuted?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Holly3278
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
H

Holly3278

Guest
Hey everyone. I keep seeing some people saying that Catholics and non-Catholic Christians here in the United States are not being persecuted. This is simply not true. We most certainly are being persecuted. The USCCB even said so as regards the HHS Mandate. There is also the fact that Christians are being sued for practicing their religious beliefs by justly discriminating against immoral activities such as “same-sex marriage”.

Inevitably when they talk about this they always say that if we want to see real persecution we should look to the Middle East. Okay, it’s true that in the Middle East and other places such as North Korea that there are far worse forms of persecution. However, just because the persecution here does not include martyrdoms and such that does not mean we are not being persecuted.
 
An 80% majority is being persecuted, you say? :banghead:

Just to avoid confusion, is that the same group whose god is printed on the money and written in the pledge? Is it the same group whose celebrations are recognized as national holidays?
 
Hate to break it to you but you never had the right to decide what “just discrimination” is that was always the government’s job. That isn’t even persecution that’s being expected to follow the law just like everyone else. Now if you’re being denied service or a job because of your faith then you can cry discrimination.
 
Blitzwing said:
Hate to break it to you but you never had the right to decide what “just discrimination” is that was always the government’s job. That isn’t even persecution that’s being expected to follow the law just like everyone else. Now if you’re being denied service or a job because of your faith then you can cry discrimination.
Click to expand...
Do you have 100% trust in the government to do this job effectively?
 
Holly3278 said:
Hey everyone. I keep seeing some people saying that Catholics and non-Catholic Christians here in the United States are not being persecuted. This is simply not true. We most certainly are being persecuted.
Click to expand...
Really? Then explain how the following is possible:
The closest any state has come to holding the hierarchy accountable was in New Hampshire and Arizona. Both [bishops], signed agreements acknowledging there was sufficient evidence to prosecute them for their roles in shielding abusive priests. In exchange for immunity, those bishops agreed to submit to civil oversight of their child-protection policies.
Click to expand...
bishop-accountability.org/news2003_07_12/2003_07_23_McNamara_ProsecutorsNot.htm

So let me get this straight. The state has evidence to prosecute bishops for criminal conspiracy. But instead of prosecuting them (which it is supposed to do, persecution or not), it offers them immunity in exchange for some oversight measures… And the state is supposedly hell-bent on destroying the Catholic Church?

And… it is the same state which will throw people in jail for pot. So the situation is basically equivalent to letting a leader of a drug ring off the hook in exchange for “oversight”. When was the last time you’ve seen this happen?

If the Catholic Church is persecuted, then pot users are being martyred.
 
Holly3278 said:
Hey everyone. I keep seeing some people saying that Catholics and non-Catholic Christians here in the United States are not being persecuted.
Click to expand...
That’s because they’re not being persecuted. We are completely free to practice our religion. What we are not free to do, is make others practice our religion or confine them by the rules of our religion. Freedom does not mean controlling the actions of others. It means controlling our own actions.
Holly3278 said:
Inevitably when they talk about this they always say that if we want to see real persecution we should look to the Middle East.
Click to expand...
That is correct. Christians being persecuted are not able to practice their religion safely without risking harm or death. We here in the US do not experience this.
 
Please, let’s not turn the conversation into yet another tirade about the 1900s sexual scandals in the Catholic Church!

As concerns the OP’s question, it’s hard to credibly cry “persecution” because of losing some of our historical privileges, while 8,000 miles away, followers of our LORD are losing their heads.

ICXC NIKA
 
Holly3278 said:
Hey everyone. I keep seeing some people saying that Catholics and non-Catholic Christians here in the United States are not being persecuted. This is simply not true. We most certainly are being persecuted. The USCCB even said so as regards the HHS Mandate. There is also the fact that Christians are being sued for practicing their religious beliefs by justly discriminating against immoral activities such as “same-sex marriage”.
Click to expand...
Persecution is the systematic mistreatment of one group by another. I don’t think that’s what is being demonstrated in the example of the Health Care Mandate. I don’t think the health care bill was completely or in part drafted to target specific religious groups. Also knowing that some one labels themselves as “Catholic” or “Christian” isn’t a strong indication that a person is opposed to birth control ; In a survey the Pew research center found that 76% of Catholics indicated that they think the Catholic Church should permit birth control. With a majority of people in the USA identifying as following some form of Christianity and the 72.8% prevalence of contraception it doesn’t seem that a majority of Christians are opposed to it. This isn’t an issue that seems to suggest persecution of Christians.
 
GEddie said:
Please, let’s not turn the conversation into yet another tirade about the 1900s sexual scandals in the Catholic Church!
Click to expand...
I’m just pointing out that the surprising leniency exhibited by law enforcement in case of clerical crimes does not fit with supposed “persecution”.
 
Oreoracle said:
An 80% majority is being persecuted, you say? :banghead:

Just to avoid confusion, is that the same group whose god is printed on the money and written in the pledge? Is it the same group whose celebrations are recognized as national holidays?
Click to expand...
While I agree with you on the above, I do want to bring up something, since you mentioned the national holidays – I have never heard an atheist say “since I object to this on principle, I’m refusing the paid day off work.”

Does anyone? (really, I mean this as a serious question, not a snarky one. I truly do wonder about this.)
 
agnes_therese said:
I have never heard an atheist say “since I object to this on principle, I’m refusing the paid day off work.”
Click to expand...
True, but this is consistent with atheism. I think atheists just take Christmas as an excuse to celebrate, as with other holidays. It’s reminiscent of life at college; you don’t really need a “reason” to party, partying just occurs for its own sake. Whatever reason that’s given is just a contrivance.

The fact that “Christmas” is just a label is best exemplified by the fact that Christians based it off of the Winter Solstice, a Pagan celebration. The idea of meeting with your relatives in late December to feast and exchange gifts with decorations such as evergreen trees and stars was a Pagan custom. So Christians basically just took a Pagan product, scratched off the label, and wrote “Christmas” on it.
 
Christians in North America are not being persecuted. When you compare what is happening at the hands of Islamist and Zionist extremists in the Middle East and Africa, we are at most being inconvenienced.

Bishops, priests and nuns are being kidnapped and murdered. Churches are being set on fire and razed. Their homes are being seized and destroyed. Children are shot dead in the streets on their way home from Christian services. That is persecution.

Prayer for the Middle East

God, Our Father,
have mercy on the Middle East.

Your faithful servants – young and old alike –
are called to witness to Christ.
May they be strengthened during this time of turmoil
as they seek to follow your beloved Son,
who Himself walked their ancient homelands.

In union with Benedict, our Pope,
we pray that Christians in the Middle East
may be enabled to live their Faith in full freedom.
Embolden them to act as instruments
of peace and reconciliation,
united with all the citizens of their countries.
Through Jesus Christ, Our Lord,

Amen

Prayer for Aid to the Church in Need by Coptic Catholic Patriarch Cardinal Antonios Naguib of Alexandria, Egypt.
 
Christians in North America are not being persecuted. When you compare what is happening at the hands of Islamist and Zionist extremists in the Middle East and Africa, we are at most being inconvenienced.
Click to expand...
Concur with what you say, except that “Zionists” aren’t doing it.

To the extent that Christians in Israeli - held square mileage are undergoing hardship, it is because they share an ethnicity with the Muslim majority, not because they are Christian.

It is still arguably wrong, but it is not religious persecution. No one risks neck or freedom by being Christian in Israel; compare to most of the Muslim orbit.

ICXC NIKA
 
Oreoracle said:
True, but this is consistent with atheism. I think atheists just take Christmas as an excuse to celebrate, as with other holidays. It’s reminiscent of life at college; you don’t really need a “reason” to party, partying just occurs for its own sake. Whatever reason that’s given is just a contrivance.
Click to expand...
Saint Patricks day and 5 of May (Cinco de Mayo) are two other holidays that come to mind. People use those as opportunities to party and drink irrespective of knowing the origins of the holiday. I’m not Hindu, but I’ve engaged in Diwali celebrations with coworkers.

Christmas depending on the type of work some one does working on Christmas may simply not be practical. In some of the places I’ve worked in the past working on Christmas (I’ve done it before, as well as working on New Years and other holidays) has required special access to be set up to get into the building. If problems come up (ex: Internet goes down) there’s no one available on staff to look into it. For buildings with automated lighting the lights may be deactivated and the climate control systems may be at uncomfortable settings. And when the work being done requires the cooperation of others it may not be possible to get something done until those others come back. Though in more recent years in the retail industry I’ve been seeing more and more stores open by Christmas evening staffed with workers.
 
Rence said:
That’s because they’re not being persecuted. We are completely free to practice our religion. What we are not free to do, is make others practice our religion or confine them by the rules of our religion. Freedom does not mean controlling the actions of others. It means controlling our own actions.

That is correct. Christians being persecuted are not able to practice their religion safely without risking harm or death. We here in the US do not experience this.
Click to expand...
EXACTLY! I do not want Catholics to end up sounding like my acquaintances who are LDS (Mormon) and continuously whine about how persecuted and discriminated against they are. Rence is right - look at those Christians in Iraq and then try to justify how Catholics are persecuted at all in the US.
 
There is a vast difference between things not going your way, especially concerning politics, and persecution. Christians are not being persecuted in the U.S.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top