Why do protestant denominations hardly talk about saints?

[Publisher]

We do…in fact Friends are encouraged to read the stories of those who have gone on before…one of our “Queries” asks if we read the Bible on a regular basis as well as the lives of those Friends who have come before us…I enjoy “Book of Quaker Saints” very much…great inspiring stories of othe Friends and their ministries.

 

[Kristin234]

Kristen and others…you are looking at Scriptures at their beginning in referencing the saints.

Many were already being persecuted and martyred, St. Stephen being the first martyr, with St. Paul attending. But what you are missing completely is the the lives of the saints.

Where is the witness of faith???

There were Christians in Rome and elsewhere who went about tearing down pagan Roman statues, and they thought they were saints. When they were executed, the Church --where is it?..did not call them saints, but called their actions ‘suicide’.

So early on, very early on…look at St. Paul’s admonitions to the Corinthians, to those committing sexual sins, to those seeking placement of honor at church assemblies in the houses of the rich who were the norm of Christian gatherings with the poor in the courtyards, to unbecoming behavior in receiving the Eucharist.

You do not know about the saints who were martyred, including early popes…I think of St. Barbara, St Cecilia…committed virgins…the diary/testimony of SS Perpetua and Felicity in Carthage around 200 AD was absolutely electrifying…also mentioning their Christian friend Saturn, the dreams they had prior to their martyrdom while in prison, was so real, reading it was akin to watching it on film. There are some sites online who have Perpetua’s complete diary, which is what I read.

There are saints whose lives were so holy, their bodies are incorruptible…the most famous is St. Bernadette of Lourdes, France. St. Dominic and other saints raised people from the dead. And likewise, the saints’ lives are highly documented so we can learn from them.

I think the devotion to the communion of saints keeps our focus on growing in Christ. There is so much here in our faith that our Protestant brothers and sisters are literally being kept away from.

I have a copy of Butler’s “Lives of the Saints” in my home. I read the lives of the saints to my children when they were young, and loved hearing about them.

There is so much good that has happened, that is highly documented of Catholic/Orthodox saints. God made them for a reason and it is not good to invalidate or ignore them. We have saints for a very good purpose.

See, I think we just won’t get each other because when it comes down to it our definition of saints are all Christians. I do look at the lives of some Christians and how their journey with Christ was. I do look at those who were martyrs. I do look at those who traveled the world to evangelize. But, for me it is just to learn about them. To me they are Christians just like everyone else. I see my good friend who has dedicated his life to God, is risking his life and preaching to people in Saudi Arabia just as much of a saint as those specific saints that Catholics have picked out. Or a woman at my church who was stoned to death in Pakistan after preaching about Christ and her husband who boldly stayed there to hold Bible studies and to evangelize more people even after his wife died.

I believe we could learn something from anyone who is a follower of Jesus Christ.

Like I said, I believe saints are all Christians. I can get the witness of faith from many Christians I know.

 

[ForeverGrace]

We don’t talk about the apostles or disciples? Sure we do. We talk about the Apostle Paul almost every week and Peter only slightly less. We read the scriptures and so we do talk about these important people.

We don’t use the word Saint. But we do talk about these very important people common to both of our faiths.

 

[catholictiger]

We don’t talk about the apostles or disciples? Sure we do. We talk about the Apostle Paul almost every week and Peter only slightly less. We read the scriptures and so we do talk about these important people.

We don’t use the word Saint. But we do talk about these very important people common to both of our faiths.

whats the reason for not calling them saints, and do you ever talk about people outside of the bible?

 

[KathleenGee]

Of course, we recognize those Christians being martyred for the faith who are not Catholic!

But the Catholic Church is not going about invalidating sanctity of non-Catholics. And to not have any documentation beyond the Bible…then…Christ’s Church cannot be compared to the lives of the ancient believers of the Old Testament…This is invalidating Christ and His institution of His Church.

The Church began at Pentecost…and we have documentation that continues beyond the original apostles and saints. So much…2,000 years worth!

The Church is now the new paradigm for salvation history…and we have the same successes and failures as did the believers in the Old Testament. Good to know the Quakers have their saints…I don’t know of any, but am sure would recognize heroic sanctity in them.

So it is sad that there is such a profound division in Christianity that denies the profound witness of faith that has continued and is meant to be a beacon for all believers. This division also reflects great disparity in how we define Christ and His greatness.

Again, Catholics believe Christ is big enough and God enough, sufficient for all, to decide to have His church run by mortals. If Christ were on earth visible running the Church, there would be no faith…and subsequently no hope, but that which is based on sight.

However, we are not called to follow or believe by sight, but by faith, and it is the grace of faith in Christ that saves us. Nothing is impossible with God. We cannot limit Him or redefine Him. Instead, we must believe in Him and ALL His works…most visible in the Church…

Christ instituted His Church. Baptism incorporates us into the Body of Christ…and our baptism gives us grace to grow in sanctity…and makes us brothers and sisters although there is such a gap of unity.

 

[KathleenGee]

For the Sola Scriptura Christians here, I would invite you to read about the lives of the saints and see their heroic virtue. Their witness of faith in the conditions they lived in are tremendous.

 

[ForeverGrace]

whats the reason for not calling them saints, and do you ever talk about people outside of the bible?

We are not directed by scripture to call them Saints. I don’t personally think it would do any harm, but it’s not our custom.

Do we talk about people outside of the Bible? Not sure what you are getting at here. Yes, we do talk about some of the great people of faith. Certainly those of a historical nature, and we hold certain church fathers such as Augustine, Ignatius, and Athanasius in very high esteem. In reformed circles we are partial to Jonathan Edwards, Martin Luther, Charles Spurgeon, Theodore Beza, John Calvin, A. W. Pink, B.B. Warfield, John Rainolds, the Puritan. Lot’s of very interesting people. It’s probably no different then the long list of people you admire.

Just as a quick side note, I really enjoy your Cardinal Arinze. He has the right balance of standing for the faith, and using common sense. He’s a brilliant man.

I did want to add that there are many protestants who do hold to the idea of Christian Saints. The Anglicans, Episcopals, some Lutherans. There are probably others, but I’m not well versed in this.

I think that covers it. Is this what you were looking for?

 

[catholictiger]

We are not directed by scripture to call them Saints. I don’t personally think it would do any harm, but it’s not our custom.

Do we talk about people outside of the Bible? Not sure what you are getting at here. Yes, we do talk about some of the great people of faith. Certainly those of a historical nature, and we hold certain church fathers such as Augustine, Ignatius, and Athanasius in very high esteem. In reformed circles we are partial to Jonathan Edwards, Martin Luther, Charles Spurgeon, Theodore Beza, John Calvin, A. W. Pink, B.B. Warfield, John Rainolds, the Puritan. Lot’s of very interesting people. It’s probably no different then the long list of people you admire.

Just as a quick side note, I really enjoy your Cardinal Arinze. He has the right balance of standing for the faith, and using common sense. He’s a brilliant man.

I did want to add that there are many protestants who do hold to the idea of Christian Saints. The Anglicans, Episcopals, some Lutherans. There are probably others, but I’m not well versed in this.

I think that covers it. Is this what you were looking for?

why does it have to be said specifically in the bible word for word in order for us to use it?

 

[KathleenGee]

Yes…and what is the purpose of the Bible…and of the Church?

…what makes one a canonized saint vs an ordinary one? We have countless many ordinary Catholic saints…as well as recognize the great sanctity of those outside the Church living in lands of great persecution.

Again where is the testament of faith of Jesus Christ comparable to those of great faith in the Old Testament? Why the focus on going back to the figures of the Old Testament but none to draw on in the history of Christianity?..

Or did true Christianity come about in the 1500’s? Where was Jesus before the 1500’s?

 

[MollyMac]

See, I think we just won’t get each other because when it comes down to it our definition of saints are all Christians. I do look at the lives of some Christians and how their journey with Christ was. I do look at those who were martyrs. I do look at those who traveled the world to evangelize. But, for me it is just to learn about them. To me they are Christians just like everyone else. I see my good friend who has dedicated his life to God, is risking his life and preaching to people in Saudi Arabia just as much of a saint as those specific saints that Catholics have picked out. Or a woman at my church who was stoned to death in Pakistan after preaching about Christ and her husband who boldly stayed there to hold Bible studies and to evangelize more people even after his wife died.

I believe we could learn something from anyone who is a follower of Jesus Christ.

Like I said, I believe saints are all Christians. I can get the witness of faith from many Christians I know.

I agree with you here. Also as a young woman growing up in a in a protestant church, we were taught church history in our sunday school classes. We looked at the lives of “saints” all the time but the emphasis went on to point to Christ and God’s work through the saint. We did not focus on the saints work as something that of themselves.

 

[Rigel2]

They helped shape Christianity, yet most protestants don’t care about them…Yes most devotion should be on Jesus, but you must talk about the wise words of those who came before you.

Let’s take a look at this question and its implications.

“Why do protestant denominations hardly talk about saints?”
The question is actually fallacious, as it makes a misleading and inaccurate assumption about protestants. There are ample posts here to prove studychristian wrong and the question as fallacious, yet the questioner does not appear to have responded to a single one. Correct me if I am wrong, but you seem content just to see brother Christian set against brother Christian. Indeed, the tenor of the question makes it certain.

“…most protestants don’t care about them…”
Since “most” Christians are nominal, including Roman Catholics, this is a non-statement.

Are you ready to contribute, studychristian?

I think that studychristian is playing a little game and it is time that person has answered the forum.

 

[Rigel2]

They helped shape Christianity, yet most protestants don’t care about them…Yes most devotion should be on Jesus, but you must talk about the wise words of those who came before you.

Interesting that studychristian seems not to have added to the thread since the first post.

 

[KathleenGee]

Hi Molly…that is the focus of Catholics…the Lord.

Do you have a Christian friend who has helped you become closer to Christ in a most special way…do you have a remembrance of her?

I have someone who seems to respond to none of my prayers…years ago…I believe it was St. Rita who appeared in a dream to me. She was in a nun’s habit. She held a crucifix in her arm as if holding a baby. She stood on the sidewalk outside, in front of the gate. It was March in the drizzly, gentle rain…that comes right before spring in Puget Sound. She was a sweet young girl waiting for me to invite her in. The dream was so realistic, and most of all, it was alive.

Years later, my mother was buried at St. Rita’s church. I sat up in the pew, and they moved St. Rita’s statue over by me. I looked up at it, and it resembled her.

I still pray to her for her prayers for two people in my family who refuse God. She is the patron saint of impossible cases. I got that dream about 25 years ago, and still my prayers aren’t answered, and this cross of unrepentant members are as a scandal to me by some, an embarrassment, but I keep praying and ask the Lord for strength to endure.

Some times we have problems that are too big to share with Christian friends and seek those friends in heaven to continue to pray for us and with us.

 

[JonNC]

We are not directed by scripture to call them Saints. I don’t personally think it would do any harm, but it’s not our custom.

Do we talk about people outside of the Bible? Not sure what you are getting at here. Yes, we do talk about some of the great people of faith. Certainly those of a historical nature, and we hold certain church fathers such as Augustine, Ignatius, and Athanasius in very high esteem. In reformed circles we are partial to Jonathan Edwards, Martin Luther, Charles Spurgeon, Theodore Beza, John Calvin, A. W. Pink, B.B. Warfield, John Rainolds, the Puritan. Lot’s of very interesting people. It’s probably no different then the long list of people you admire.

Just as a quick side note, I really enjoy your Cardinal Arinze. He has the right balance of standing for the faith, and using common sense. He’s a brilliant man.

I did want to add that there are many protestants who do hold to the idea of Christian Saints. The Anglicans, Episcopals, some Lutherans. There are probably others, but I’m not well versed in this.

I think that covers it. Is this what you were looking for?

All Lutherans

Jon

 

[Hiswillbedone]

Revelation 14:12-13 is clear…

(12)Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

(13) Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, Write: ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on’" “Yes,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them.”

The saints’ works follow them but they are at rest. Not communicating with or interceding for the living.

Here is my dilemma: As a protestant I have a fondness for the saints but cannot get past God’s own instructions not to communicate with the dead. Therefore, I question how the saints can really be saints if they broke God’s commandments? Therefore I question my own fondness for the saints. Where is this fondness coming from? Could it be I am being lead into deception?

 

[Publisher]

Revelation 14:12-13 is clear…

(12)Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

(13) Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, Write: ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on’" “Yes,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them.”

The saints’ works follow them but they are at rest. Not communicating with or interceding for the living.

Here is my dilemma: As a protestant I have a fondness for the saints but cannot get past God’s own instructions not to communicate with the dead. Therefore, I question how the saints can really be saints if they broke God’s commandments? Therefore I question my own fondness for the saints. Where is this fondness coming from? Could it be I am being lead into deception?

To honor those who have gone on before us isn’t an issue…at least not in my opinion. We are told we are surrounded by a “great cloud of witnesses”…we are “cheered on” from the “Grandstands”. If those who have gone on before, see us in our struggles, I see no reason not to believe they would automatically pray for us as we make our own Journey back to the Presence.

I personally just can’t get my mind around asking someone to pray for me that “XYZ” occurs when God has already decreeed how “XYZ” would work itself out.

I do not believe any saint, living or dead, would pray for something outside the will of God…or how calling upon them to interceed on our behalf because they supposedly hold a “closer” relationship to God than I…we “see thru a glass dark’y” in this world…I have no idea what lies on before…but there is One who Listens and doesn’t require the intercession on my behalf by others…their intercession is always welcome…but I do not believe the Will and Mind of God would be impacted in the least…to me it follows under “mystery”.

If asking those who have gone on before us to interceed for you and your life is better…your touch more gentle…your words kinder because you do so…wonderful…if however such an endeavor causes one to question the depth of another’s spiritual life because that person sees no benefit in such a practice…perhaps a deep issue is involved.

 

[AbideWithMe]

If asking those who have gone on before us to interceed for you and your life is better…your touch more gentle…your words kinder because you do so…wonderful…if however such an endeavor causes one to question the depth of another’s spiritual life because that person sees no benefit in such a practice…perhaps a deep issue is involved.

Well said.

 

[KathleenGee]

Agree, Publisher…heaven watches us with a thousand eyes…and they are alive in the Lord.

Those who die to self die once…and bodily death is the means to pass from this life into glory with the Lord.

When I pass on, I pray for the Lord to have mercy on me…and if He accepts me, I want to pray for all my loved ones left behind to persevere and to pray for conversions of the world, and for the glory of the Lord.

 

[catholictiger]

Revelation 14:12-13 is clear…

(12)Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

(13) Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, Write: ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on’" “Yes,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them.”

The saints’ works follow them but they are at rest. Not communicating with or interceding for the living.

Here is my dilemma: As a protestant I have a fondness for the saints but cannot get past God’s own instructions not to communicate with the dead. Therefore, I question how the saints can really be saints if they broke God’s commandments? Therefore I question my own fondness for the saints. Where is this fondness coming from? Could it be I am being lead into deception?

you’ve taken this out of context in revelation there are people who are bringing incense to the alter of the lord and those incense are the prayers of the people.

 

[MollyMac]

All Lutherans

Jon

I know this is a Catholic Forum, but what is a short summary of what Lutherans believe about saints? I had Lutheran friends and neighbors, but they weren’t very *devout *I guess would be the word to use.