Why do Protestants always refer the Catholic Church as Roman Catholic Church?

[Hegesippus]

Why do Protestants always refer the Catholic Church as Roman Catholic Church? When in fact that the Catholic Church itself consist of 23 Rites, 22 Eastern Rites and 1 Latin Rite?

Just a clarification, there is not 23 rites, but 23 sui iuris particular churches in communion with the bishop of Rome. There is only 6 or 7 rites. There are some churches that share the same liturgical rite but are different particular churches. For example the Melkites and the Ukrainians, are both of the Byzantine rite, but different particular churches.

 

[mark_a]

Why do Protestants always refer the Catholic Church as Roman Catholic Church? When in fact that the Catholic Church itself consist of 23 Rites, 22 Eastern Rites and 1 Latin Rite?

In some ways its fairly understandable.

For years I never knew there were Eastern Rite Catholics. I also didn’t really know the differences between Catholic and Orthodox.

And since, the pope is in Rome. . . . .

 

[thisismysn229]

I believe all above replies are correct, but I have witnessed yet another phenomenon. The RCC is the greatest “threat” to Protestantism. Today’s protestants are in schism from the RCC, not any Eastern Rite. Eastern catholics do not seem to be nearly as heavily engaged in apologetics and counter-apologetics with protestants as Roman Catholics are. I have often listened to a Southern Baptist preacher who is a favorite of some of my family members. About every other sermon there is one quick jab at some element of Catholic theology, which you have to be a catholic to catch–the congregation just thinks “there must be someone out there who believe whatever he’s preaching against.” Once in a while he mentions “so you see, the belief that our Catholic friends have is incorrect.” Once, when he was speaking about the whole spectrum of denominations, he spoke of the RCC being the far right, and the Baptists being the far left of what is “acceptable” Christianity. I believe he has a point there, but he went on to mention that there were the Mormons, Jehovas witnesses, and a few others who were way out off the charts on the left, and then “and then there are a few Eastern cults on the right.” While this gives away his poor understanding of the close relationship the RCC has with those “Eastern cults,” it also betrays that protestants are aware that their only challenging apologetic opponent is the RCC, and if they were to win the debate with the RCC, then the Eastern Rite could not stand.
That’s my two cents. God bless you all.

 

[Hesychios]

It is not offended but when I wish to describe the Church as being universal the proper term to be used is Catholic Church, when you call the Catholic Church, you include both Latin and Eastern Rites, not just one.

Most Latin Catholics I know are completely confused by this, and call themselves Roman Catholic routinely. Most Protestants cannot be expected to understand it any better.

 

[Hesychios]

And since, the pope is in Rome. . . . .

The Popes of the past routinely referred to their church as the Roman church, often with some more glorious sounding adjectives attached

These Popes may have just been referring to their own Metropolitan archdiocese, which would be correct. A citizen or resident of the city of Rome who was also obedient to the Pope would be a Roman Catholic, in they same way a citizen of Paris could be a Parisien Catholic.

But since many others around the world find themselves adhering to the authority of whichever bishop happens to control the diocese of Rome, and the liturgical practices, doctrine and prayers which are promulgated from that city, it is no surprise that these people will refer to themselves as Roman Catholics. It is also no surprise that their critics will refer to them in the same way.

BTW, in the eastern Mediterranean region, Orthodox refer to themselves as Roman Catholics (in their own language). This is because they are the descedents and successors of the Roman empire (which lasted a lot longer in the east). That is not going to change just because people here don’t like it, that’s just what they are over there.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Whatever the actual reasons behind the origin of “Roman Catholic”, it’s now become a common term to refer to the entirety of the Catholic Church.

This is probably not a good thing overall, but there isn’t much we can do in the grand scheme of things to change it.

Personally, I understand how someone could refer to all Catholics in communion with Rome as “Roman Catholics”, but that would imply that there some group of Catholics NOT in communion with Rome (outside of some loose affiliations of the excommunicate), an idea which, of course, we reject. I think it’s best to use the Roman Catholic term only when referring to Latin Rite Catholics or the Latin Church, as opposed to the entirety of the Churches in communion with Rome. (After all, as it’s been pointed out, we use the term Roman Catholic ourselves now!)

I think perhaps if the Eastern Churches had more visibility, this might not be a problem. Who knows?

You have raised an interesting point, in my Catholic diocese, we have been having problems with churches calling themselves “Catholic”, and mirror the sacraments, but are in no way under the Catholic Bishop or the Pope of Rome. So clarity is a must. Some of their members come to our Parish to complete their sacraments and find out the sacraments they recieved are not valid, causing much confusion within the Catholic community.

If anyone needs clarification of which is the valid Catholic church. One needs to ask the church leader if they follow the present “Pope” of the Roman Catholic Church.if the answer is yes, your in the right Church, if the answer is no, then run as fast as you can.

You know you mentioned geography; This is very important also. In the Roman Catholic church, the country’s or states are divided into diocese, or boundaries for clarity. This may be the solution to alot of “authoritative” bickering that goes on between the East, Orthodox, and Roman Catholics. Our Bishops are not bickering publicly about each others diocese or Peoples cultures on Worship or authority, for they recognize they are one in the same body of Jesus Christ in communion with each other, but may speak a different language. The Tower of babel has been reversed in the Roman Catholic church for although we speak different languages, we all worship God in one mind, one body under One baptism, in One Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[RobHom]

I believe all above replies are correct, but I have witnessed yet another phenomenon. The RCC is the greatest “threat” to Protestantism.

I found that statement interesting…because I not long ago happened to stumble over this article…very interesting reading and it takes a completely different viewpoint as to who is the greatest threat to “Protestantism”. Its not a short read…but very interesting!

firstthings.com/article.php3?id_article=6254

 

[nablaise]

I think as already explained, it is either due do some degree of ignorance or to what they are trying to say, or to denigrate it. I think ignorance play a great part because in whatever case, if protestant new really what the term catholic truly means, they wouldn’t be protestant anymore and those who consider themselves to be part of the ‘catholic’ church would realise that they are not.

For catholics, liturgical rites correspond to specific patriarchates.
A patriarchate was originally the primordial church left by a specific apostle or a group of them, from the beginning of the Church. So the first patriarchs are the apostles themselves. Some ancient or origianal church still exists today within their patriarchate. Examples: Rome, Jerusalem, etc.

So actually between the diocese and the papacy, there is a patriarchate. Every diocese or archidiocese belong to a particular patriarchate.

So all our diocese here in the West, In most of Europe and Africa, basically all diocese which are in what was in the Western Roman Empire are in the Roman Patriarchate.

So all Churches which were founded from European missions naturally belong to the Roman Patriarchate.

And The Patriarch of Rome is the Pope himself. So, many of us catholic are in the Roman Patriarchate and therefore are Roman Catholics.

However since we have many othe patriarchate in the Catholic Church, we have other patriarchs beside the patriarch of Rome. There is for example A patriarch of Jerusalem, and others. Catholics who belong to these patriarchate, don’t see themselves as Roman Catholics. This is because the Pope is not their patriarchs. The Pope is just their Pope but not their Patriarchs. Someone gave an example of Byzantine Catholics, etc…

The Pope do so many things for us more as our patriarch than as our Pope. And many catholics as well as protestant assume that he is doing it as Pope. What he does as Pope apply to the whole Catholic faithful, but what he does as patriarch apply only to the people of his patriarchate.

Wikipedia gives more information about patriarchates and patriarchs.

God bless

 

[nablaise]

Most of the time we are not conscieous of the full meaning of the word ‘catholic’ as the Church have always understood it. So it is taken lightly. Here is the full meaning.

THE CHURCH IS CATHOLIC

What does “catholic” mean?

830 The word “catholic” means “universal,” in the sense of “according to the totality” or “in keeping with the whole.” The Church is catholic in a double sense:

First, the Church is catholic because Christ is present in her. "Where there is Christ Jesus, there is the Catholic Church."307 In her subsists the fullness of Christ’s body united with its head; this implies that she receives from him "the fullness of the means of salvation"308 which he has willed: correct and complete confession of faith, full sacramental life, and ordained ministry in apostolic succession. The Church was, in this fundamental sense, catholic on the day of Pentecost309 and will always be so until the day of the Parousia.

831 Secondly, the Church is catholic because she has been sent out by Christ on a mission to the whole of the human race:310

All men are called to belong to the new People of God. This People, therefore, while remaining one and only one, is to be spread throughout the whole world and to all ages in order that the design of God’s will may be fulfilled: he made human nature one in the beginning and has decreed that all his children who were scattered should be finally gathered together as one. . . . The character of universality which adorns the People of God is a gift from the Lord himself whereby the Catholic Church ceaselessly and efficaciously seeks for the return of all humanity and all its goods, under Christ the Head in the unity of his Spirit.311

Each particular Church is “catholic”

832 "The Church of Christ is really present in all legitimately organized local groups of the faithful, which, in so far as they are united to their pastors, are also quite appropriately called Churches in the New Testament. . . . In them the faithful are gathered together through the preaching of the Gospel of Christ, and the mystery of the Lord’s Supper is celebrated. . . . In these communities, though they may often be small and poor, or existing in the diaspora, Christ is present, through whose power and influence the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church is constituted."312

833 The phrase “particular Church,” which is first of all the diocese (or eparchy), refers to a community of the Christian faithful in communion of faith and sacraments with their bishop ordained in apostolic succession.313 These particular Churches "are constituted after the model of the universal Church; it is in these and formed out of them that the one and unique Catholic Church exists."314

834 Particular Churches are fully catholic through their communion with one of them, the Church of Rome "which presides in charity."315 "For with this church, by reason of its pre-eminence, the whole Church, that is the faithful everywhere, must necessarily be in accord."316 Indeed, "from the incarnate Word’s descent to us, all Christian churches everywhere have held and hold the great Church that is here [at Rome] to be their only basis and foundation since, according to the Savior’s promise, the gates of hell have never prevailed against her."317

835 "Let us be very careful not to conceive of the universal Church as the simple sum, or . . . the more or less anomalous federation of essentially different particular churches. In the mind of the Lord the Church is universal by vocation and mission, but when she put down her roots in a variety of cultural, social, and human terrains, she takes on different external expressions and appearances in each part of the world."318 The rich variety of ecclesiastical disciplines, liturgical rites, and theological and spiritual heritages proper to the local churches "unified in a common effort, shows all the more resplendently the catholicity of the undivided Church."319

Who belongs to the Catholic Church?

836 "All men are called to this catholic unity of the People of God. . . . And to it, in different ways, belong or are ordered: the Catholic faithful, others who believe in Christ, and finally all mankind, called by God’s grace to salvation."320

837 "Fully incorporated into the society of the Church are those who, possessing the Spirit of Christ, accept all the means of salvation given to the Church together with her entire organization, and who - by the bonds constituted by the profession of faith, the sacraments, ecclesiastical government, and communion - are joined in the visible structure of the Church of Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. Even though incorporated into the Church, one who does not however persevere in charity is not saved. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but ‘in body’ not ‘in heart.’"321

838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323 With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord’s Eucharist."324

 

[historyb]

Why do Protestants always refer the Catholic Church as Roman Catholic Church? When in fact that the Catholic Church itself consist of 23 Rites, 22 Eastern Rites and 1 Latin Rite?

I do myself and I’m a Roman Catholic.

 

[nsper7]

Why do Protestants always refer the Catholic Church as Roman Catholic Church? When in fact that the Catholic Church itself consist of 23 Rites, 22 Eastern Rites and 1 Latin Rite?

Well, as an Anglican, I say ‘Roman Catholic Church’ (although I do know they have Easter Rites) in order to differentiate it from the ‘Catholic Church’ (the Universal Church of all Believers as it were, the ‘One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church’ of the Nicene Creed).

After all, ‘Catholic’ literally means ‘Universal’, so if you do not have some kind of descriptor (i.e. Roman), then one might assume you are not referring to the Church made up to 23 Rites, but that you are referring to the Universal Body of Believers (which, one should hope and believe, includes Roman Catholic).

Get the picture?

Thus, it is not meant as an insult, but as a proper method of description and delineation.

 

[robert_Ian_Will]

The expression Roman catholic is an invention of the Elizabethan protestant Regime…trying to justify its own State Church as being Catholic.

 

[nsper7]

The expression Roman catholic is an invention of the Elizabethan protestant Regime…trying to justify its own State Church as being Catholic.

Regardless of its origins, I believe such delineation is necessary. After all, Anglicans affirm the Nicene Creed and we believe in the ‘One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church’, or the Catholic (Universal) Church.

 

[robert_Ian_Will]

By that standard the Catholic Church abandon the Trinity because the Mormon Church uses the terms, Father, Son and Holy Ghost…no Roman Catholic is a denegration., whch has become accepted like Quaker or Mormon.

 

[Hesychios]

The expression Roman catholic is an invention of the Elizabethan protestant Regime…trying to justify its own State Church as being Catholic.

I see this claim a lot, but I am not convinced.

 

[AlexiaMusing]

Certainly as an Episcopalian whose Church has full claim to being holy catholic and apostolic, I too use the appellation Roman to differentiate the Church led by Pope Benedict from other catholic and apostolic churches. It is not derogatory at all, but simply descriptive of what church one is referring to.

 

[SIA]

Why do Protestants always refer the Catholic Church as Roman Catholic Church? When in fact that the Catholic Church itself consist of 23 Rites, 22 Eastern Rites and 1 Latin Rite?

Because, you are the Roman Catholic church. That is your proper name. Doesn’t your Catechism refer to all of the Sacrements being truly celebrated only in the church in Rome?

 

[abucs]

My thoughts are that the “Roman Catholic Church” is a name that was invented 300 odd years ago in England by protestants and has since been used in all England’s colonies or former colonies.

If someone calls me a Roman Catholic i don’t object, but i always refer to myself as Catholic.

I follow the Pope because he is (as far as i am concerned) the successor to Peter, not because of any one city.

If the Pope/Church decided tomorrow to move HQ to Hawaii i think it’s funny that some might then start calling us the ‘Hawaiin Catholic Church’.

In that very unlikely scenario, if a new bishop of Rome was appointed by the Holy Father, he would simply be a bishop like all others as far as i am concerned.

Che sera sera.

 

[chris_molter]

Because, you are the Roman Catholic church. That is your proper name.

No we’re not. And no, it isn’t. I try to take pains to correct and rebuke some of my more… enthusiastic… Catholic brothers on here when they lump all Anglicans together with TEC, I would hope you’d return the courtesy by at least allowing us to choose our own name.

If you’re referring to Latin Rite Catholics, I don’t think “Roman Catholic” is a problem. If you’re referring to all Churches in communion with Rome, then the “Catholic Church” would be more accurate, and less denigrating or dismissive to the Eastern Catholic Churches.

…and yes, we’ll stipulate that you referring to us as the “Catholic Church” is in no way a relinquishment on your part of Anglican Catholicity. After all, we refer to the Orthodox Churches as the Orthodox Churches even though we think we’re the only truly Orthodox Church. And the Orthodox refer to us as the Catholic Church even though they believe they are the real Catholic Church, not us.

Doesn’t your Catechism refer to all of the Sacrements being truly celebrated only in the church in Rome?

No, it doesn’t. The sacraments are not controlled by ‘Rome’. Any Bishop or Priest properly ordained can celebrate the Eucharist (which certainly includes the Eastern Orthodox who are very much NOT in communion with Rome, and *possibly *even some Anglican lines). Any human being with proper intent can Baptize validly. A man and woman properly disposed can be married validly outside the Church.

 

[josephdaniel29]

Why do Protestants always refer the Catholic Church as Roman Catholic Church? When in fact that the Catholic Church itself consist of 23 Rites, 22 Eastern Rites and 1 Latin Rite?

For the same reason Catholics refer to us as the Eastern Orthodox Church. It’s all a matter of perspective.

Yours in Christ
Joe