Why do Protestants celebrate Reformation Day?

[josephback]

Because truth is more important than unity. If something is true a person is obligated to become united to it even if that means separation from others who are teaching falsely.

This is true and an excellent reason to consider Catholicism. I was infant baptized Lutheran and grew up in the AoG/Baptist traditions. Growing up, the Reformation was always cast as the Glorious Revolution that “set the Gospel free,” as you say. From a vantage point outside the movement or its offshoots it was a very bloody, chaotic time in history that witnessed the breakup of medieval Christianity, a catastrophe that Western society is still reeling from.

Furthermore, Martin Luther being right would not only call into question God’s integrity and make him elitist(hiding the truth in a book almost no one could read), it would mean that Jesus lied to Peter when he said the gates of hell would not overcome the Church. If the professed kingdom of God on earth lost the truth about salvation(a point separate from the moral lives of the clergy or faithful), then we’re all on our own and God’s a jerk. The Reformation has consequences for theology, and they are not pretty. Why not consider that God was faithful?

 

[JoyToTheWhirled]

Some reformed Baptist friends have someone dress up as Luther who comes to explain why he did what he did. We used to have sausage and mash when we celebrated and get the kids to write their own ‘theses’ about the church. I kind of cringe inwardly now when I think about how anti Catholic we were, but there we go, all part of life’s rich tapestry.

 

[commenter]

It’s easy for Catholics and Protestants to talk about institutional abuses - within our own denomination, or within other denominations. It is much harder to talk about, and address, our own personal shortcomings as Christians - “what I have done, and what I have failed to do”.

None of the denominations will be present on Judgement Day. The only ones present will be individuals. My careful, accurate assessment of this religious cult, or that heretical mainline institution, won’t matter then. The individual cult member, or the person from that liberal-or-conservative-or-whatever group will be there. Me too. Our denominations won’t be visible, but our souls will be.

If “Reformation Day” could be re-understood as supporting a recommitment of me, personally to Christ, I could sure use that reformation, at least annually. We all could.

(Is it my imagination or not, but isn’t there 100 times as many threads/posts about institutional errors and shortcomings as there are about the kinds of sins you and I commit?)

 

[eazyduzit]

The Puritans??? Seriously?
I think the people they burned as ‘witches’ would argue about that ‘love of independence’.

Always a critic with a small viewpoint. Have you ever read the “Mayflower Compact” ? It is considered a great American document.
America is the greatest and freest nation on God’s earth.

 

[JustaServant]

Try not viewing it from your own corner. You won’t see too well. The reformation was a liberation that effected us all in positive ways. Without it we would not have had the Puritans with their love of independence and we would not now have the freest nation on earth today.
And i don’t think it was a coincidence that the man who did the most to gain civil liberties for African Americans was named MARTIN LUTHER King jr.

Hmmm…perhaps the Puritans aren’t the BEST example Easy.
I did however read a book on them many years ago (can’t remember the name) that did speak of the more positive aspects of their religious culture. They were trying to build a kind of ‘utopia’ in the New World that was doomed to failure.
We just can’t get past that ‘being sinful humans’ problem.

 

[JonNC]

=josephback;13404732]This is true and an excellent reason to consider Catholicism. I was infant baptized Lutheran and grew up in the AoG/Baptist traditions. Growing up, the Reformation was always cast as the Glorious Revolution that “set the Gospel free,” as you say. From a vantage point outside the movement or its offshoots it was a very bloody, chaotic time in history that witnessed the breakup of medieval Christianity, a catastrophe that Western society is still reeling from.

Indeed it was a bloody, chaotic, and sometimes fiery (if you catch my drift) time. Neither side was immune from the brutality brought on by corruption within the Church, and pride on the part of many involved

Furthermore, Martin Luther being right would not only call into question God’s integrity and make him elitist(hiding the truth in a book almost no one could read), it would mean that Jesus lied to Peter when he said the gates of hell would not overcome the Church. If the professed kingdom of God on earth lost the truth about salvation(a point separate from the moral lives of the clergy or faithful), then we’re all on our own and God’s a jerk. The Reformation has consequences for theology, and they are not pretty. Why not consider that God was faithful?

Of all the Catholic apologetic arguments, I find this the least believable. First it assumes that the gates of Hell overcame the Church, a proposition which is not possible, on a number of grounds, primary being that said overcoming would mean an overcoming of the entire Church. On this All Saints Day one can recognize that the gates of Hell cannot overcome the Church Universal, which includes the Church Triumphant. It also assumes that the Church Militant is only and exclusively found in communion with the Bishop of Rome, a patently false assumption.
Second, it assumes that the failure of the middle ages Church was God’s fault, when in fact it was the fault of humans, not the least of which, though not limited to, being popes and cardinals of that time. It is also clear that this wasn’t the first time the Church was unable to “hold it together”. That Great Schism wasn’t God’s fault either.

So, Jesus didn’t lie (as if that was possible), and God is not a jerk (as if the one who made salvation possible could even be), but people can really screw things up. Even when we do, however, His word and His sacraments, the tools of the Holy Spirit, see believers through the turmoil of schism and division brought about be men.

So, Joseph, don’t blame God for the failure of men to stay unity with each other. Instead, we must blame ourselves. Pope Leo X and Father Martin are dead nearly 500 years. Even they deserve little blame anymore, be we ourselves.

Jon

 

[JonNC]

It’s easy for Catholics and Protestants to talk about institutional abuses - within our own denomination, or within other denominations. It is much harder to talk about, and address, our own personal shortcomings as Christians - “what I have done, and what I have failed to do”.

None of the denominations will be present on Judgement Day. The only ones present will be individuals. My careful, accurate assessment of this religious cult, or that heretical mainline institution, won’t matter then. The individual cult member, or the person from that liberal-or-conservative-or-whatever group will be there. Me too. Our denominations won’t be visible, but our souls will be.

If “Reformation Day” could be re-understood as supporting a recommitment of me, personally to Christ, I could sure use that reformation, at least annually. We all could.

(Is it my imagination or not, but isn’t there 100 times as many threads/posts about institutional errors and shortcomings as there are about the kinds of sins you and I commit?)

:sad_yes:

Jon

 

[JonNC]

Even the term “protestant” has little meaning today, because the protest was not against the Catholic church per se, but government leaders at the 2nd Diet of Speyer, where religious freedom was being revoked. If anything, by that definition, the Catholic Church is the biggest protestant church in America today, fighting against the HHS Mandate (Health and Human Services), which requires religious groups to pay health care costs for abortions and the like. And thank God for the Catholic Church’s role in this modern day protest!!

Jon

 

[eazyduzit]

This is true and an excellent reason to consider Catholicism. I was infant baptized Lutheran and grew up in the AoG/Baptist traditions. Growing up, the Reformation was always cast as the Glorious Revolution that “set the Gospel free,” as you say. From a vantage point outside the movement or its offshoots it was a very bloody, chaotic time in history that witnessed the breakup of medieval Christianity, a catastrophe that Western society is still reeling from.

Furthermore, Martin Luther being right would not only call into question God’s integrity and make him elitist(hiding the truth in a book almost no one could read), it would mean that Jesus lied to Peter when he said the gates of hell would not overcome the Church. If the professed kingdom of God on earth lost the truth about salvation(a point separate from the moral lives of the clergy or faithful), then we’re all on our own and God’s a jerk. The Reformation has consequences for theology, and they are not pretty. Why not consider that God was faithful?

Some people focus on the negative, but even if you don’t agree with the Reformation, there are still positive results. The Reformation caused people to change their focus back to God’s word, where it should be, not on our own traditions. His word is the “Mirror” through which we can then see the truth about ourselves. This is the only way to true unity with true liberty.

 

[Padres1969]

Last year my sister went to a Protestant church since a friend of hers was celebrating her 100th birthday and she was having a party at church afterward. My sister said she had to sit through the sermon bashing the Catholic church and how horrible it was before the reformation.

She said our Catholic church doesn’t do that so why do they do it. She was very uncomfortable sitting through that but she did it for her friend.

I told her it was too bad she didn’t have some literature on the Catholic church to hand out afterward. LOL

I wonder how many Protestant churches bash the Catholic church on reformation Sunday?

Mine didn’t. There was a speaker who was talking about her journey to the Episcopal Church, she happened to be a former Catholic. But her talk was mainly about the community and faith of our parish rather than anything negative about Catholicsm. (Mind you she’s not unique as a large percentage of my parish are former Catholics so any framing regarding that was simply contextual).

 

[josephback]

So, Joseph, don’t blame God for the failure of men to stay unity with each other. Instead, we must blame ourselves. Pope Leo X and Father Martin are dead nearly 500 years. Even they deserve little blame anymore, be we ourselves.

Jon

Fair enough.

 

[Peter_J]

How can celebrating a date in history, that led to so much disunity, unite Christians?

Hi. I’m coming in late here, but I have a question that I think will be helpful: Do you celebrate the Council of Chalcedon? (And no that’s **not **a joke.)

 

[Thorolfr]

From a vantage point outside the movement or its offshoots it was a very bloody, chaotic time in history that witnessed the breakup of medieval Christianity, a catastrophe that Western society is still reeling from.

Medieval Christianity had already broken up long before Martin Luther. In 1154, the Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox churches split with and the papal legate, Cardinal Humbert, excommunicating Michael Cerularius, Patriarch of Constantinople while Patriarch Cerularius excommunicated Cardinal Humbert.

 

[josephback]

Medieval Christianity had already broken up long before Martin Luther. In 1154, the Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox churches split with and the papal legate, Cardinal Humbert, excommunicating Michael Cerularius, Patriarch of Constantinople while Patriarch Cerularius excommunicated Cardinal Humbert.

Then it was the breakup of medieval Christianity in the West. Still not a great time to look back on.

 

[Peter_J]

Medieval Christianity had already broken up long before Martin Luther. In 1154, the Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox churches split with and the papal legate, Cardinal Humbert, excommunicating Michael Cerularius, Patriarch of Constantinople while Patriarch Cerularius excommunicated Cardinal Humbert.

You mean 1054. But I would like to point out that most now agree that dating the schism to that date is pretty much arbitrary. If one date is significant it would be the Council of Florence in the mid-15th century, because that is when the Latins said “These teachings are required …”

 

[eazyduzit]

Hi. I’m coming in late here, but I have a question that I think will be helpful: Do you celebrate the Council of Chalcedon? (And no that’s **not **a joke.)

Really? Who ever did that? The English used to make a big deal of celebrating Guy Faukes Day. Nov. 5, but now nobody even remembers what it was about.

 

[Peter_J]

Originally Posted by Peter J
Hi. I’m coming in late here, but I have a question that I think will be helpful: Do you celebrate the Council of Chalcedon? (And no that’s not a joke.)

Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox. It’s our fourth ecumenical council.

The (Miaphisite) Oriental Orthodox certainly don’t celebrate it, any more than RCs celebrate the Reformation.

 

[Tomyris]

When I got home and looked at this thread, I thought about church today. I think two or three people independently said “Happy Reformation Day”, but there was nothing at all about it in the service or the sermon. I am not sure I even have ever been to a service where Reformation Day was promulgated or celebrated or made anything of in the service or sermon.

Not all Protestants celebrate Reformation Day.

My :twocents:

 

[QuestLove]

Reading this thread reminds me of why I tend to avoid the “Why do Protestants…” threads

 

[Tomyris]

Reading this thread reminds me of why I tend to avoid the “Why do Protestants…” threads

Or any Why Do Group “A” do “B”? threads. Sometimes it can be educational as we discover how little we really know about each other. Such threads can be a meet and greet.

Hmmm. Thread ideas:

Why do Hollywood Movie Directors Iron their Underwear with Anvils?
Why do corporate lawyers stick their chewing gum between their toes?
Why do people who hum are the same people who simply cannot carry a tune?
Why do people who yodel eat fast food in the roof?