Why do Protestants completely ignore John19:27

[eonporter]

I suppose it is possible for someone to interpret at face value as you stated though.

I am a Catholic and I never interpreted it in any other way, until somebody specifically pointed out that passage and said it could mean more. Until today, I look at it and still think of it as an act of love and care for Mary, more than everything else. Even if that’s the case, it still means a lot.

 

[slh3016]

“Ignore” was the wrong term on my part. They definitely don’t ignore scripture per say.

That being said, how they interpret that verse boggles my mind.

I guess, technically, I’m still a Protestant, BUT have been studying the Catholic faith for the last two years. Honestly, I had NEVER heard of one explanation of this Scripture other than the literal translation of it.

Sadly, most Catholics believe that that Protestants CHOOSE to ignore certain Scriptures that Catholics hold dear, the ECF’s, etc., but even more sadly, the vast majority of Protestants just are simply ignorant of the Catholic Church, its teachings, and they don’t know enough about Scripture, the sub-context, etc. because no one has ever bothered to show/teach them. That’s what happens when Sola Scriptura is the rule of faith

I’ve learned more about God, Jesus, the Church, and Scripture more in the last two years than I did in the previous 35, and I am looking forward to more deepening of my faith as I continue to study both the Scriptures, Church Teaching, and the ECF’s

 

[JonNC]

“Then He said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!” From that hour the disciple took her into his own household.”

In regard to Mary’s role in the life of a Christian, how do Protestants, who take scripture so literally, completely disregard this last gift from Christ before giving himself up to The Father?

This has always baffled me.

Hi Mike,
Which protestants are you thinking of?

On account of this personal union and communion of the natures, Mary, the most blessed Virgin, bore not a mere man, but, as the angel [Gabriel] testifies, such a man as is truly the Son of the most high God, who showed His divine majesty even in His mother’s womb, inasmuch as He was born of a virgin, with her virginity inviolate. Therefore she is truly the mother of God, and nevertheless remained a virgin.

bookofconcord.org/sd-person.php

Jon

 

[Tom_Baum]

“Then He said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!” From that hour the disciple took her into his own household.”

In regard to Mary’s role in the life of a Christian, how do Protestants, who take scripture so literally, completely disregard this last gift from Christ before giving himself up to The Father?

This has always baffled me.

John 19: 26 & 27: “When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple there whom he loved, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son.” Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother.” And from that hour the disciple took her into his home.”

Seems to me that “the disciple there whom he loved” stood for the entire human race and Jesus was telling us that not only are we loved but that we, ALL OF US, are Jesus’s brothers and sisters.

Also since the Incarnation came thru Mary’s YES, it is also thru Mary’s YES that the spiritual rebirth of ALL came about.

This was spoken about in Genesis.

 

[CatholicHockey7]

I guess, technically, I’m still a Protestant, BUT have been studying the Catholic faith for the last two years. Honestly, I had NEVER heard of one explanation of this Scripture other than the literal translation of it.

Sadly, most Catholics believe that that Protestants CHOOSE to ignore certain Scriptures that Catholics hold dear, the ECF’s, etc., but even more sadly, the vast majority of Protestants just are simply ignorant of the Catholic Church, its teachings, and they don’t know enough about Scripture, the sub-context, etc. because no one has ever bothered to show/teach them. That’s what happens when Sola Scriptura is the rule of faith

I’ve learned more about God, Jesus, the Church, and Scripture more in the last two years than I did in the previous 35, and I am looking forward to more deepening of my faith as I continue to study both the Scriptures, Church Teaching, and the ECF’s

We’re a little off-topic with this segment, but I agree with what you’re saying. I think as Catholics we do sometimes forget that most protestants are like most Catholics, they don’t really study the teaching, ponder it, pray about it and apply it to their lives. They just parrot back what someone else said about it. (Personally, guilty as charged in case you’re wondering).

You also touched on Sola Scriptura’s greatest flaw. You can’t go by Scripture alone because you have to understand the historical context. We used to study history through the lens of the cultures which existed at the time. But now we try to isolate moments and see them through our modern eyes. Scripture gets treated the same way, which means we’re applying 21st century thinking to documents written in the 1st century. Anyone should be able to see this is a bad idea.

The Miracle on Ice is one of the two most impactful moments in the history of hockey, but if you watch it without any knowledge of the bigger picture it’s just another hockey game.

We have to have proper historical and cultural context to truly understand things like Scripture. But to include that we have to look to sources outside the Bible. Suddenly we’re no longer talking about Scripture alone.

 

[asd72]

I guess, technically, I’m still a Protestant, BUT have been studying the Catholic faith for the last two years. Honestly, I had NEVER heard of one explanation of this Scripture other than the literal translation of it.

Sadly, most Catholics believe that that Protestants CHOOSE to ignore certain Scriptures that Catholics hold dear, the ECF’s, etc., but even more sadly, the vast majority of Protestants just are simply ignorant of the Catholic Church, its teachings, and they don’t know enough about Scripture, the sub-context, etc. because no one has ever bothered to show/teach them. That’s what happens when Sola Scriptura is the rule of faith

I’ve learned more about God, Jesus, the Church, and Scripture more in the last two years than I did in the previous 35, and I am looking forward to more deepening of my faith as I continue to study both the Scriptures, Church Teaching, and the ECF’s

Exactly! I was completely ignorant of Catholic interpretation of scripture as a Protestant. It never occurred to me that Jesus statement to Mary referred to anything but his mother’s care after his death.

Don’t assume Protestants all understand and reject Catholicism, or even know that the Catholic Church considers herself the one true Church. To me the Catholic Church was just another denomination.

 

[Goya]

Hi Mike,
Which protestants are you thinking of?

bookofconcord.org/sd-person.php

Jon

Ah yes…citing the same source that gives us this (and similar) gems/sentiments:

41] This being the case, all Christians ought to beware of becoming partakers of the godless doctrine, blasphemies, and unjust cruelty of the Pope. On this account they ought to desert and execrate the Pope with his adherents as the kingdom of Antichrist; just as Christ has commanded, Matt. 7:15: Beware of false prophets. And Paul commands that godless teachers should be avoided and execrated as cursed, Gal. 1:8; Titus 3:10. And he says, 2 Cor. 6:14: Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers; for what communion hath light with darkness?

NB: that was from your linked site:

bookofconcord.org/treatise.php

Also echoed in the Smalcad Articles…

…and In the LCMS:

OF THE ANTICHRIST

As to the Antichrist we teach that the prophecies of the Holy Scriptures concerning the Antichrist, 2 Thess. 2:3-12; 1 John 2:18, have been fulfilled in the Pope of Rome and his dominion. All the features of the Antichrist as drawn in these prophecies, including the most abominable and horrible ones, for example, that the Antichrist “as God sitteth in the temple of God,” 2 Thess. 2:4; that he anathematizes the very heart of the Gospel of Christ, that is, the doctrine of the forgiveness of sins by grace alone, for Christ’s sake alone, through faith alone, without any merit or worthiness in man (Rom. 3:20-28; Gal. 2:16); that he recognizes only those as members of the Christian Church who bow to his authority; and that, like a deluge, he had inundated the whole Church with his antichristian doctrines till God revealed him through the Reformation — these very features are the outstanding characteristics of the Papacy. (Cf. Smalcald Articles, Triglot, p. 515, Paragraphs 39-41; p. 401, Paragraph 45; M. pp. 336, 258.) Hence we subscribe to the statement of our Confessions that the Pope is “the very Antichrist.” (Smalcald Articles, Triglot, p. 475, Paragraph 10; M., p. 308.)

lcms.org/doctrine/doctrinalposition#antichrist

So, I suppose we should disregard the whole “Pope = antichrist” thingy–I mean…just because it’s still on the books, doesn’t necessarily make it operative, right? (and of course, so many folks–like Michele Bachman–aren’t[weren’t] even aware that their own Churches proclaim such…vitriol anyway, right?).

Kinda’ like, the Koran’s edict to kill infidels…it’s on the books, but hey…most Muslims don’t go around killing infidels…just the lunatic fringe, right?

Ah…but because reverence for Mary is on the books, well, then we ought to completely disregard our own personal experiences with Lutherans, vis a vis Mary, as that would be merely anecdotal.

Did I get that right…sir? Is that the angle you’re going for?

:ehh:

 

[multitude]

catholicgentleman.net/2015/01/devil-hates-blessed-virgin-much-love/

An article about the Blessed Mother about a month back. I think it is just as pertinent. Some excerpts from it:

The devil hates, I mean he loathes the fact that his ultimate defeat will come at the hands of a lowly handmaiden. In a way, his proud heart could handle being defeated by God himself because he’s almighty and omnipotent. But being crushed by a little Lady from Nazareth? The thought is absolutely humiliating. It drives him crazy. For if there is one thing the most proud creature in all of creation hates, it is being humiliated.

Satan finds his defeat by the Virgin Mary humiliating because she is a woman, and women are the weaker sex (1 Peter 3:7), and he despises weakness. He loves nothing more than to see women abused, degraded, and objectified. Not to mention that our Blessed Lady is a human, and Satan hates humans because we have bodies, and he is a pure spirit that thinks bodies are disgusting. But there’s another, more profound reason Satan hates being defeated by Mary: She is his replacement in heaven.

Satan is on a rampage, wreaking as much havoc as he possibly can—because he knows his time is running out. He is afraid and he is angry, for he knows that one day very soon, he will be crushed by the Woman who makes his heart quake, the woman who “looks forth like the dawn, fair as the moon, bright as the sun, terrible as an army with banners” (Song of Solomon 6:10).

Just like Jesus is the New Adam, the Blessed Mother is the New Eve, our co-redeemer. Even the oldest Protestant reformer, Martin Luther, was very devoted to our Mother. Perhaps that ought to make Protestants think a bit more about that.

 

[multitude]

Although to be fair to the Protestants, as some have pointed out, I don’t think Protestants mean to ignore John 19:27. But some people read and interpret whatever they want to read. Some people see whatever they want to see.

 

[multitude]

en.romana.org/print.php?n=37&s=3.4&ID=7

Among the texts from the Old Testament that the Church’s tradition has applied to the mother of Christ… It is a verse from the Canticle of Canticles. “Who is this that looks forth like the dawn, fair as the moon, bright as the sun, terrible as an army with banners?”

 

[JonNC]

Ah yes…citing the same source that gives us this (and similar) gems/sentiments:

NB: that was from your linked site:

bookofconcord.org/treatise.php

Also echoed in the Smalcad Articles…

…and In the LCMS:

lcms.org/doctrine/doctrinalposition#antichrist

So, I suppose we should disregard the whole “Pope = antichrist” thingy–I mean…just because it’s still on the books, doesn’t necessarily make it operative, right? (and of course, so many folks–like Michele Bachman–aren’t[weren’t] even aware that their own Churches proclaim such…vitriol anyway, right?).

Kinda’ like, the Koran’s edict to kill infidels…it’s on the books, but hey…most Muslims don’t go around killing infidels…just the lunatic fringe, right?

Ah…but because reverence for Mary is on the books, well, then we ought to completely disregard our own personal experiences with Lutherans, vis a vis Mary, as that would be merely anecdotal.

Did I get that right…sir? Is that the angle you’re going for?

:ehh:

Ahh yes, which is a direct response to the claim by the papacy in Unam sanctam that all Christians, regardless of baptism, regardless of grace, regardless of Christ, regardless of works, if they are not in communion with the Pope are condemned.

Please, Goya, try to stay on the topic. There are lots of condemnations on both sides from 500 years ago. But don’t be too offended when we agree on something.

Jon

 

[Della]

Some have mentioned that the average person in the pew, Catholic or Protestant, simply doesn’t think about it one way or the other. He simply accepts whatever his pastors tell him. Most lay people really don’t have the time to dig into such theological matters. And for most it doesn’t seem to touch their daily lives (it should, but that’s another topic), so they go about their lives leaving such things up to their spiritual leaders.

The reason many of us here think about it and write about is we have considered the topic for one reason or another. It is important to us because it has been a question we needed to address or we were taught about it.

In my case, I attended and graduated from an Assemblies of God Bible college. Such theological questions were important to us there. I found the average AoG member really didn’t think about Mary all that much. And whatever they were taught about her they accepted. The only ones who decidedly rejected Catholic understanding were the former Catholics.