Why do Protestants convert Catholics?

[guanophore]

I think we need to be careful not to get caught up in “experiences.” ANY “experience” becomes routine after repeated exposure, causing the person to seek more fulfilling “experiences.” That’s one reason why Catholics convert to Protestantism, and why Protestants do the “church hop” searching for better churches–because they are seeking a more transcendent “experience” of God.

I can see your point, but I also see that in the NT, and throughout the history of the Church, it is an experience with Christ that transforms people. Yet it is Christ we must pursue, and not the experience itself. I think that many Catholics are vulnerable to Evangelicals because they deeply crave this experience of God,and did not get the spiritual formation in the Church to have this need met.

Conversion is an experience, for some very immediate, for others a lifelong process, but there are many Catholics who have never experienced the powerful movement of the Spirit within themselves, so they yearn for it.

I think it’s important that we constantly remind ourselves and others that we walk by faith, not sight (or “experience”). God is just as real in a boring Mass as He is in an ethereal, beautiful, inspiring Mass.

Yes. The Spiritual walk cannot be based on emotion.

I’ve said it many times on CAF–we do not cease to be human beings when we are at Mass. Human beings respond to those things that are perceived through their senses–a beautiful hymn, a clearly-heard and understood Scripture reading, a riveting homily, inspiring works of art, a comfortable seat, the appropriate temperature, etc.

Yes, God has fashioned us this way.

But I think as a general rule, we should strive to make our Masses as appealing to frail human beings as we can. There is certainly no “sin” in offering up excellent music, a beautiful worship space, proper temperature in the room, etc. And these “human” things really do help many people to recognize that Jesus is Truly Present.

Our utmost for His highest!

 

[Leo2014]

There are certainly times in life where we should practice “mortification of the flesh” so that we can free ourselves from the “need” to have pretty music, exciting homilies, etc. There is great value in sitting through a “boring” Mass because it helps us to recognize that we walk by faith, and that our lack of an uplifting “experience” is not a measure of Christ’s True Presence.

I highly disagree, anyone pointing out any “mortification” is simply pointing out their self-righteousness. If your congregation has the ability to do better than they should strive to do better. I understand that if your church is located in a small town and you have limited resources, you work with what is provided to you. But you still reach to extend to the limits of those resources. However, if your church is located in a busy metropolitan area and you are still not bringing in members, you have a problem that needs to be address.

There is no value in sitting through anything “boring”. When was the last time you paid to sit through a movie that you knew was going to be boring? The value is in the experience; what did you gain and more importantly will you share it once you race out the door (hopefully not immediately after communion).

As we get older, we have to be cautious not to get trapped into resisting change, to romanticizing events of the past and closing ourselves off from the rest of the world. We begin to think we are smarter than the rest and worst - more spiritual.

None of these are components that edify Christ. “They will know we are Christians by our love…” When you love something aren’t you just a little excited to share your passion about it? We should always seek improvements, in ourselves, our relationships and yes, our Church community.

 

[guanophore]

I highly disagree, anyone pointing out any "mortification" is simply pointing out their self-righteousness.

What kind of new age drivel is this?!

Do you honestly believe that Christians have no obligation to embrace suffering?

Perhaps you have never been at a Mass where the music is like fingernails on a chalkboard? Or perhaps you are too young to know what that sounds like? Suffering poor homilies and poor music ministries is most definitely an opportunity to crucify the flesh.

If your congregation has the ability to do better than they should strive to do better.  I understand that if your church is located in a small town and you have limited resources, you work with what is provided to you.  But you still reach to extend to the limits of those resources.

Yes, of course, but some of us are no musically inclined, and could do no better so we just have to offer it up to God.

However, if your church is located in a busy metropolitan area and you are still not bringing in members, you have a problem that needs to be address.

And what makes you think mortification would not help with that?

There is no value in sitting through anything "boring".

You sound like someone who was raised in the entertainment age.

There is great value in participating in Mass, even if one must suffer through a boring homily. There is great value in participating in the Mass, even if there is no music at all, or the music would be better if it were absent.

When was the last time you paid to sit through a movie that you knew was going to be boring?

Ahh…so I was right about the entertainment mentality?

No movie has the potential to save my soul.

The value is in the experience; what did you gain and more importantly will you share it once you race out the door (hopefully not immediately after communion).

I admit I have done this to escape the closing hymn, but I do agree with you, the value is in the experience, which is the encounter with the risen Christ.

As we get older, we have to be cautious not to get trapped into resisting change, to romanticizing events of the past and closing ourselves off from the rest of the world. We begin to think we are smarter than the rest and worst - more spiritual.

Now who sounds self righteous?

None of these are components that edify Christ. “They will know we are Christians by our love…” When you love something aren’t you just a little excited to share your passion about it? We should always seek improvements, in ourselves, our relationships and yes, our Church community.

I agree.

But we can seek through mortification also.

 

[Cat]

I highly disagree, anyone pointing out any “mortification” is simply pointing out their self-righteousness.

I’m not sure I understand what you are saying.

Maybe I was unclear. Allow me to clarify.

I wasn’t talking about whipping ourselves or wearing hair shirts or doing other acts of flagellation to demonstrate how holy we are. I was talking about practicing the discipline of “detachment” by trying hard not to be upset when the music isn’t our favorite, or the priest is monotone, or the nave is freezing or sweltering, or we can barely hear because of the crackling in the sound system.

r congregation has the ability to do better than they should strive to do better. I understand that if your church is located in a small town and you have limited resources, you work with what is provided to you. But you still reach to extend to the limits of those resources. However, if your church is located in a busy metropolitan area and you are still not bringing in members, you have a problem that needs to be address.

I definitely agree with this, and I thought I had express this in my post. I’m glad you re-stated it.

There is no value in sitting through anything “boring”. When was the last time you paid to sit through a movie that you knew was going to be boring? The value is in the experience; what did you gain and more importantly will you share it once you race out the door (hopefully not immediately after communion).

I don’t agree with this. There are many things we must sit through that are very boring but very valuable for our overall life; e.g., watching over a sick child or adult, or sitting through the presentation of how to make a will.

But I do agree that if our parish is “boring”, there is much good in attempting to make some changes that will perk things up. Something as simple as displaying a beautiful icon or recruiting some new cantors from the teenagers in the parish might be a great help.

As we get older, we have to be cautious not to get trapped into resisting change, to romanticizing events of the past and closing ourselves off from the rest of the world.

I definitely agree with this.

We begin to think we are smarter than the rest and worst - more spiritual.

None of these are components that edify Christ. “They will know we are Christians by our love…” When you love something aren’t you just a little excited to share your passion about it? We should always seek improvements, in ourselves, our relationships and yes, our Church community.

And I agree with this, too. Yes, we should constantly strive for improvements!

 

[Leo2014]

What kind of new age drivel is this?!

Do you honestly believe that Christians have no obligation to embrace suffering?

I guess you would have to define “New Age” for me? I am talking about business principals and applying reasons that people fail in business. Remember Sears (the department store), at one time they were a fine store but have since lost their way. What you are saying is like stating; Sears, should bring back the catalog! You would only receive chuckles for your audience.

This happens to people as well. They live by the paradigms in their life and can no longer find their way. We should not ask if they are spiritual, let’s save that question for someone that could provide an honest prospective. Many of these same people are also responsible for running people out of their lives. You and I have meet people who have not spoken with a love one for years, but they talk to God all the time. Yes, I would have to define that as a form of suffering for each party involved.

Please do not equate sitting in one place as suffering. There are so many people that truly suffer in the name of the Lord. It is an insult to those that we compare being sedentary as a form of suffering.

I pray that this is not you. The circle of life is that we eventually have to step aside for a younger generation. Hopefully, we have prepared them for the responsibility to lead and tend the flock. That is also a form of suffering. It’s difficult for any of us to step aside.

Going back to my example of business, there is a time when there will be a change in management. It is enviable. But hopefully we have instilled our beliefs and principals and provided them a legacy that will allow them to stride into the future.

I’m I being judgmental…without a doubt.

 

[JRRTFAN]

It might be easier, but I don’t think your being truthful to God, your being truthful to yourself. That’s a big difference.

The people who are converting don’t know what “truthful to God” means they haven’t been taught it, shoot, they haven’t been taught anything - and neither were their parents! That’s the whole problem. When the homilist preaches (as different ones have in recent years in my parish) that the manna in the desert was flakes of locust excrement or that the miracle of the loaves and fishes was a sharing session between the hearers of the sermon and there was no real miracle then they are being taught heresy and they love it.

 

[Leo2014]

I’m not sure I understand what you are saying.

Sorry Cat,

It’s a professional hazard. It’s something that I pray about and the first thing I mention in confession…the need for patience.

Anyway, I have known a lot of people that left the Church. A common reason I hear for their departure is the result of a negative experience. I think later on there is a need to justify the decision so one starts to tears apart the practices and beliefs. However, I have to agree with many of them in regards to the negative experience they encounter - it never should have happen. But in the same manner, it should not be the foundation for their criticism.

I hope that none of us intentionally seek bad experiences in regards to anything we do. Now, I know people that will stay in a bad situation through some sort of apathy or worst - ignorance. But the problem with this scenario is that it eventually consume them and they develop a disregard for others. Than we develop lines like; “mortification of the flesh”.

I don’t agree with this. There are many things we must sit through that are very boring but very valuable for our overall life; e.g., watching over a sick child or adult, or sitting through the presentation of how to make a will.

I guess it’s how you define boredom:

Sitting through someone that is a poor speaker completely qualifies as an ingredient to boredom. I do know what you are saying; many college lectures require extreme efforts to maintain attention but prove to be of value. But Mass is not directed to a room full of theologians.

Being with a love one in their time of need should not be categorized as boredom. Honestly, I never notice the time. Unfortunately, I am filled with concern and worry that occupies my time. The value in these experiences are the greater appreciation and stronger relationships we develop with love ones.

Boredom for me see to be relative. I use to hate long plane rides, road trips, etc. Nowadays, I seem to value those times for their serenity and the opportunity to view beautiful landscapes…

 

[Adamski]

I thought the Protestants get a lot of their members converting people from the Catholic church. Why is that? Why not convert more people from other religions? Or from a different Protestant church?

I’m not well informed in this matter so you could explain to me what is the truth.

I left the catholic church when I was 18 because I had a very incomplete view of my faith, looking back probably because we rarely went to church and any theology answers I got were from my father who had a drug and alcohol problem. between 18-30 I really didn’t want to think about anything complex like faith. at 30 I started attending a non denominational church it only lasted 3 years because if any Christian is truly honest to themselves their is way to many gaps in reason in Protestantism.