Why do Protestants convert Catholics?

[guanophore]

Good point. The only ‘Catholics’ I would wish to convert are the ones who have no relationship with God and are only Catholic by name.

In which case, being evangelized by Protestants will bring them much closer to the faith in which they were baptized.

 

[Cat]

I apologize.

My position is that the essential reason Protestants pick off Catholics is that fathers and mothers aren’t doing their job at home, and the Church isn’t picking up the slack there.

I disagree. There are many Catholic (and Protestant) parents who were faithful to raise their children in the fear and admonition of the Lord and who train them in the way that they should go, but the children depart from their childhood faith and church when they come of age.

I’ve seen it happen over and over, and so have you.

I’ve also seen parents who truly do slack off and fail to even bring their children to church, and yet the children remain true to the faith and to their Church.

This isn’t something we can put off on the parents.

 

[Valdemar]

I disagree. There are many Catholic (and Protestant) parents who were faithful to raise their children in the fear and admonition of the Lord and who train them in the way that they should go, but the children depart from their childhood faith and church when they come of age.

I’ve seen it happen over and over, and so have you.

I’ve also seen parents who truly do slack off and fail to even bring their children to church, and yet the children remain true to the faith and to their Church.

This isn’t something we can put off on the parents.

I am not arguing in favor of the virtue of those who reject the Lord but I totally disagree with you that parenting in our culture exhibits a strong or relevant teaching component toward children. Totally disagree. I have seen strong family relationships that incorporate catecheses, but overall failure is the best term I can use to describe what I see and have seen for 40 years in Protestant and now Catholic families.

And it is not just found in Church, in that I believe this is a systemic feature of Western culture. Kids raising themselves in front of the TV or now the computer has been an integral component of American life for decades. This has been commented on for so many years it really isn’t up for grabs. Christian homes may on average include a somewhat higher level of parental involvement but the overall effect is simply nowhere what it could be.

Our current African Priest comments on it from time to time. Every home here has multiple Bibles but the who reads them? Where in his area in Kenya the bible is a precious thing and rarely does a home own more than one, but it is used and the little kids get taught from it. Just an anecdote but certainly the lack of bible knowledge among Catholics makes ithem an easy mark for Protestants who SAY they have the Bible. Catholics wince and think, “Well if this fellow can quote a couple verses and explain a thing or two from Paul’s writings, he must know more than me…”

Too bad because I came to the RCC BECAUSE of the bible and my lifelong study of it, not ins spite of it.

If we pass on to our children a knowledge of the Scriptures and the Catholic faith, no well-intentioned Protestant will take a one from the Church of Christ.

 

[JRRTFAN]

I’ve read not too ,long ago about the trend in Eastern Europe and Russia in the liturgical churches where young people are coming to worship BECAUSE OF the gravity, solemnity, mystery and spirituality of the Mass IN ALL ITS LITURGICAL GLORY.

DITTO in the TLM.

Such beauty leading to inquiry and conversion can happen in novus oordo parishes as well, and does, but generally, well, you folks be the judges

As for the leading to Christ our Savior; Fathers take the lead. Again, it is the calling that accompanies the creative act. Don’t expect some Priest to do your job for you. Read the Bible. Read the catechsim. IT ISN’T THAT HARD. Kneel down to the level of your little ones and TEACH them.

And then live it as best you can.

My “little ones” are now 35 and 32, the oldest being an elder at a Mega-church. You won’t hear a peep from me against solemnity, gravity and mystery. You might get a few objections from my parish “music minister” as he beats out “Sing a new Church” on the piano as the opening “chant” - the cantor has the temerity to call that goofiness “chant”.

 

[Leo2014]

And it is not just found in Church, in that I believe this is a systemic feature of Western culture. Kids raising themselves in front of the TV or now the computer has been an integral component of American life for decades. This has been commented on for so many years it really isn’t up for grabs. Christian homes may on average include a somewhat higher level of parental involvement but the overall effect is simply nowhere what it could be.

Hallelujah!

I don’t know the statistic on it, but many parents are oblivious on the subject. They have no idea what their kids are watching or the content they are reviewing on the Net and smart phones! Ask to read some of your kids, tweets, text’g or Instagram’s. In regards to the computers, most kids surpass their parents in regards to being tech savvy. Therefore, leaving parents at a great disadvantage.

Do many parents watch movies with their kids after they reach the teenage years? It makes me wonder if they sit through the profanity, violence and the graphic sex scenes together? Than at the end of the night state; Com’on kids, we got to get up early for church tomorrow. Does not have a ring of piety to it?

 

[Cat]

I am not arguing in favor of the virtue of those who reject the Lord but I totally disagree with you that parenting in our culture exhibits a strong or relevant teaching component toward children. Totally disagree. I have seen strong family relationships that incorporate catecheses, but overall failure is the best term I can use to describe what I see and have seen for 40 years in Protestant and now Catholic families.

And it is not just found in Church, in that I believe this is a systemic feature of Western culture. Kids raising themselves in front of the TV or now the computer has been an integral component of American life for decades. This has been commented on for so many years it really isn’t up for grabs. Christian homes may on average include a somewhat higher level of parental involvement but the overall effect is simply nowhere what it could be.

Our current African Priest comments on it from time to time. Every home here has multiple Bibles but the who reads them? Where in his area in Kenya the bible is a precious thing and rarely does a home own more than one, but it is used and the little kids get taught from it. Just an anecdote but certainly the lack of bible knowledge among Catholics makes ithem an easy mark for Protestants who SAY they have the Bible. Catholics wince and think, “Well if this fellow can quote a couple verses and explain a thing or two from Paul’s writings, he must know more than me…”

Too bad because I came to the RCC BECAUSE of the bible and my lifelong study of it, not ins spite of it.

If we pass on to our children a knowledge of the Scriptures and the Catholic faith, no well-intentioned Protestant will take a one from the Church of Christ.

I certainly agree with you that many parents have no clue about raising children.

But I still must protest the accusation that Catholic parents are responsible for the conversion of Catholics to Protestantism (or that Protestant parents are responsible for the conversion of their children to faithlessness).

In spite of the general trend toward parenting malaise, many parents HAVE done their duty and trained their children well, and yet their children departed from their faith and church when they grew up.

This is heartbreaking for parents who have truly done everything right. Hearing others say that somehow it was their fault compounds their heartbreak and doesn’t help bring the child back to faith or the Church.

The fact is that we all have free will, and some people choose to go down a different path regardless of all their training. Even adults who are well-grounded in Christianity sometimes choose to walk away from it.

This is not only true of faith, but other areas of life as well. EVERYONE in the United States knows about the dangers of smoking, but 15% of Americans choose to smoke anyway. EVERYONE knows that they should eat a healthier diet and be more active, but many of us continue to eat junk and be inactive. EVERYONE knows that we should have a will, but many of us procrastinate making a will. These are just a few examples of situations where we are well-trained and fully-educated, but choose to live contrary to the facts.

Education doesn’t guarantee compliance.

At least we have the promise in Proverbs that a child who is trained up in the way he should go will not depart from it when he is old. The promise for all the heartbroken parents is that their children WILL return to the way of faith, perhaps not during the parents’ lifetimes, but when their child is old.

 

[Valdemar]

I certainly agree with you that many parents have no clue about raising children.

But I still must protest the accusation that Catholic parents are responsible for the conversion of Catholics to Protestantism (or that Protestant parents are responsible for the conversion of their children to faithlessness).

In spite of the general trend toward parenting malaise, many parents HAVE done their duty and trained their children well, and yet their children departed from their faith and church when they grew up.

This is heartbreaking for parents who have truly done everything right. Hearing others say that somehow it was their fault compounds their heartbreak and doesn’t help bring the child back to faith or the Church.

The fact is that we all have free will, and some people choose to go down a different path regardless of all their training. Even adults who are well-grounded in Christianity sometimes choose to walk away from it.

This is not only true of faith, but other areas of life as well. EVERYONE in the United States knows about the dangers of smoking, but 15% of Americans choose to smoke anyway. EVERYONE knows that they should eat a healthier diet and be more active, but many of us continue to eat junk and be inactive. EVERYONE knows that we should have a will, but many of us procrastinate making a will. These are just a few examples of situations where we are well-trained and fully-educated, but choose to live contrary to the facts.

Education doesn’t guarantee compliance.

At least we have the promise in Proverbs that a child who is trained up in the way he should go will not depart from it when he is old. The promise for all the heartbroken parents is that their children WILL return to the way of faith, perhaps not during the parents’ lifetimes, but when their child is old.

I think if the picture you painted was accurate about Catholic parenting, we would see a very different Church. I think my picture reflects reality more closely.

And parenting isn’t merely “education”.

But I do agree with you 100% about the fact that whatever the parenting, many have chosen to fall away.

 

[guanophore]

I certainly agree with you that many parents have no clue about raising children.

But I still must protest the accusation that Catholic parents are responsible for the conversion of Catholics to Protestantism (or that Protestant parents are responsible for the conversion of their children to faithlessness).

“Responsible” might be too strong a word, but certainly it is a major factor. For two generations now we have minimized the impact of parenting on moral choices.

In spite of the general trend toward parenting malaise, many parents HAVE done their duty and trained their children well, and yet their children departed from their faith and church when they grew up.

Perhaps, but some of us come back when we get “old”.

This is heartbreaking for parents who have truly done everything right. Hearing others say that somehow it was their fault compounds their heartbreak and doesn’t help bring the child back to faith or the Church.

The fact is that we all have free will, and some people choose to go down a different path regardless of all their training. Even adults who are well-grounded in Christianity sometimes choose to walk away from it.

You make a good point. We do not want to exacerbate heartbreak or encourage despair. Each person has their own choice, and in the end, we must respect their right to make it, even when we disagree.

This is not only true of faith, but other areas of life as well. EVERYONE in the United States knows about the dangers of smoking, but 15% of Americans choose to smoke anyway. EVERYONE knows that they should eat a healthier diet and be more active, but many of us continue to eat junk and be inactive. EVERYONE knows that we should have a will, but many of us procrastinate making a will. These are just a few examples of situations where we are well-trained and fully-educated, but choose to live contrary to the facts.

Education doesn’t guarantee compliance.

This is well said Cat. Spiritual Formation is a complex process, only part of which is education.

Knowing what is best is not the same as choosing what is best.

At least we have the promise in Proverbs that a child who is trained up in the way he should go will not depart from it when he is old. The promise for all the heartbroken parents is that their children WILL return to the way of faith, perhaps not during the parents’ lifetimes, but when their child is old.

 

[Leo2014]

But I do agree with you 100% about the fact that whatever the parenting, many have chosen to fall away.

It is not solely the parents fault, but they play a big role. An example; Dad’s that do not attend church with their families. This problem crosses over every denomination. I have seen this through the years. They are not bad people, they simply do not see the value in attending each week. But, what message does this send to the kids? I have seen this problem cross over into a second generation. When the kids get old enough to make decisions for themselves, they decide that it is not the priority on Sundays.

From the surface, it appears that the kids have just fallen away. However, our passions are transcending to the next generation. If you love football and your kids grow-up seeing your excitement, there is a great probability that they are going to grow-up loving football. If you love to eat, there is a great possibility that your kids are overweight.

Yes, we have free will but we are greatly influence by the people in our lives. We touch on a lot of the problems that cause people to fall away already, but has anyone mentioned apathy from those that should be doing the teaching? Talk to Doctors, Counselors and Teachers, they will tell you how frustrating it is to have parents that don’t take responsibility for their kids. Like the missing Dad scenario, the problem does not happen overnight but over an extended period of time.

We lead by example. Therefore, don’t be so quick to avoid the responsibility…

 

[Valdemar]

catholicexchange.com/young-people-going?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+catholicex+%28Catholic+Exchange%29

 

[Cat]

There is an excellent article in the current Christianity Today: “Sorry Pope Francis, Protestants are Converting Catholics Across Latin America.”

I apologize that I am unable to link you to it, but if you google Christianity Today, and click on “Our Latest,” you should be able to scroll down and find it. In case too much time has passed and a newer issue is up online, the article is dated November 13, 2014, and is written by Morgan Lee.

 

[Valdemar]

There is an excellent article in the current Christianity Today: “Sorry Pope Francis, Protestants are Converting Catholics Across Latin America.”

I apologize that I am unable to link you to it, but if you google Christianity Today, and click on “Our Latest,” you should be able to scroll down and find it. In case too much time has passed and a newer issue is up online, the article is dated November 13, 2014, and is written by Morgan Lee.

I believe overall that Protestants are drawing more Catholics to Protestantism than the other way around.

For all the reasons noted in this discussion.

Such a reality has no bearing on the truth of the message of the Church, but it does have a lot to say about the marketing power of schismatic doctrine. It IS very appealing, easily grasped, concise, easy to follow and…wrong.

 

[Valdemar]

I should add that articles demonstrating the success of “Protestantism” in drawing away Catholics are somewhat misleading, whether intentionally or not.

There is no such things as “Protestantism”.

It is true that certain generalizations can be made about features of non-Catholic {maybe that is a better term when generalizations are made} schismatic groups are discussed, but doctrinal divisions abound between non-Catholic groups and thus while it appears “Catholics” are losing the field, in reality, there is simply no single group of non-Catholics that is truly winning it. Especially in Africa and Latin America where many diverse “evangelical” groups exist. And it wouldn’t matter if only one WAS “winning” Catholics away from the Church.

The term “evangelical” itself has evolved over time, meaning different things over the years and leaving it more or less meaningless anymore. Again, the power of language can be a deceptive power.

For myself, I see the “success” {can schism and more schism truly be "successful?} of “evangelicalism” is often caused not so much by its CHRISTIAN message but rather by power of the Western/US cultural steamroller that brings it to the world, complete with anthropocentric emphasis, detachment from historical continuity and truth and lack of concern with doctrinal detail and purity.

It is a very appealing message to preach “All you need is JESUS!” tho it is heresy to do so. For “JESUS alone” leaves out the Trinity, and often is merely a euphemism for “what I want in religion is what I will take thank you very much”.

Appealing, for sure. Successful, absolutely. “Right” according to the Scriptures and the salvation history of God?

Not so much.

 

[Leo2014]

…detachment from historical continuity and truth and lack of concern with doctrinal detail and purity.

There is a paradigm in place here…we actually already given up more than we are willing to admit. When I was a kid, there was no involvement from the ladies during Mass. Now they hand-out the Eucharist. I am certain if the Church had taken more of a hardline position on this issue, there would be less involvement from the women in the congregation. I already mentioned that women have better attendance than the men, but they also contribute more to the survival; bake sales, fund raisers, teaching, etc…

Frankly, the choice of music really does not matter. It’s more important to determine how do we get the congregation more involved and more people attending. I am certain it’s the same in your church, it is difficult to find a seat at Christmas and Easter. But, the remainder of the year…it is pretty empty. It’s great that you go regularly, how about inviting a love one, the kids, or a friend.

I saw a poster this morning that stated;

Success, Isn’t just about what you accomplish in your life. It’s about what you inspire others to do.

I think God is sending me a message; We were meant to go out a spread the good news!

 

[chero23]

Sheep stealing, particularly from communions that hold to both word and sacrament, is not typically the approach of Lutheranism.
Those churches that target other Christian communions often do, in fact, target other non-Catholic churches, as well as Catholics.

Do you think that the same question could be asked in reverse? Why do Catholics target protestants for conversion?

Jon

I do believe Catholics are evangelizing all over the world. I do believe we are one of few faiths that are doing that, especially in the Christian Communities, as we have missionaries all over the world.

Now when it comes to other Christian communities and Catholics trying to convert them, I think most of all is the Church trying to make those who were Catholic, feel welcomed back.

 

[chero23]

The question should be re-phrased to “Why do Catholics convert to Protestantism?”

It’s probably not a matter of the power of Protestantism as it is the weaknesses of Catholicism.

This accentuates the importance of the New Evangelization.

We, as members of the Catholic Church need to address both the questions and the needs of our fellow Catholics.

Most of all is that we don’t teach our people well, and many times when these individuals get caught in a discussion they are dumbfounded and feel helpless, so they feel is best to where they believe the truth is

 

[chero23]

Excellent summation. I was just about your same age when I converted. My wife also did and my kids, praise God, are heading in that direction with my son to be confirmed in December.

I will add one more thing to your excellent summation which you actually touched on.

Because many Catholics know little about their faith and are easy marks for Protestants who act like they DO.

And…

BECAUSE IT IS EASIER TO BE A PROTESTANT THAN A CATHOLIC.

The relationship of man to God for Protestants revolves around no special authority but the person him/herself. Their beliefs have no final word to order them. They live by their feelings and feet. “If I don’t feel good about this ‘church’ I’ll just beat feet to one ‘I am comfortable with’”.

Thus watch doctrines. They ebb and flow with the times.

That is easy-living Christianity.

It might be easier, but I don’t think your being truthful to God, your being truthful to yourself. That’s a big difference.

 

[chero23]

Most protestants dont believe the roman church teaches the true gospel, so they need to be evangelized.

You said the right word, they “think” but when that person actually studies the gospel the right way, I would even say the Early Church Fathers, it is going to lead you to one Church.

The reason I say that is because we have Churches who accept gay marriages, abortion, contraception, divorce, that baptism is just a symbol just to mention some things, but others believe other things.

Remember God does not cause confusion so all these Churches that teach all these things are not right.

And remember is what the Church teaches not what its members want it to teach.

 

[mackbrislawn]

Worse, the pope is the anti-Christ, and the Catholic Church is the whore of Babylon.

If the Catholic Church is the whore of Babylon, then Protestantism is the daughter of the whore.

Which is even worse.

 

[Randy_Carson]

If the Catholic Church is the whore of Babylon, then Protestantism is the daughter of the whore.

Which is even worse.

A thought which delights the Orthodox.