Why do Protestants DO THIS?

[ellzeena]

Ok I KNOW, I’m reading a book about Jesus written by a non-Catholic, so I’m pretty much looking for trouble. BUT…in this book I’ve read (so far, won’t read any further) some incredibly enlightening things about the culture into which Jesus was born. And those things have really helped me to understand how absolutely clear it must have been to those around Him as to exactly Who and What He is. Anyway, I get to page 69:
“When we accept Christ to be born into our lives, we’re all virgin Marys.”

I’m sorry WHAT??? WHY do Protestants continuously and (seems to me) blasphemously degrade our Mother in this way? This was a kid, a young 14 year old (most likely), approached by an angel (for crying out loud!) while WIDE AWAKE, who volunteered to do what was almost unbelievable to even consider: bear the Son of God, KNOWING the infant in her womb was not a “normal” child, KNOWING that this would change her life in ways that were hugely intimidating (must have been!) We’re “all virgin Marys’”???

What’s wrong with these people, two supposed scholars who have both written umpteen books (Leonard Sweet and Frank Viola) but seem so totally out of touch with the reality of what occurred?

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Because if they admitted and acknowledged what really happened, they’d be agreeing with and affirming Catholic teaching?

And because they don’t have any anchor, having disconnected from the One True Church founded by Jesus Christ, so any random concept that they have is equal to any other. “We’re ALL Virgin Marys!” I guess they can’t quite get away with, “We’re ALL Jesus Christ!”

 

[Carolus_Martell]

meh…it’s only someone’s opinion.

…not that I don’t understand your feelings. I’m more mindful of the unchecked heresy’s coming from the folks on our side that frost me.

 

[Carina20]

I think it’s because they have a different view of Mary. She is considered to the,“A vessel that God used to bring about His Glory.” I highly doubt that writers meant any malice by what they said. He probably just mean we are 'all Virgin Mary’s" in that we accept God’s Will for us even if it’s difficult.

 

[maltmom]

I was Protestant for 52 years. I can honestly say that I’ve never heard anyone say anything like this in any of the churches I belonged to or visited. This is the thoughts of one person. I agree with what Carina said.

 

[FCEGM]

Ok I KNOW, I’m reading a book about Jesus written by a non-Catholic, so I’m pretty much looking for trouble. BUT…in this book I’ve read (so far, won’t read any further) some incredibly enlightening things about the culture into which Jesus was born. And those things have really helped me to understand how absolutely clear it must have been to those around Him as to exactly Who and What He is. Anyway, I get to page 69:
“When we accept Christ to be born into our lives, we’re all virgin Marys.”

I’m sorry WHAT??? WHY do Protestants continuously and (seems to me) blasphemously degrade our Mother in this way? This was a kid, a young 14 year old (most likely), approached by an angel (for crying out loud!) while WIDE AWAKE, who volunteered to do what was almost unbelievable to even consider: bear the Son of God, KNOWING the infant in her womb was not a “normal” child, KNOWING that this would change her life in ways that were hugely intimidating (must have been!) We’re “all virgin Marys’”???

What’s wrong with these people, two supposed scholars who have both written umpteen books (Leonard Sweet and Frank Viola) but seem so totally out of touch with the reality of what occurred?

What’s wrong with them is that their theology can’t admit that anyone may be more holy than they are once they’ve “accepted Jesus”.

 

[peace2u2]

What’s wrong with them is that their theology can’t admit that anyone may be more holy than they are once they’ve “accepted Jesus”.

or pray to anyone but Jesus

 

[R_C]

Anyway, I get to page 69:
“When we accept Christ to be born into our lives, we’re all virgin Marys.”

I’m sorry WHAT??? What’s wrong with these people, two supposed scholars …]

What’s wrong is that they are taking an ancient Catholic teaching and distorting it. That is, they are being consistent with the basic tenet of protestantism. Let’s see if we can track the origin of the teaching to clarify it.

Recall that it was our Lord who said: “whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.” (Mt 2:50)

In the Little Office of the Blessed Virgin we find some wonderful writings referring to this mysterious passage of the Scriptures.

One by St. Augustine, Doctor of the Church:

Stretching out his hand over his disciples, the Lord Christ declared: “Here are my mother and my brothers; anyone who does the will of my Father who sent me is my brother and sister and my mother.”

I would urge you to ponder these words. Did the Virgin Mary, who believed by faith and conceived by faith, who was the chosen one from whom our Savior was born among men, who was created by Christ before Christ was created in her – did she not do the will of the Father?

Indeed the blessed Mary certainly did the Father’s will, and so it was for her a greater thing to have been Christ’s disciple than to have been his mother, and she was more blessed in her discipleship than in her motherhood.

Hers was the happiness of first bearing in her womb him whom she would obey as her master.

One by St. Ambrose, Doctor of the Church:

Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit after conceiving a son; Mary was filled before. “You are blessed,” said Elizabeth, “because you have believed”.

You too are blessed because you have heard and believed. The soul of every believer conceives and brings forth the Word of God and recognizes his works.

Let Mary’s soul be in each of you to glorify the Lord. Let her spirit be in each of you to rejoice in the Lord.

Christ has only one Mother in the flesh, but we all bring forth Christ by faith.

See, then, that this is yet another sad example of distortion of the teachings of Holy Church.

They dug a pit in my path–but they have fallen into it themselves.

 

[Chantal25]

*Never be afraid of loving the Blessed Virgin Mary too much. You can never love her more than Jesus did and If anyone does not wish to have Mary Immaculate for his mother, he will not have Christ for his brother. ~Saint Maximilian Maria Kolbe
*

Ditch this book, the author is most likely inspired by Satan the father of lie. He detested the blessed Mother because she cans defeat him easily. One tactic of him, is to introduce many truth and many wonderful message and a distorted message to guide the soul on the wrong path. We need our Blessed Mother.

 

[pocohombre]

*Never be afraid of loving the Blessed Virgin Mary too much. You can never love her more than Jesus did and If anyone does not wish to have Mary Immaculate for his mother, he will not have Christ for his brother. ~Saint Maximilian Maria Kolbe
*

Ditch this book, the author is most likely inspired by Satan the father of lie. He detested the blessed Mother because she cans defeat him easily. One tactic of him, is to introduce many truth and many wonderful message and a distorted message to guide the soul on the wrong path. We need our Blessed Mother.

Shall I call up Frank and ask what he meant by being (like) the Virgin Mary ? I mean we are to be perfect as Christ was perfect .What ??? We are to have the mind of Christ . What ??? What was the context ?

 

[InigoMontoya]

Ok I KNOW, I’m reading a book about Jesus written by a non-Catholic, so I’m pretty much looking for trouble. BUT…in this book I’ve read (so far, won’t read any further) some incredibly enlightening things about the culture into which Jesus was born. And those things have really helped me to understand how absolutely clear it must have been to those around Him as to exactly Who and What He is. Anyway, I get to page 69:
“When we accept Christ to be born into our lives, we’re all virgin Marys.”

I’m sorry WHAT??? WHY do Protestants continuously and (seems to me) blasphemously degrade our Mother in this way?

Note: This might be better suited in the Non-Catholic Religions sub-forum, unless you’re looking for specifically Catholic responses?

First off, without significant context, it’s nigh impossible to attempt to really ascertain what those authors were attempting to state.

For what it’s worth. Scott Hanh has written extensively on the difference in perspectives of Mary amongst most Protestant Christians and that of Catholics by large. I believe he even went on to describe that the conflict in views was a huge obstacle for him to overcome as well, and if I may paraphrase from distant memory, that there wasn’t a really logical way to explain it that he had.

Many Christians from Protestant Denominations or Theologies tend to struggle with the concept of Mary being more than a regular person such as us, albeit chosen by God to carry out a Glorious task. Even worse, many of the more fundamental protestant theologies which have sprung up in the last few centuries fret that the veneration of Mary has pagan or heretical roots.

Admittedly, while my family and I are very actively attending a Catholic church now, and slowly edging across that Tiber. The Catholic concept of Mary is excruciatingly difficult to grasp, all I can ask is that you have patience for us who perhaps “just don’t grasp it”…

 

[Della]

Note: This might be better suited in the Non-Catholic Religions sub-forum, unless you’re looking for specifically Catholic responses?

First off, without significant context, it’s nigh impossible to attempt to really ascertain what those authors were attempting to state.

For what it’s worth. Scott Hanh has written extensively on the difference in perspectives of Mary amongst most Protestant Christians and that of Catholics by large. I believe he even went on to describe that the conflict in views was a huge obstacle for him to overcome as well, and if I may paraphrase from distant memory, that there wasn’t a really logical way to explain it that he had.

Many Christians from Protestant Denominations or Theologies tend to struggle with the concept of Mary being more than a regular person such as us, albeit chosen by God to carry out a Glorious task. Even worse, many of the more fundamental protestant theologies which have sprung up in the last few centuries fret that the veneration of Mary has pagan or heretical roots.

Admittedly, while my family and I are very actively attending a Catholic church now, and slowly edging across that Tiber. The Catholic concept of Mary is excruciatingly difficult to grasp, all I can ask is that you have patience for us who perhaps “just don’t grasp it”…

Having come from a Pentecostal background I understand what you are saying. The thing to remember about Marian doctrines/dogma is that they are first and foremost centered in Christ, not in Mary herself. Each teaching tells us something about Christ more than it tells us about Mary, and although these teachings honor her, that is not their main purpose. After learning about these teachings and accepting them, then comes the affection for her that so many cradle Catholics have had since childhood. Having not grown up with Marian devotion/teaching, it can be hard to immerse oneself into it without first understanding just what it is and why the Church encourages it.

As to each of us becoming “little Virgin Marys”, well I can think of a lot worse things we could aspire to be. The author doesn’t have a Catholic understanding of Mary’s place within God’s plan of salvation, and so he treads too heavily into a sensitive area. If he were to be made aware of this, he probably would be surprised and saddened to think he hurt anyone’s religious sensibilities. Truly, the man doesn’t know how offensive his statement might appear to many Catholics.

 

[pocohombre]

Ok I KNOW, I’m reading a book about Jesus written by a non-Catholic, so I’m pretty much looking for trouble. BUT…in this book I’ve read (so far, won’t read any further) some incredibly enlightening things about the culture into which Jesus was born. And those things have really helped me to understand how absolutely clear it must have been to those around Him as to exactly Who and What He is. Anyway, I get to page 69:
“When we accept Christ to be born into our lives, we’re all virgin Marys.”

I’m sorry WHAT??? WHY do Protestants continuously and (seems to me) blasphemously degrade our Mother in this way? This was a kid, a young 14 year old (most likely), approached by an angel (for crying out loud!) while WIDE AWAKE, who volunteered to do what was almost unbelievable to even consider: bear the Son of God, KNOWING the infant in her womb was not a “normal” child, KNOWING that this would change her life in ways that were hugely intimidating (must have been!) We’re “all virgin Marys’”???

What’s wrong with these people, two supposed scholars who have both written umpteen books (Leonard Sweet and Frank Viola) but seem so totally out of touch with the reality of what occurred?

You have had some very good responses, particularly the last two (blessed are the peacemakers). Upon further reading that it is about accepting Christ into our lives and the comparisons to how Mary said, “Let it be done unto me…”. Perhaps the author should have put " like Virgin Mary", although it is implied. Of course there is only one Virgin Mary ,or one Abraham and one David etc. of whom we share our faith and pilgrimage. I hope you don’t mind me responding to your words on the matter. To a protestant he is not born again or regenerated at infant baptism. It usually occurs as a consenting individual . Just as Mary was not always conceived with the Christ Child ( obviously before and up to the Annunciation), so to many they are without Christ in their “hearts”. They are NOT regenerated. They are dead in their trespasses and sins .They are at enmity with God on a course to perdition. Then comes a “visitation”, not by an angel, but by the Holy Spirit Himself ! He gently yet powerfully convicts of sin, righteousness, and judgement to come. Then the invitation, “For behold” I (Jesus) stand at the door and knock and if anyone lets me in, I will come in and sup with him". Eternity hangs in the balance. Only by God’s grace do we respond and say yes come in, according to your word/promise, let your blessings be upon me. We now have the Trinity residing in us, for St. Paul says we are the temple of God. We are new creatures and ALL things become new. Our lives are indeed changed, to live and possibly die for Him . I see many of your very own words of what Mary went thru in my conversion story. Of course Mary’s was not a conversion story at the Annunciation, but of a beautiful obedience and faithful response to a divine/angelic invitation like none other. Hopefully though you can see without offense the similarities of a divine invitation, of a required response, and of a changed life (and lives) and a literal indwelling of Christ (Spirit in ours and Spirit, Soul and Body in Mary). Finally as we revere, celebrate and loudly proclaim the Annunciation and the Virgin Mary and it’s uniqueness, so should we do as to the fruits of that, the assuredness of Christ in us.

 

[pocohombre]

I think it’s because they have a different view of Mary. She is considered to the,“A vessel that God used to bring about His Glory.” I highly doubt that writers meant any malice by what they said. He probably just mean we are 'all Virgin Mary’s" in that we accept God’s Will for us even if it’s difficult.

Nicely put peacemaker .

 

[Allegra]

I don’t know how anyone could figure out what they were trying to say without reading the whole paragraph, but I doubt they were trying to be disrespectful to the Mother of God. Maybe they were trying to say that when a person becomes Baptized their sins are removed and they are like the Virgin Mary? Didn’t the author explain his reasoning any further in the paragraph you read?

 

[ellzeena]

Thank you all for your prayerful and knowledgeable responses. As Chantal suggested, I did “ditch” the book when I got to that paragraph. I’m a cradle Catholic but I spent about ten years in evangelical Christianity and what drove me out was the outright animosity (and yes, even hatred) toward Roman Catholicism. Since extremely early childhood, I have been very devoted to our Blessed Mother; in October I went to Lourdes, in April I’m going to Fatima. She stands between me and the vicious attacks of Satan that I have been undergoing since my daughter’s death. She is my “Mammon” - I earned that right at the spring in Lourdes, the right to call her that. I’m sorry for the people who condemn those who love her, our Lord gave her to us all from the cross. But nothing those two authors had to say interested me after that sentence. God bless you all.

 

[peace2u2]

She stands between me and the vicious attacks of Satan that I have been undergoing since my daughter’s death.

Dear Heavenly Father, we lift up Ellzeena into your care. We pray Lord Jesus for a hedge of protection to be built around her by your steadfast love and faithfulness and we break the assignments of any evil spirits sent against us and send them to you Lord Jesus to deal with them as You will. We pray Lord Jesus that you would remove any vicious attacks that are attacking Ellzeena and replace them with Your Love, Your Joy and Your Peace. In Jesus’ Holy Precious Name we pray thru Mary. Amen

 

[Della]

Thank you all for your prayerful and knowledgeable responses. As Chantal suggested, I did “ditch” the book when I got to that paragraph. I’m a cradle Catholic but I spent about ten years in evangelical Christianity and what drove me out was the outright animosity (and yes, even hatred) toward Roman Catholicism. Since extremely early childhood, I have been very devoted to our Blessed Mother; in October I went to Lourdes, in April I’m going to Fatima. She stands between me and the vicious attacks of Satan that I have been undergoing since my daughter’s death. She is my “Mammon” - I earned that right at the spring in Lourdes, the right to call her that. I’m sorry for the people who condemn those who love her, our Lord gave her to us all from the cross. But nothing those two authors had to say interested me after that sentence. God bless you all.

How special that you’ve been to Lourdes and to be going to Fatima. If it were permitted, I’d be envious.

I too spent many years among people who had deep-seated animosity for the Catholic Church, and so against Mary. Their zeal in this regard comes from misunderstanding and a desire to safeguard the glory of God. It’s funny in a way, because Our Lady is the safeguard of God’s glory, but I digress.

When I left that sect to become Catholic it took me a long time to “forgive” the nonsense and hostility towards the Church I’d learned during my time with them, so I understand your feelings. For me the Bible had been poisoned by their interpretation–I couldn’t read it without being haunted by the fears they had attached to the most innocent of verses.

You have my prayers, as well and my deepest sympathy for the loss of your daughter. :console: Ask St. Michael to defend you–he’s great at doing that–I can attest to it from experience. God bless you, dear Catholic sister.