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brian_custer
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most protestants have little or no regard for “Lent”
GOOD FRIDAY & LENTEN RULES MEAN NOTHING TO THEM
GOOD FRIDAY & LENTEN RULES MEAN NOTHING TO THEM
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AlNg
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OK. So Friday abstinence is observed by Catholics in at least 2 countries out of 196. But why not in the USA and other countries? And why is the communion fast so much shorter than in the Orthodox Churches?
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Augustinian
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At least some Presbyterians as well.
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lilypadrees
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That’s just it. They weren’t inside the church. They were in the parking lot with the pastor giving the person his or her ashes. I was standing across the street waiting on the bus to take me to Mass. There was a huge sign outside the church, “Drive thru. Get your ashes. Be on your way.” No readings. It was just an express line. One car would drive up.The ashes would be placed on the person’s forehead. The person would drive off. The next person would drive up and so on.lilypadrees:
Good grief. If we judged piety by how long each denomination spends in Church, Catholics would be the loosers by far.
Here is an example of what I’m talking about.
Fast and faithful: Churches offer drive-thru Ash Wednesday
Louisiana has drive-thru windows for daiquiris and beer — so why not for repentance too? That’s right, a New Orleans-area Methodist church offered its faithful “drive-thru ashes” for Ash Wednesday, the first day of the Lent holy season.
And one more.
Faithful commuters frequent Ash Wednesday drive-thru
Two priests at All Saints Episcopal Church in Pontiac offered to-go ashes in the parking lot
www.detroitnews.com
Notice the part that says,""People just rolled down their windows and we gave the traditional Ash Wednesday sign of the cross with the ashes and we said, ‘Remember you are dust, and to dust you shall return.’ "
Where are the full readings? People experiencing receiving ashes for the full time don’t understand the full impact with a “drive thru.”
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HeDa
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There are as many ways of doing things as there are protestants. My old reformed parish is actually having an Ash Wednesday service this year for the first time. There is a new pastor who is nicknamed “Liturgist” by it’s members.
A college from work said he was fasting (Wednesday - no food at all) before their prayer meeting (some kind of “house church”) not officially part of any church and I was surprised as it was right after Easter.
During the first year of teaching before I was received into the Catholic Church I was never, ever going to be Catholic because of Ash Wednesday, Good Friday and Lent and I was in a terrible mood. During the second year I was fine and “this is the way to do it”. And I have been fine ever since.
A college from work said he was fasting (Wednesday - no food at all) before their prayer meeting (some kind of “house church”) not officially part of any church and I was surprised as it was right after Easter.
During the first year of teaching before I was received into the Catholic Church I was never, ever going to be Catholic because of Ash Wednesday, Good Friday and Lent and I was in a terrible mood. During the second year I was fine and “this is the way to do it”. And I have been fine ever since.
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Xanthippe_Voorhees
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I’m well aware of what you are speaking of. My point is time spent in church has absolutely no correlation with piety. I have zero issues with this practice and would not judge anyone for it. Your being repulsed and annoyed by it is your own issue.
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Augustinian
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The people may or may not understand the readings- and the same could be said for those who actually go into church. I think you are underestimating the religious knowledge of Americans.
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BartholomewB
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I’ve been doing some googling in an attempt to answer the question I asked earlier. From what I have been able to find so far, two points emerge.
(1) No mention of the forty-day Lenten fast is found in any author earlier than Athanasius.
(2) In some of his Festal Letters Athanasius mentions a forty-day pre-Paschal fast and in others only a one-week fast. Scholars argue that the “one-week” letters must be earlier and the “forty-day” letters later. This means that the earliest possible date for any of the “forty-day” letters would be in the 330s.
Getting back to the OP’s original question, I can easily imagine that some Protestants―particularly those at the Puritan end of the spectrum―might have decided to abolish Lent as an allegedly spurious late “Romish” invention having no basis in the New Testament or even in the ante-Nicene period.
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Mary888
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I read on the internet once a Protestant asking why do we break God’s own words in the OT, Genesis chapter 9:
1 God blessed Noah and his sons and said to them, 'Breed, multiply and fill the earth.
2 Be the terror and the dread of all the animals on land and all the birds of heaven, of everything that moves on land and all the fish of the sea; they are placed in your hands.
3 Every living thing that moves will be yours to eat, no less than the foliage of the plants. I give you everything,
4 with this exception: you must not eat flesh with life, that is to say blood, in it."
And they asked us why do we abstain from food God never said to abstain from (like when we fast).
So this is why they eat meat because they believe fasting is invented by the Church. However if they want to respect Genesis 9 they must always also eat kosher or halal meat.
1 God blessed Noah and his sons and said to them, 'Breed, multiply and fill the earth.
2 Be the terror and the dread of all the animals on land and all the birds of heaven, of everything that moves on land and all the fish of the sea; they are placed in your hands.
3 Every living thing that moves will be yours to eat, no less than the foliage of the plants. I give you everything,
4 with this exception: you must not eat flesh with life, that is to say blood, in it."
And they asked us why do we abstain from food God never said to abstain from (like when we fast).
So this is why they eat meat because they believe fasting is invented by the Church. However if they want to respect Genesis 9 they must always also eat kosher or halal meat.
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lilypadrees
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I’m sorry you feel that way, Xanthippe_Voorhees. But no, I am not repulsed by it nor annoyed, but merely dismayed, because it seems disrespectful to just go thru a “drive thru” rather than have it done during a reverent church service.
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lilypadrees
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No, not underestimating the religious understanding of Americans or anyone else. But when a church hasn’t done it before, and this one hadn’t, it concerns me as to whether they understand it or not. I’m sorry, but I take the reception of ashes and the observance of Lent very seriously. Do Protestants know that it’s more than receiving ashes on their foreheads? That Lent isn’t just one day a year? These didn’t seem to.lilypadrees:
The people may or may not understand the readings- and the same could be said for those who actually go into church. I think you are underestimating the religious knowledge of Americans.
The Bible readings are given when and if they go to an evening service on Ash Wednesday. But they aren’t given with the drive thru ashes. Not only have I witnessed this on the way to Mass on Ash Wednesday, I also have friends who attend the Methodist church this was done at. I asked them questions after seeing it done the first year. They now have a new pastor who has shaken things up since her arrival there. So I don’t know if she’ll continue the practice or not.
EDIT: It used to be that Protestant churches didn’t observe Lent at all even on Ash Wednesday. Mama was Methodist like her mother. And they never observed Lent at all. The CoC, my maternal grandfather’s church never observed it. It seems to be only recently that Protestants, apart from Lutherans, have made any attempt at all on Ash Wednesday.
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7_Sorrows
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I believe they offered this in the city I used to live in because I do remember reading about the drive thru to-go ashes before.
So I understand what you are saying.
So I understand what you are saying.
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lilypadrees
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Thank you, 7_Sorrows. I appreciate it.
I guess it’s going to be the new norm.
I guess it’s going to be the new norm.
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TK421
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That person has one of the strangest arguments I’ve ever seen.
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ComplineSanFran
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Do you know about the “Ashes to Go” movement? Clergy head out to train stations, busy intersections, downtown areas of cities, and offer ashes to anyone who seeks them. It has been happening for several years now. Pan-denominational.
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steido01
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First off, you might be better off asking why Roman Catholics don’t eat meat during Lent. If you can’t give a sound defense of the practice, then you have no business expecting others to do so.
Secondly, what’s a “Protestant?” You’ll need to be specific if you want a worthwhile answer.
You’ll have to ask others for their reasons, but I can tell you why Lutherans observe Lent, and why some Lutherans fast while others don’t. The simple answer: because it’s not required.
The long answer starts with Martin Luther’s 95 Theses, which began with a humdinger:
- “When our Lord and Master Jesus Christ said “Repent,” he intended that the entire life of believers should be repentance.”
For some Lutherans, that means 40 days of fasting from certain foods or pleasurable activities as a voluntary, personal devotion and public witness to Christ. There are other historical traditions that mark Lent as a special repentant time, too. Most Lutheran churches refrain from saying “Alleluia” during the season, with some even organizing a special “farewell service" to that word. The colors on the altar and the pastor’s stole usually switch to purple. We receive ashes on our foreheads on Ash Wednesday to remind us of our sin (and when we wash them off, we’ll remember how Baptism makes us clean!).
Ashes, fasting and other practices can be helpful reminders that it’s Jesus –and no amount of our fasting or works– that saves us. In the Augsburg Confession, one of Lutheranism’s founding documents, it’s stated:
- “We do not condemn fasting in itself… But, at the same time, men are warned that such observances do not justify before God, and that in such things it should not be made sin if they be omitted without offense.”
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steido01
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Continued from previous…
So Lutherans are free to fast, or not. These actions are good when they are used as reminders to live repentant lives. They are bad when they are used as “measurements” for living repentant lives. Lutherans don’t measure “repentance” by our actions; we understand repentance not as something we do, but as something we believe. Changing our actions is (simply) the natural fruit of repentance, but real repentance is when our hearts are changed. That’s not something we do on our own – that’s the work of the Holy Spirit.
Repentance is God helping us to see our sin, and God lifting us up to see our Savior – to see the Man put on the Cross because of our sins, yet to know that He was put on the Cross for the forgiveness of our sins.
Just as the Cross represents more than just sin and death in that it reminds us of forgiveness and new life, Lent is a celebration of our King’s triumph over death forever! That ‘Good News’ is worth repeating every day of our lives in our thoughts, words and actions. So fasting (from whatever) isn’t something to do only during Lent, but all the time and with joy!
So Lutherans are free to fast, or not. These actions are good when they are used as reminders to live repentant lives. They are bad when they are used as “measurements” for living repentant lives. Lutherans don’t measure “repentance” by our actions; we understand repentance not as something we do, but as something we believe. Changing our actions is (simply) the natural fruit of repentance, but real repentance is when our hearts are changed. That’s not something we do on our own – that’s the work of the Holy Spirit.
Repentance is God helping us to see our sin, and God lifting us up to see our Savior – to see the Man put on the Cross because of our sins, yet to know that He was put on the Cross for the forgiveness of our sins.
Just as the Cross represents more than just sin and death in that it reminds us of forgiveness and new life, Lent is a celebration of our King’s triumph over death forever! That ‘Good News’ is worth repeating every day of our lives in our thoughts, words and actions. So fasting (from whatever) isn’t something to do only during Lent, but all the time and with joy!
They do?
What do they deserve, exactly?
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steido01
Guest
What a silly person. That’s when you toss Acts 10:13 to them.
Or this video, which addresses tasty animals at about 1:07.
Or this video, which addresses tasty animals at about 1:07.
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otjm
Guest
I find the comment that you do not mean to offend to be disingenuous.
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ComplineSanFran
Guest
Thank you for bringing this to light. The comment AND the statement afterwards were totally inappropriate.
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